cm funk Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 I've been thinking about this lately with the sad state that Flair is in, and Hogan who's practically crippled about to put on a farce of a match with Sting. Also reading the Observer from last week with Dave's report of the Japan quake benefit show, saying seeing Kobashi out there was "sad" and he was "shaking, with a blank look in his eyes" And then I think about one of my favorite wrestlers of all-time, Terry Funk, who has retired and un-retired several times, and really has no business being in the ring in 2011, yet when I read that he has a match coming up in a couple of weeks I have no problem with it. I mean, Terry Funk is probably in no better shape than any of these other guys....he's certifiably crazy, he had to sell his ranch in Texas a few years back, his knees are completely fucked....... Is it just that he stays out of the spotlight and doesn't make an ass out of himself like some other guys do? Is it just because he's from a different generation? I know lots of people here love Jerry Lawler, who seems to be in great shape considering the miles he's put on his body......but shouldn't he hang it up soon too? I don't know....what is the cutoff point where we no longer want to see these guys in the ring? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 You should hang it up *before* it's getting pathetic. Which, in the case of Flair or Hogan, was a long long time ago. I had no idea Funk ha to sell his ranch. That's very sad, I thought he was pretty much set and only did wrestling shows because he was batshit crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 I think when you're old enough to be a grandparent of incoming 18 year old rookie wrestlers is a good time to hang it up. I think on a personal level, when you're just doing it for the paycheck is the time to get out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 I could be dead wrong here, but I thought Funk sold his ranch because it was too much work to keep up and it was hardly worth the money and effort to do so. Not that he was so broke he had no choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smkelly Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 what is the cutoff point where we no longer want to see these guys in the ring?It varies in my opinion. Kobashi had to reinvent himself so he could continue wrestling. I think after the knee operations of the century is when he should have called it quits. His match against Misawa in '03 was a telling sign that his career was coming to a close. He should have retired permanently after cancer. He came back for a while, a complete 360 change from only a decade prior. Then his elbow went out on him. His body simply cannot function the way it used to. It doesn't matter how much time he spends in the gym or how many pills he takes to subdue the pain he is in, you can't fix something that is broken. I guess when a wrestler looks back at his career and sees long periods of inactivity due to injury and/or illness is a good starting point when to consider hanging 'em up. But stepping into that reality is a different thing altogether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Don't really know if there's a good catch all blanket answer to the original question. Things vary so much from case to case. Still doing matches when you can longer go like you once could isn't so bad if it's say opening match on a show or a special legends match type deal or on some smaller indy card whear exspectations aren't so high. When you're trying to main event big shows in front of several thousand ppl and being watched by millions on tv and are taking up a valuable spot younger/better wrestlers could fill that's a bit diffrent. Wrestlers work hurt, fight through pain and come back from injuries, many times earlier then they should all the time. Just kind of an accepted part of wrestling. When it gets to the point whear you need massive amounts of drugs to function normally or you start risking permanent significant life time damage to your health then yeah maybe take a step back/away. I could be dead wrong here, but I thought Funk sold his ranch because it was too much work to keep up and it was hardly worth the money and effort to do so. Not that he was so broke he had no choice. Yeah, that's the story I recall as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Who has ever hung it up at the "right time" and exited gracefully, though? Jack Brisco? Savage? Race, I guess, although his last few years in the ring were nothing to write home about. It's a pretty short list. It seems like almost all the all-time greats have put in time in the ring past the age of 50 (besides those who's careers were cut short due to serious injury or death). I can remember the Sheik, Kowalski, Bobo and others who were stars from the 50s still wrestling in the early-90s. I mean, if guys like Funk, Valentine, and others still want to go at the local high school, community center, or whatever, because they still love to perform, I'm fine with that. It sucks if they are only doing it to pay the bills. I don't know what Funk and Valentine's financial situations are like. Flair definitely needs the money, but he seems to still love wrestling, even if, based on his appearance and physical condition, he should not be in the ring on national TV in 2011. But I think he would still be doing this even if he didn't have 3 or 4 alimony payments a month. (like his title reigns, I've lost count of Ric's marriages ) Ideally, all our heroes, be it wrestlers, football players, rock stars, movie stars, etc., would call it a career before they begin to tarnish their legacies. Realistically, they rarely do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankensteiner Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 I think when you're old enough to be a grandparent of incoming 18 year old rookie wrestlers is a good time to hang it up. I think on a personal level, when you're just doing it for the paycheck is the time to get out. Wait, what? Who's not in it for the paycheck? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 No one other than some naive kids. What I mean is when the only reason you're still out there is the paycheck like with Flair and Hogan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Hogan I fully buy is only doing it for the money at this point. Flair I think would still want to keep going even if he didn't have like 10 ex wives and a bajillion in debt. I forget the exact quote or whear it's from but I recall Flair saying in some interview something along the lines of wanting to keep wrestling until he "turns to dust and has to be swept away" and I kinda believe him. He's been pretty public about how he never wanted his WWE retirement to begin with and that it was something they kinda forced/talked him into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted September 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 I think Flair basically said he wants to die in the ring. He obviously needs the money, and would be hustling for it even if he didn't, but yeah...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smkelly Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Hogan I fully buy is only doing it for the money at this point. Flair I think would still want to keep going even if he didn't have like 10 ex wives and a bajillion in debt. I forget the exact quote or whear it's from but I recall Flair saying in some interview something along the lines of wanting to keep wrestling until he "turns to dust and has to be swept away" and I kinda believe him. He's been pretty public about how he never wanted his WWE retirement to begin with and that it was something they kinda forced/talked him into.WTF? Really? I've never heard that but it does make sense. The WWE routinely dump guys who they know are about to collapse at any given moment, even champions and bigger stars. And if it is true, and not just another Everyone Holds Me Back Ric Flair stories, then holy crap. Mostly because the death of Ric Flair will probably end up in a TNA ring, probably a non-televised event too. I mean, at least we don't have to guess whether he is selling or not, he's old, of course it hurts. I wish someone would do an intervention on some of these guys. But I guess there are some dudes who cannot quit. It's all they know. It just sucks watching some of these guys get so fucking old and falling apart before our eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artDDP Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Hogan I fully buy is only doing it for the money at this point. Flair I think would still want to keep going even if he didn't have like 10 ex wives and a bajillion in debt. I forget the exact quote or whear it's from but I recall Flair saying in some interview something along the lines of wanting to keep wrestling until he "turns to dust and has to be swept away" and I kinda believe him. He's been pretty public about how he never wanted his WWE retirement to begin with and that it was something they kinda forced/talked him into.WTF? Really? I've never heard that but it does make sense. The WWE routinely dump guys who they know are about to collapse at any given moment, even champions and bigger stars. And if it is true, and not just another Everyone Holds Me Back Ric Flair stories, then holy crap. Mostly because the death of Ric Flair will probably end up in a TNA ring, probably a non-televised event too. I mean, at least we don't have to guess whether he is selling or not, he's old, of course it hurts. I wish someone would do an intervention on some of these guys. But I guess there are some dudes who cannot quit. It's all they know. It just sucks watching some of these guys get so fucking old and falling apart before our eyes. I read that Flair quote a while back and I felt sort of weird for being a fan for so long. He literally said he will keep doing it until he has to be swept into a trash bin and I'm almost 100% certain he meant it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 I always thought All Japan had it right by featuring the legends in curtain jerker matches to give them a paycheck, let the fans see thier guys and keep them away from the main event. I have no problem with wrestlers doing nostalgia appearances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 I could be dead wrong here, but I thought Funk sold his ranch because it was too much work to keep up and it was hardly worth the money and effort to do so. Not that he was so broke he had no choice. Yeah, that's the story I recall as well. Thanks for the clarification. I remember hearing the same story now that you mention it. Agree with Will on All Japan old policy about older wrestlers doing comedy matches. It was a nice way to still feature the legends/guys from the previous generations, although it could be painfull to watch at times. I'm not sure I would want to see Flair work comedy matches undercard until he gets to liquid state. Well, one could argue Flair did work comedy matches for a whole decade now... Major injuries or concussions are the main reasons wrestler retire before it's getting pathetic. Guys like Steamboat or Rude we always keep a nice picture of them because we never saw them oer the hill. Hell, Steamboat made a successful comeback at 50 past. Other times, getting back in the ring is just a terrible idea : cf Bret Hart, just sad to watch him not able to do anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 post-stroke Bret is still in better shape than Flair, Hogan, or even Nash for that matter. The sad truth is most wrestlers are junkies for the pop and won't quit unless they have a doctor tell them "one more match might kill you" like Edge had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 post-stroke Bret is still in better shape than Flair, Hogan, or even Nash for that matter. Well, he oughta be, being younger than these guys and having stopped working 11 years ago. Still, Bret these days looks pretty sad for a guy his age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainmakerrtv Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Bockwinkel seemed to do a good job of checking out. He kept going for a good long time, but I think he was still having solid matches at the end, he didn't look like he was half crippled, has only made extremely rare appearances in the ring since his retirement, and overall seems fairly content with his lot these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khawk20 Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Bockwinkel seemed to do a good job of checking out. He kept going for a good long time, but I think he was still having solid matches at the end, he didn't look like he was half crippled, has only made extremely rare appearances in the ring since his retirement, and overall seems fairly content with his lot these days. Yeah. Bock ended his AWA run in the first week of August 1987, went to Japan for a few weeks at the end of that month, then segued over to the WWF to do colour commentary for a bit. After Japan, he was basically done in the ring except for the odd special match and his stint as WCW Commissioner. In Bock's case, he could still go when he quit, which is rare in the sense that he was having really good matches only a couple of months before he stopped wrestling full-time. He never got to the point where people were actively talking like he should retire because he looked bad in the ring, or out of shape. He was an anomaly, though. The list of mid-to-late 50-year-old wrestlers that retired from the ring at that point and still looked good is likely a pretty short one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 If Flair has retired in 2008, would people look back and say his timing was right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 If Flair has retired in 2008, would people look back and say his timing was right? Some would say it was a good ten year overdue at this point. To me Flair already looked sad during the infamous "great" match with Taker. I've seen several big WWE match, and Flair was just old and a sad shelf of his already old self of the mid-90's. I would have been fine with Flair retiring after WCW went down. Quite frankly, I would have been glad to see him go to WWF in 98, have this big feud with Austin and retire. That would have been perfect. Instead we got crazy-ass Flair going to the nuthouse, Asya and Little Naich (well, that was actually entertaining). Some would have been fine with Flair retiring after the 1996 run. Some would have been fine with Flair retiring after his WWF stint, as he wasn't the same when he came back in 1993. 2008 was awfully late for Flair to retire. But in retrospect, as sad as he looked during his WWE stint, it's nothing compared to what he's showed last week. He was dying out there. I morbidly can't wait for Hogan vs Sting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted September 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 I don't know, I thought Flair was pretty awesome for almost all of his WWE run. He should have retired when he retired, or at least not gone to TNA of all places. Dude could have had his "legendary ambassador" role in the company, steady paychecks, and you know they would have eventually brought him back for television, which would probably lead to another match or two........he didn't need to slum it like he has Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Morris Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Where it seems to be a bigger issue is that the guys who continued wrestling past their primes, and did so on a regular basis, are the ones clearly running out of steam. Compare that to those who step away for some time, then return... they tend to be fresher. With Flair, he just kept on going. The breaks that he had weren't really by his choice. Had Flair taken time off on his own accord, then returned for brief periods or appearances, he probably would have done a better job of extending his career. Instead, he's out there too much and a lot of people can observe just how bad he looks. Compare that to Terry Funk, who seems to be "in and out" of the business, returning for short periods or brief appearance before leaving again. People don't really notice it that much not just because it's a novelty act, but because he's gone about as quickly as he returned, you don't have a ton of matches and appearances to notice that he's not the same wrestler he used to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 I don't know, I thought Flair was pretty awesome for almost all of his WWE run. He should have retired when he retired, or at least not gone to TNA of all places. Dude could have had his "legendary ambassador" role in the company, steady paychecks, and you know they would have eventually brought him back for television, which would probably lead to another match or two........he didn't need to slum it like he has Flair was possibly the worst wrestler in the World in 03/04. Just unbelievably bad, botching virtually every spot that required athleticism, visibly screaming spots on camera in every match, getting blown up ten seconds into an exchange, et. Just terrible. Garbage match worker Flair was entertaining. I would have had no problem seeing Flair work as Onita starting around 96/97 when his skills were clearly fading fast and going forward from there. With Flair 08 was such a strong send off by wrestling standards that a lot of his biggest fanboys (including people who defended him during stints where calling him "good" required a massive stretch) are now offended by his presence as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted September 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Yeah, that's a great point. One of my favorite things about Funk was that he'd just be completely off the map at times, and then he'd show up and it was like, "OH SHIT, IT'S TERRY FUNK!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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