jdw Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 What about every babyface that was friends with Hulk Hogan after Orndorff and Andre turned on him? I mean, Hogan should have developed a serious reputation as an asshole after everything that went down with those guys, yet dudes like Randy Savage still trusted Hogan afterwards. I mean, of course Hogan lusted over Elizabeth, he had an established track record of selfish behavior and being a poor friend. It's hard to feel bad for Savage, he should have known what he was getting into. We have a whole thread on what a selfish asshole Hulk was to Orndorff, Andre and Savage which made their turning on him totally warranted. No doubt Savage should have seen it coming after Mr. Wonderful and The Giant got screwed over. But Savage never could have guessed that the previously asexual Hogan would be lusting after Mrs. Macho. For all the skunky things Hogan did up to that point, trying to steal someone else's wife was a line he'd never crossed before. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smkelly Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Has anyone ever shot on Hogan for some of the crap he pulled on his co-workers and "friends"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Well, there was the Money Inc Finish: they simply would walk out of matches and keep the belt. Perhaps one of the biggest regular bullshit finishes in wrestling history. So I'm perfectly fine with it *ever* getting announced that if they walked out, they would lose the title. See I fucking hate this WWF / Vince logic. The logic which goes: basically that if it's something the fans want to see it is somehow morally justified. The rules are the rules. If a heel team takes advantage of them by walking out, then they've found a loophole to exploit. If Money Inc had used that loophole too many times, then Jack Tunney should have made an announcement BEFORE the match. Make the match a gimmick match - falls count anywhere, lumberjack or cage. This just came off to me as pandering to Hogan because he was above the rules, and like Loss, it really pissed me off as an 11-year old back in 1993 and it still pisses me off now. Also, after that match, Hogan and Beefcake STEAL IRS's briefcase and start giving DiBiase's money out to the fans. Brilliant role models for the kids. Hogan from about 1993 till that Tower of Doom match in 1996 might just be my least favourite character in wrestling of all time. It's this sort of bullshit that made me hate him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 See I fucking hate this WWF / Vince logic. The logic which goes: basically that if it's something the fans want to see it is somehow morally justified. The rules are the rules. If a heel team takes advantage of them by walking out, then they've found a loophole to exploit. By that logic, every title match where a heel is defending and can't lose the title via COR should go like this: 1. bell rings 2. heel *instantly* hops out of the ring and goes back to the locker room 3. ref counts heel out 4. babyface wins via COR 5. heel keeps title 6. Underpant Gnomes 7. Fans LOVE IT~! Well... except that #7 is a problem even the Underpant Gnomes would have a tough time overcoming. But there is Logic there for the Heel to exploit the rules to keep the title. See, that's the problem with the Money Inc Finish. If Money Inc were simply exploiting the loop hole, they would do it at the start rather than risk their title over the course of 10+ minutes. So no... it's not smart. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 What about Lawler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteF3 Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 See, that's the problem with the Money Inc Finish. If Money Inc were simply exploiting the loop hole, they would do it at the start rather than risk their title over the course of 10+ minutes. So no... it's not smart. Or just haul off and slug the referee during the pre-match frisk (not that the WWF was interested in frisks or instructions by that point). One potential way around the loophole is to issue a new rule interpretation: a deliberate attempt to leave the ring area (and there is no question that what Money Inc. was doing was deliberate) would be construed as a submission. Therefore, a title change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 I agree with that. There never was much logic in the punching of the refs either, or the rule of tossing someone over the top rope. Wrestling basically needed their fans to be as stupid as the bookers. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 I never got why a count–out wouldn't be a title change in wrestling internal logic anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainmakerrtv Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 I never got why a count–out wouldn't be a title change in wrestling internal logic anyway. It did for Rose and Summers, but that was only for certain types of countouts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 I never got why a count–out wouldn't be a title change in wrestling internal logic anyway.Wasn't that due to a screw job in the thirties? Some guy bit himself tricking a ref into DQing Strangler Lewis? Sting is not dumb. Sting tried to see the best in people, even if he knew it would bite him in the ass. I think everybody has a friend or family member that is an unbearable shit stain. But you love them and you hope against your better judgment that maybe this time they have changed. That's why Sting would forgive Lex over and over. You really have to contort logic to think Hogan was the bad guy against Savage, Andre or Orndorff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 A number of us walked through why Hogan did wrong by Savage, Andre and Orndorff. No contort logic at all. Hulk was a very bad friend. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Again I ask what about Lawler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Evans Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Again I ask what about Lawler Well he did have his own son turn on him in 1998 by calling Stacy basically a whore at the time. Plus you have the numerous turns by Austin Idol, Tommy Rich, Dutch and of course Bill Dundee. Didn't Bam Bam and Brody also betray Lawler? Oh and Kenny D too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cox Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 I agree with that. There never was much logic in the punching of the refs either, or the rule of tossing someone over the top rope. Wrestling basically needed their fans to be as stupid as the bookers. John One spot that was pointed out to me as a kid by one of my uncles, which became one of those things that I noticed in every tag match afterwards... How come the referee always needs to see the babyface make the tag with his own two eyes, even forcing guys who have made a clean tag out of the ring because he didn't see it, but always accepts that heels are making honest tags behind his back just because he hears a clapping sound behind him? Aren't the heels the ones far more likely to lie about something like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Totally agree on that. The spot was best done when the heels used the spot early, and then later the babyfaces would do it as a payback. Fans ate it up, especially if you had good/smart heel "on the apron" and/or a manager sell the crap out of the babyfaces cheating. I suspect you'll see the MX on occasion pull that spot out with Jimmy stooging the hell out of it, with the ref slapping his hands together saying he heard the tag. But yeah... the standard cheating spot was great for heel heat, but was one of many things that made the refs look like idiots. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 I agree with that. There never was much logic in the punching of the refs either, or the rule of tossing someone over the top rope. Wrestling basically needed their fans to be as stupid as the bookers. John One spot that was pointed out to me as a kid by one of my uncles, which became one of those things that I noticed in every tag match afterwards... How come the referee always needs to see the babyface make the tag with his own two eyes, even forcing guys who have made a clean tag out of the ring because he didn't see it, but always accepts that heels are making honest tags behind his back just because he hears a clapping sound behind him? Aren't the heels the ones far more likely to lie about something like that? The best explanation I've seen is that since it happens with the heels dominating, the ref feels it doesn't really affect the integrity of the match since they're just doing it to be dicks. The babyfaces, however, are going for the hot tag, which is a major change in the direction of the match, so he has to witness the tag himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Again I ask what about Lawler Well he did have his own son turn on him in 1998 by calling Stacy basically a whore at the time. Plus you have the numerous turns by Austin Idol, Tommy Rich, Dutch and of course Bill Dundee. Didn't Bam Bam and Brody also betray Lawler? Oh and Kenny D too. Let us not forget Savage, Valiant, Dream Machine, Koko, Kevin Sullivan, LeDuc, and I'm sure others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 I agree with that. There never was much logic in the punching of the refs either, or the rule of tossing someone over the top rope. Wrestling basically needed their fans to be as stupid as the bookers. John One spot that was pointed out to me as a kid by one of my uncles, which became one of those things that I noticed in every tag match afterwards... How come the referee always needs to see the babyface make the tag with his own two eyes, even forcing guys who have made a clean tag out of the ring because he didn't see it, but always accepts that heels are making honest tags behind his back just because he hears a clapping sound behind him? Aren't the heels the ones far more likely to lie about something like that? The best explanation I've seen is that since it happens with the heels dominating, the ref feels it doesn't really affect the integrity of the match since they're just doing it to be dicks. The babyfaces, however, are going for the hot tag, which is a major change in the direction of the match, so he has to witness the tag himself. That's what I always thought about this. Make sense than when you are in control of the match and you got your opponent down and beat up, you can make a tag without much problem, so even if the ref doesn't see every tag, it's not such a big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 A number of us walked through why Hogan did wrong by Savage, Andre and Orndorff. No contort logic at all. Hulk was a very bad friend. John Yeah but none of the explanations worked. It is usually Hogan dared defend himself with a chair after Savage used a chainsaw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JazeUSA Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 ANYTHING Eric Watt's ever did was stupid! & how about the ''Shockmasters'' Debut? LMFAOO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smkelly Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Yeah, Shockmaster is up there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCampbell Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 I tried to make a post last night, but got the IPS driver error. I think Lawler may take the cake for the most stupid thing a babyface could do, when he trusted fucking ANDY KAUFMAN to team with him against Jimmy Hart's boys. Yeah, the guy whose neck that he broke, and who Andy swore up and down that he would destroy is just going to let bygones be bygones because he and Hart made a little miscue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 Lawler teaming with Andy made no sense but I'll be damned if Andy's celebration with Jimmy Hart after he turns back heel doesn't kill me every time. I love that angle so much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 How many times did Lawler turn? Because if you want to get into the logic behind pro-wrestling a guy who turns back and forth a lot doesn't make a lot of sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 A number of us walked through why Hogan did wrong by Savage, Andre and Orndorff. No contort logic at all. Hulk was a very bad friend. John Yeah but none of the explanations worked. It is usually Hogan dared defend himself with a chair after Savage used a chainsaw. In the case of Savage, it was Hulk trying to bang and steal Macho's wife. Macho was completely justified to get pissed off: most guys don't take kindly to their best friend trying to put the moves on their woman. That is... unless Macho and Liz had an open marriage, and Macho was cool with Hulk having a taste. But I don't think there's any evidence that was the case. Now come on, Vic. If Jerry from these boards started putting the moves on saintly Mrs. Dr. Rev, you'd have a problem with that. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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