Ring of Honor Wrestling

[Zoo Enthusiast]

Apparently Jeff Cobb has signed with ROH.  

[Migs]

Jay Lethal is not yet announced for the Nashville show and not on the talent list for the Atlanta TV taping, for whatever that's worth.

[TonyPulis'Cap]

On 7/4/2018 at 9:57 PM, Migs said:

Yeah, I think Castle's run was the right move; there's no way they could have predicted him getting hurt this being bad and being limited. Particularly given the constraints, he ended up having pretty solid run and proved he's capable of working an ROH main event. I'm not really sure what the direction is for Lethal, but they clearly think (and I agree) that the shows are better with the title adding heat to a non-Bullet Club match. I guess it would be interesting to see them give Taven a crack at a PPV main event, but I think you'd need something really strong on the undercard to prop that up.

I agree, I thought Castle's run was solid and he brought a different and fun vibe to how we've typically been conditioned to expect the ROH Champion to be. In the end injuries derailed him, but I think he'll be positioned strongly when he comes back.

Lethal may not be an earth shattering choice, but I think he's seen as a safe pair of hands, and actually, if you look at the shows in 2018 - and I've pretty much watched all of them, incl the TV, Lethal has been the most consistent singles guy in the company, putting on good to great matches every time he goes out there.

Echoing your thoughts, it would be interesting to see if they would give Taven a shot at being a PPV main eventer in a singles match or even dare I say putting him over. Before this year I wasn't really a fan of him or the Kingdom but they've won me over this year. Taven is another guy who has had a really impressive year if you look across all the shows and I think could be close to breaking through.  

[Memphis Mark]

Ok. Punishment Martinez has left ROH for NXT . He drops the TV belt to Jeff Cobb. So  ROH replaces Martinez with Cobb. What a upgrade   Plus Willie Mack and Luchasaurus  worked the TV taping  last night . Hopefully is is the start of ROH rebuilding their  roster.

[Zoo Enthusiast]

Yeah that is a pretty big improvement all around.

[Migs]

I think Martinez is solid, but ROH was never going to book him correctly - they constantly make the big monster try to wrestle these long, ROH-style matches. Never totally works (same with Dijak, for example), and he'll be way better off in NXT. I'm not exactly sure how Cobb will fit in, but I like his odds better than Martinez.

Looks like the direction for Final Battle is Lethal vs. Taven, which is the right decision - at some point they've pushed Taven hard enough that they just need to take a shot with him (especially if they don't want to put the top belt on a Bullet Club guy at the moment). And I LOVED the purple belt he debuted. Can't say it's my first choice to main event the show, but I get why they're booking around the Bullet Club guys. 

[Memphis Mark]

6 hours ago, Migs said:

I think Martinez is solid, but ROH was never going to book him correctly - they constantly make the big monster try to wrestle these long, ROH-style matches. Never totally works (same with Dijak, for example), and he'll be way better off in NXT. I'm not exactly sure how Cobb will fit in, but I like his odds better than Martinez.

Looks like the direction for Final Battle is Lethal vs. Taven, which is the right decision - at some point they've pushed Taven hard enough that they just need to take a shot with him (especially if they don't want to put the top belt on a Bullet Club guy at the moment). And I LOVED the purple belt he debuted. Can't say it's my first choice to main event the show, but I get why they're booking around the Bullet Club guys. 

 Cobb will be great .  He is a legit  wrestler who the ROH fans respect . Cobb , if booked correctly  , has the potential to be  a big money draw  . 

 Martinez  was all big moves that are designed to pop the crowd .  Just a poor fit for ROH .  However , he should fit right into the WWE mold.

 

 Now that Cobb is on board  , ROH needs to bring in some people that can work with him  . Willie Mack , WALTER ,  Harry Smith  or Tim Thatcher  would all be solid choices. I am not going to hold my breath because  wheels of the Sinclair era  ROH move at a snail's  pace.

[Memphis Mark]

Tracy Williams has left WWN/ Evolve and is headed to ROH . Nice add by the promotion. Now that have Cobb and Williams they need to add 4 to 6 more new pieces . Hopefully Williie Mack will be the mystery partner in Phiily . Still new a couple of more singles wrestlers and a tag team to work with the Briscoes.

[Zoo Enthusiast]

That’s another promising addition for them.

[Memphis Mark]

Does anyone know the inside story on the recent developments in ROH.  Some things are really changing  for the better.

In the past year or so ROH lost the services Roderick Strong , Kyle O 'Reilly  , Bobby Fish , Adam Cole , Hanson , Ray Rowe , Mike Bennett , Lio Rush , Donovan Dijack , ACH , Matt Sydal , Moose   and Michael Elgin . Recently Alex Shelly and Punishment  left the company. Most went to NXT and a few were unhappy and were either  quit  the company or were let go by management. I don't know all the details and really and am  not that  interested in the backstory.

However ROH made very little effort to replace anyone.  The company seemed determined to replace the mass exodus of talent via their training camp system. This must have been a cheap fix , because that is the only reason  to go that route . The recent training camps produced Flip Gordon and TK O 'Ryan . These two have potential to draw money down the line.

The only vets added were  Scorpio Sky and  Chuck Taylor , solid choices. However Taylor is over but is only booked part time. I think Chuck Taylor should be on every ROH , unless he is touring  with NJPW . Taylor gives the fans their money's worth every time out.

A group of us drove up from Memphis to Nashville for a ROH show last winter. We were all shocked by how weak the under card talent was for this show.   Now the houses have starting falling .  The Las Vegas double shot , Baltimore and the last UK tour did not draw that well .

Now out of the blue everything is changing .  Jeff Cobb is a regular . The company has booked Tracy Williams, Andrew Everett , Colin Delaney , PJ Black and Luchasarus  . Willie Mack worked a one shot. Rumors of Aries returning . Thunder Rosa , Hollidead and Madison Rayne  are working some shows. The women's division has mainly been the wives and girlfriends of the male talent. Some female talents from the training camps were used to fill in the cards .

 I wonder if Delirious and Greg the Office Boy are still running   the show. Has Joe Koff or SBGI corporate stepped in an effort to stop the attendance decline and talent drain ? Of course ROH is going to lose talent to the WWE . That said you have to find replacements that will maintain and growth the business. You cannot replace Roderick Strong , Adam Cole , Bobby Fish , Kyle O' Reilly or War machine with the Boys, The Dawgs , Cheeseburger and the   the Horror King .

 Delirious has had a long run as the ROH booker . IMOO ,  the lizard man has run his course. I cannot name one single hot story line heading into Final Battle.  time to give the book to  someone  else . Christopher Daniels  and Dave Lagana or two names that might be an improvement .

 

 

[rovert]

You kind of answered your own question, Memphis Mark. Delirious lives in 10 years ago - Sumie Sakai being WOH Champion for example. Joe Koff views him as a son and won't replace him.

Departure wise obviously money and the need to further career progression comes into it. Especially when wrestlers start a family. But Delirious is notoriously hard to get a hold of even during shows due to his personal habits which just leads to low talent morale especially when the booking sucks. 

 

[sek69]

During shows too? Does he lock himself in the bathroom or something? 

[Migs]

They've also done somewhat minimal work to build the undercard guys. They keep doing these shows where they bring in New Japan or CMLL or UK talent, and while it can make for a fun individual show, it means a lot of the regular roster doesn't even make these shows. And that keeps them from developing any momentum, and they haven't become meaningful talent. They've become incredibly dependent on the Elite guys and New Japan to draw - if they lose the Bucks and Cody, the bottom could fall out very quickly.

[Memphis Mark]

 It

33 minutes ago, Migs said:

They've also done somewhat minimal work to build the undercard guys. They keep doing these shows where they bring in New Japan or CMLL or UK talent, and while it can make for a fun individual show, it means a lot of the regular roster doesn't even make these shows. And that keeps them from developing any momentum, and they haven't become meaningful talent. They've become incredibly dependent on the Elite guys and New Japan to draw - if they lose the Bucks and Cody, the bottom could fall out very quickly.

 They really don't have  a lot of talent to develop . Adam Page and  Matt Taven  were the last two guys that were developed  by the company . The only two that are young  and have real upside  are Gordon and  O " Ryan . The others just don't have it . It really should not be this way . There is a large talent pool to draw . You can go to SMV or Highspots  and find at least 25 to 30 young talents  ROH could sign and develop . There is  a lot of indy work , so guys are not going to pay ROH to try out and  with no promise of a job. They really should not have to pay a fee to go on a job interview.

The company should have identified and locked up young talents a year ago. Just a few names  that are out there : Pat Monix , Ace Romero , Ace Austin , Connnor Claxton , Air Wolf , Gunner Miller , Mat Fitchett , Steve Manders , Clayton Gaines , Myron Reed Davey Vega ,   and many more. There is  talent all over the West Coast , Texas , UK , etc .  Just have a free  camp invite 10 to 15 guys . If you get 2 or 3 out of  a camp that can work you more than made your money back.

 

 

[Memphis Mark]

3 hours ago, rovert said:

You kind of answered your own question, Memphis Mark. Delirious lives in 10 years ago - Sumie Sakai being WOH Champion for example. Joe Koff views him as a son and won't replace him.

Departure wise obviously money and the need to further career progression comes into it. Especially when wrestlers start a family. But Delirious is notoriously hard to get a hold of even during shows due to his personal habits which just leads to low talent morale especially when the booking sucks. 

 

 I don't know what is going to happen with contracts for next year . However I have been in the business world a long time. Business , like everything , is controlled by the person that has the most leverage. Right now Mr. Runnels and the Massie Brothers have all of the leverage , Delirious has none. Son or not , Runnels could take control of ROH creative as part of a new deal . The Elite are in the drivers seat. In reality we all know the decisions have already been made , the fans are just  the last to know.

 As for money , we all know that SBGI can match any WWE offer, they just won't.  SBGI throws nickels around like manhole covers.  A stark contrast to the management teams of WCW and TNA.

[sek69]

To me the biggest issue is how ROH thinks guys will pay for the opportunity to tryout, but no one of any reasonable talent will bother because they just go and work elsewhere to build up their name.

[hammerva]

Plus going to TNA isn't as awful a situation as it seemed a year ago at this time.  

The biggest worry that ROH will have is this new company everyone is talking about.  if it is a legit company and the stories about it being basically Bullet Club and friends; how does Ring of Honor play a factor.   Will it be a Ring of Honor version of this TNA/MLW/Lucha Underground threesome that is going around  Or will they stand on their own.   

[SomethingSavage]

ROH has basically become OVW. At one time, it was THE premiere breeding ground for hot new talent. Now, it mainly consists of leftovers and guys that aren't really good enough to go anywhere else for the time being.

There are a few exceptions, of course - Lethal, the Briscoes, etc. But they absolutely shot themselves in the foot a few times over the course of the last several years.

The booking has been incredibly bland and uninspiring for SOOO long now. A shakeup is way overdue.

The thing is though - even when they bring in a wave of new trendy guys, they always seem to do the same old shit with them. Regardless of whether it's Ospreay & Scurll, Cobb & company, or whatever. Nobody really comes in with much to do. There's no hot angle or plan for them.

I guess Cody could be considered as an outlier. He had a decent rivalry with Lethal and then the title reign, but that's SUCH a rarity. Even so, that speaks more to what I'm saying in the first place - because at least that felt different and noteworthy. It was SOMETHING happening.

Cobb could be better served by coming in, attacking the top guy, and getting a run at the top for a few months. This weird habit of EVERYBODY coming in and gunning for the TV Title needs to stop. It works for some, but there are others who are worth the gamble. Give them a shot at making a splash & see how they do. Then adjust accordingly.

Instead, what we're left with is this unfortunate situation where - even when guys like Cobb are brought in - they're almost always treated like visitors who can come in, get involved with or near the TV belt, and then cycle out. In the end, that really does nothing for their perception or the reputation going forward. It's barely enough to break up the monotony of their day to day practices.

[Migs]

Watching this week's TV show - how hard would it have been to paper the side with the hard cam for the taping? There's more than enough fans in the upper level they could have moved down. Looks terrible.

At least it seems they might be down to taping three weeks of TV per taping, which should help the freshness.

[Memphis Mark]

 I watched SOTF 2018 live. I enjoyed the show.  A big improvement over Glory By Honor. I hope ROH locked down Tracy Williams and LuchaSaurus before they left the building. The Williams vs. Gresham  was the MOTN , well worth watching .

[Memphis Mark]

Well I watched the Global Wars show from Maine. I fell asleep a couple of times. Not a good start to the  tour. Cheeseburger vs. Jeff Cobb was a waste of my time. So were the returning Boys and the Kingdom six man.. Just a very boring card  that featured  a lot of generic matches that seemed to be thrown together at the last minute. Big step down from SOTF .

[Migs]

6 hours ago, Memphis Mark said:

Well I watched the Global Wars show from Maine. I fell asleep a couple of times. Not a good start to the  tour. Cheeseburger vs. Jeff Cobb was a waste of my time. So were the returning Boys and the Kingdom six man.. Just a very boring card  that featured  a lot of generic matches that seemed to be thrown together at the last minute. Big step down from SOTF .

It didn't help that they lost power during Page/Cody-Briscoes, which looked decent otherwise. Enjoyed the Bouncers-SCU, but I'm down for any Bouncers match at this point. These cards feel pretty hit and miss to me on the whole, other than Toronto.

[Memphis Mark]

So  , Jay Lethal has resigned with ROH . Jeff Cobb is on board for a year . ZSJ working Final Battle. Brody King starts  after FB . Not too bad. Look ing for a Best friends push in 2019. Greg and Big Dust are money.

 

 FB  could be interesting . Cody , the Bucks and Page all have title shots. What if they all win and then declare  themselves free  agents . Could happen. Would  be a great story line.

[Migs]

11 hours ago, Memphis Mark said:

So  , Jay Lethal has resigned with ROH . Jeff Cobb is on board for a year . ZSJ working Final Battle. Brody King starts  after FB . Not too bad. Look ing for a Best friends push in 2019. Greg and Big Dust are money.

 

 FB  could be interesting . Cody , the Bucks and Page all have title shots. What if they all win and then declare  themselves free  agents . Could happen. Would  be a great story line.

I do not think it's a coincidence that they all are getting title shots on their "last night."

It feels to me like the most likely play is them staying with ROH and New Japan, but with more options to work outside those two and "break down barriers." Certainly to do more big shows like All In, but also just to pop up places in the U.S. and keep themselves fresh. 

[rovert]

No, they are genuinely leaving ROH and likely "go dark" until this mystery new promotion stars in mid-2019. Not saying won't take a booking here or there. But publicly and private there's no indication of them doing much in the Spring. Currently not on the MSG card or doing Wrestlecon.

Don't ask me about New Japan though.