Ring of Honor Wrestling

[Timbo Slice]

Cary, more than likely. 

[Coffey]

1 hour ago, C.S. said:

Any chance of The Briscoes landing in WWE or AEW? If I'm being honest, hopefully this homophobic jackass never sniffs a major promotion.

I referenced these tweets in my earlier comment & yes, they're heinous, no doubt. Those tweets were made in 2013 & from what I can recall, there's not been any incident since then, right? Then he publicly apologized & his next two ROH payoffs went to the Partners Against Hate charity. 

That being said, his fucking apology was shit & he ended up deleting his Twitter over it at one time. "I feel very strongly about how and who should teach kids about certain things but I showed poor judgment by using that analogy and I’m sorry."

I do think we have to allow people to make mistakes & be able to learn from them & move forward. Depending on the severity of the mistakes, of course. Like Hulk Hogan being allowed to comeback to WWE was ridiculous to me. But I think that the last several years have shown that Jay Briscoe can be valuable as an asset & he wasn't using slurs at least. Not to condone what he said but in the grand scheme of things, his sins were a helluva lot less severe than some of the others that have come out in the last few years. Like Joey Ryan & shit. I don't think Jay Briscoe should have been blackballed from professional wrestling over it & I'm glad he wasn't. I don't know how AEW's roster would feel about him though.

[C.S.]

1 hour ago, Coffey said:

I do think we have to allow people to make mistakes & be able to learn from them & move forward.

I definitely agree.

But as you yourself said, his apology was shit and I have to assume the payoffs to charity were a company mandate. 

He hasn't said or done anything else in years, but he also hasn't atoned or issued a true apology in all this time either.

If he does so now, after all this time, it's only because he's desperate for a job.

Others have definitely said and done worse, but that shouldn't automatically excuse or diminish his actions (not that I think you're trying to do either - I know you aren't).

I could see the Briscoes landing in NXT because WWE doesn't give a fuck about issues beyond lip service, but I'd be surprised if AEW took them.

I guess we'll see what happens. 

[Coffey]

 

 

[Migs]

3 hours ago, Steenalized said:

From the Fightful article linked above. Poor writing or does Sinclair only own the video library of anything since they time that they bought ROH?

 

2 hours ago, sek69 said:

That would explain why they never put any of the older stuff up on Honor Club.

There's plenty of pre-2012 stuff up on Honor Club, although much of it was added in the last year. I assume the issues in getting it up are mostly music editing and laziness.

If Sinclair is selling the library but still wants cheap product... is there a chance part of the deal would be filling the ROH slot?

[Mad Dog]

I swear I read or heard somewhere that they lost some of the old footage at some point. I don't know how true that is but it's always been weird to me that they will put bits and pieces of their old stuff out there but they won't put all of it out there.

I ended up just torrenting everything a couple of years ago. If they aren't going to provide it for me, then why should I feel bad for stealing it?

[sek69]

It's amazing how much of this comes down to Sinclair incompetence that had nothing to do with ROH directly. First they overpaid for the Regional Sports Networks they bought from Fox (who had to get rid of them as part of the terms from the Disney buyout, meaning Sinclair had every advantage in the process and somehow *still* overpaid), and then getting attacked by ransomware (which is completely bonkers that a company that size worth that much money apparently had zero protection from that).  

[Mad Dog]

In fairness though, they did pay their talent for a year and a half with no avenue to make any profit. So for all of their mismanagement they did right by the talent during the pandemic unlike WWE.

[Steenalized]

It's no doubt embarrassing and hurt the bottom line to get hit by ransomware but it's also not really a sign of amateur hour given major insurers, health care, law firms, etc. get hit with these things too. 

[sek69]

9 minutes ago, Steenalized said:

It's no doubt embarrassing and hurt the bottom line to get hit by ransomware but it's also not really a sign of amateur hour given major insurers, health care, law firms, etc. get hit with these things too. 

By itself it isn't, shit happens after all, but by all accounts Sinclair had little to no protections in place to prevent such attack or any backup plan in case it ever did happen (see ROH having to air a best of show due to "technical issues from their broadcaster" which seems like a nice way of saying that shit is locked down and they didn't have backups) which is inexcusable for a mom and pop TV station let alone a billion dollar conglomerate. 

[Steenalized]

Haha yeah that part is ridiculous. Actually I've always wondered what the corporate and governance structures are at Sinclair, namely how small is it despite the big market cap. They own lots of TV stations but predominantly smaller markets and it's clearly based on on going relationships with other huge media companies, which might . Basically I imagine it's wide but shallow and shoe string all around but that's conjecture on my part. 

[joeg]

@C.S. I gotta disagree about the Briscoes, I don't see why it would be a hinderance to the Briscoes getting signed.... Jay made an offensive, ignorant public comment nearly a decade ago. If there's anyone in this ever changing world who has gone the past decade without saying something stupid, then by all means cast the first stone. But I doubt that perfect person exists. I have two points every time stuff like this comes up, first it was a long time ago, people grow and change. Second are we to expect an uneducated, slower lower, chicken farmer to have enlightened views on social issues? GTFO here with that. The Briscoes are their gimmick, they really are good ol' country boys who like a good fight on occasion. I wouldn't expect a product of that environment to have an intelligent, well thought out position on something like gay marriage. And as a wrestling fan, if somebody with their gimmick were to make intelligent, informed public comments about social issues, I'd be disappointed that they broke kayfabe. 

[Rah]

How much of the old RoH footage is even airable in the current climate? There's a boatload of questionable commentary, nevermind chants and promos from wrestlers.

[funkdoc]

Yall, the Briscoes work quite a bit with Effy (the indie wrestler who organizes shows literally called "Big Gay Brunch") these days, and his whole thing is uplifting the LGBTQ community in wrestling.  They might have actually come to understand more since then?  i get the skepticism but would be willing to wait & see on that.

Danhausen is great if you're steeped in more modern nerd/meme culture, but this board never gets anyone who appeals to that set.  Might as well be wrestlingclassics when that topic comes up.  He would absolutely get over in AEW, and his stuff is consistently among the best sellers on prowrestlingtees.

BTW, another big part of ROH's downfall that wasn't mentioned here: their response to losing the Elite was to groom Marty Scurll for the top spot and even give him the book.  Then along came Speaking Out...

[Timbo Slice]

Don’t think you want to use the term “groom” with Ol’ Party Marty. 

[MoS]

27 minutes ago, funkdoc said:

Yall, the Briscoes work quite a bit with Effy (the indie wrestler who organizes shows literally called "Big Gay Brunch") these days, and his whole thing is uplifting the LGBTQ community in wrestling.  They might have actually come to understand more since then?  i get the skepticism but would be willing to wait & see on that.

Effy also worked with Disco Inferno. Has Disco Inferno also evolved and become more understanding about the LGBTQ community? I'm just saying that "Effy worked with them, so they must not be homophobic" isn't really a particularly strong point. 

[C.S.]

4 hours ago, joeg said:

And as a wrestling fan, if somebody with their gimmick were to make intelligent, informed public comments about social issues, I'd be disappointed that they broke kayfabe. 

Jim Cornette, is that you?

[sek69]

Despite the gimmick, the Briscoes are both pretty intelligent guys. I would hope Jay has evolved enough to realize how messed up his comments were. I don't expect to see him at any Pride events ever, but its been a decade and minds can change. It's also possible as a smart guy he realized after his tweet allegedly cost him a WWE gig that it might be Best for Business to stfu about topics like that since wrestling (and indy wrestling in particular) has become way more LGBTQ friendly in the years since he said those things. 

 

[Migs]

Hadn't thought about this, but Meltz points out that Sinclair has a deal with David McLane's WOW group starting in 2022, which might be the answer to how they fill the ROH time slots.

[funkdoc]

11 hours ago, MoS said:

Effy also worked with Disco Inferno. Has Disco Inferno also evolved and become more understanding about the LGBTQ community? I'm just saying that "Effy worked with them, so they must not be homophobic" isn't really a particularly strong point. 

Fair point, had forgotten about that =/

Though i was more trying to say "between that and the offending posts being many years ago, MAYBE things are different now".  i kinda apply the old "statute of limitations on gimmick infringement" rule to these things, idk

[MoS]

Yeah, it was a long time ago, and hey, if he shows his peers he has changed, and if he doesn't say terrible shit like that again, then I don't really care about him signing with AEW or WWE. There's no excuse for him saying what he did, that shit was wrong when he said it and it is wrong now, and I wish we had seen some actual accountability instead of a non-apology and a mandated donation, but I will settle for "Doesn't repeat that shit ever."

[joeg]

20 hours ago, C.S. said:

Jim Cornette, is that you?

Not quite... but seriously if 30 years ago the Bushwackers had gone on a tv talk show and had make eloquent points about the hot button issues of the day, everybody would be like WTF.  I see Jay's tweets as the same thing, to me its part of working the gimmick. Jay Briscoe's character is a farmer from the Eastern Shore of MD who wears camo and a confederate flag to the ring. Why should any fan care what he says on twitter unless it obviously breaks character. And double why would anyone care what he said on twitter a decade ago. 

[sek69]

Homophobia shouldn't be part of anyone's gimmick, neither should threatening to shoot anyone who tries to teach his kid not to be. If he wants to be in gimmick then tweet about like, chickens and shit. Yeah, his overall presentation does suggest someone who would hold those views, but you don't have to say that shit out loud and if you do the you accept the consequences.

[Infinit]

Jay's tweets were really shitty, and were made 8 years ago. Has there been any red flags since then? Any complaints from his peers or coworkers? If there was a pattern of behavior, I'd be the first in line to call for cancelation.  But I think that it's important to let people grow from mistakes, especially on social media. And especially if it wasn't serial mistakes. I hope Jay and Mark get another shot.

[TonyPulis'Cap]

On 10/28/2021 at 2:24 AM, Laz said:

The shows were great even into the end of the Gabe era, but if I could pinpoint one specific thing that began the downfall, it would be, as @strobogo said, the HDNet era. The shows were great as bi-weekly events, allowing the core talent to go out there and bust ass each show, allowing the breathing room for stories and feuds to build and build. Swapping to a weekly presentation required a fundamental reworking of the company's approach to booking, one that never quite worked in that format. It wasn't "special" anymore, if that makes sense, and it was hammered home by the booking just getting worse and worse until I'm supposed to think of Eddie Edwards as a shooter.

Would definitely agree with this - the TV shows on HDNET, while *in theory* meant to be pushing the same storylines as the other shows never synced up, so it became really confusing in terms of the timelines and you almost had parallel products going on, which actually, is something they never ever rectified in the decade since. I stopped watching ROH just prior to the pandemic and they STILL couldn't sync up the timeline of their TV with their PPVs and other shows.

That was also around the time Marty Scurll got named in Speaking Out, when there had actually seemed to be a bit of a positive buzz around the direction of the product and who they were signing since he had become booker. It probably wouldn't have been enough to steer them on a course to something more positive than where we are now mind given Sinclair were never much interested in them as anything other than cheap content, but you never know. While they deserve praise for being one of the few wrestling companies to behave responsibly during Covid and support the wrestlers in that time despite not running shows that was after years of awful HR practices by the sound of things, and creatively, they have been a zombie promotion for a little while now.