sek69 Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 As I said before, if they put half the effort into booking that they do being trolls to mean internet people, WWE TV would be awesome right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Seriously, wtf was that ending segment? I'm as sick of Superman Cena as everyone else but the guy is still your ace and you book an entire three hour show around making him look like an enormous asshole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Serious question: from a total package standpoint, has WWE ever been worse than it is now? The godawful booking and dead crowds make Raw an absolute chore to get through, and the in-ring product isn't nearly good enough to compensate. The crowds are the biggest killer because they suck the life out of everything. The good stuff seems not as good and the not-so-good stuff is unbearable. I know there's no chance of WWE going under in the foreseeable future, but watching Raw really feels like watching a dying promotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bierschwale Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 There are so many guys who are worse off now then they were a year ago. The "better off" list: Rusev, Ryback, and Ziggler. The latter two were just kayfabe fired, and the former wasn't on the main roster. Arguments could be made for Barrett (who's only in his second week back and was just given the cat toy title) and Rollins (who has better stature but went from unimpeachable to... not so much). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chief Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Serious question: from a total package standpoint, has WWE ever been worse than it is now? The godawful booking and dead crowds make Raw an absolute chore to get through, and the in-ring product isn't nearly good enough to compensate. The crowds are the biggest killer because they suck the life out of everything. The good stuff seems not as good and the not-so-good stuff is unbearable. I know there's no chance of WWE going under in the foreseeable future, but watching Raw really feels like watching a dying promotion. 2003 and 2009 Raw was atrocious, but during the brand split days if one show sucked the other was at least decent as a general rule. Struggling to think of a time when the entire product felt this flat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mini Bennett Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Ah true. This is what happens when the Pavlovian dog stops responding to the dinner bell. Complete silence and apathy. Sounds like RAW sucked, but what an awful thing to say. Fuck off, douche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Enthusiast Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 I had actually thought about watching the Raws leading up to Rumble since I haven't watched any WWE post-Summerslam (aside from about half of NOC). Glad that it was just a fleeting thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert S Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 At least the finish of the mixed 6 men was entertaining. I had to rewind a couple of times to rewatch this thing because it was so awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Is it wrong (and weird) of me to think that Vince wants to kill off the WWE before anyone else has a chance (even his own daugher and son-in-law) have an opportunity to run it themselves? I mean, we know how ego-driven he is. Is he more ego-driven than success-driven? I mean, some of the business choices and booking decisions have been head-scratchers: The WWE Network (I'm still of the belief that they had enough of a decent PPV business to continue that path) and the handling of it (promotion, overseas distribution, programming, etc.). Breaking up the Shield when they were at their hottest. Keeping various guys who are getting over as organically as possible in that environment at a certain level (Bryan before Punk left, Ambrose after the Shield break-up, Cesaro after WrestleMania, etc.). And, of course, last night, which was the ultimate of the "wins and losses don't matter in WWE" criticism. None of this at all seems sane, let alone smart. I gather Vince (even at his old age) must be smarter than this, so what exactly are the motivations behind these choices? This promo from 13 years ago seems more true now, particularly starting at 1:11: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 That show was brutal. Coming off the terrific New Japan Dome show, it felt even more unbearable. Yeah, total WCW 2000 vibes (including a damn ambulance match, but without Shaggy 2 Dope crashing down like a blob). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Serious question: from a total package standpoint, has WWE ever been worse than it is now? The godawful booking and dead crowds make Raw an absolute chore to get through, and the in-ring product isn't nearly good enough to compensate. The crowds are the biggest killer because they suck the life out of everything. The good stuff seems not as good and the not-so-good stuff is unbearable. I know there's no chance of WWE going under in the foreseeable future, but watching Raw really feels like watching a dying promotion. Looking at the big picture, I think you could certainly argue things were a lot worse during the '93-'95 era. They have a very, very talented roster. At the moment they're booking to minimize that talent, but the assets are there. I can't remember enjoying a Raw less than last night. I was actually kind of pissed at myself for staying up that late and sitting through 3.25 hours of that. There was nothing I found fun in or out of the ring. Here's hoping Bryan is a shot in the arm and that between him, Sting and whatever they do with Cena, Mania season doesn't feel like a slap in the face. On the bright side, the bar has now been set so low that they don't exactly have to hit it out of the park. But man do they ever seem determined to kill crowds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sporadic Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Serious question: from a total package standpoint, has WWE ever been worse than it is now? The godawful booking and dead crowds make Raw an absolute chore to get through, and the in-ring product isn't nearly good enough to compensate. The crowds are the biggest killer because they suck the life out of everything. The good stuff seems not as good and the not-so-good stuff is unbearable. I know there's no chance of WWE going under in the foreseeable future, but watching Raw really feels like watching a dying promotion. Looking at the big picture, I think you could certainly argue things were a lot worse during the '93-'95 era. They have a very, very talented roster. At the moment they're booking to minimize that talent, but the assets are there. I can't remember enjoying a Raw less than last night. I was actually kind of pissed at myself for staying up that late and sitting through 3.25 hours of that. There was nothing I found fun in or out of the ring. Here's hoping Bryan is a shot in the arm and that between him, Sting and whatever they do with Cena, Mania season doesn't feel like a slap in the face. On the bright side, the bar has now been set so low that they don't exactly have to hit it out of the park. But man do they ever seem determined to kill crowds. '93-'95 was BRUTAL. Outside of both Hart brothers and Michaels from time to time, it was excruciatingly painful to watch. This era should be nothing but great matches being churned out most of the time with the talent they have. However, they seem to be hellbent and determined to keep everyone they have pinned down at a certain level because they can't decide who should get elevated (and that decision changes every five minutes). Look at their tag team division if you need more of an idea of how FUBAR'ed these guys are. The most serious contenders to the Usos are the Miz and Mizdow, an essentially straight man-funny man tag team. Outside of that? Dust Dynasty? They've been neutered. The Ascension? JBL is going to make sure they get shitcanned. Cesaro/Kidd? Talented but boxed in to running around with Adam Rose (who has been dropped since Day 1 on the main roster). Lost Matadores? Comedy team. Weak teams abound. This time last year? You had The Shield and The Wyatts. Even when they split The Shield you still had the Wyatts. Seems like the answer to everything with them is when something gets hot or the crowd seems to like it the best thing to do is fucking kill it with fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stiva Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 I watched Raw for the first time in a while last night and I will say this re: the quality of it. At least in 2003, at it's worst, it felt like they had some idea of who they were pushing and how they were doing it. Late 03, it was Kane as your monster heel, Goldberg was chasing HHH who had his cronies helping him keep the belt, Orton was being kept strong in the midcard with the IC title and Christian was being positioned with Jericho with the idea of eventually putting him over and elevating. You watch that show last night and there's absolutely nothing there to indicate anything even approaching that. It seems so off-the-rails and haphazard because it clearly is. In some ways, it has parallels to 03 because we've got HHH "gaining heat" on top, to absolute crickets, long past the point people have cared about seeing him get his comeuppance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bierschwale Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 At least the finish of the mixed 6 men was entertaining. I had to rewind a couple of times to rewatch this thing because it was so awesome. I was ready to put up with all of the bullshit that had preceded it just after Cesaro and Kidd's Doomsday Blockbuster on Big E.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistxx Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Have to give it to Steph and Hunter, they are way better heels than they ever used to be. Far more self aware and brilliant at playing up to the stereotypes about them rather than inadvertently reinforcing them. The constant canoodling, Stephanie dancing to the awful cheesy music...the confetti coming down was a brilliant touch as well. Other than that Raw seemed the usual litany of meaningless repeat matches and boring filler to make up time, fast forwarded through 90% of it, everything feels so stale. Hopefully they pull it back coming into WM season. They have backed themselves into a corner with the firings, presumably it all gets blown off again in the next few weeks because no way they keep Ziggler off television for that long unless he is injured, he is pretty much their workhorse and really over. The triple threat at the Royal Rumble just screamed to me that someone is unwilling to job. Either Cena didn't want to lose to Brock again with him on the way out, or they want to get the title off Lesnar while keeping his strong going into Wrestlemania against Reigns or Daniel Bryan. Surely they haven't added the stipulation so they can run Cena vs Lesnar at Wrestlemania in a singles match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistxx Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Anyone think they might run something like HHH/Kane/Rollins vs Sting/Orton/Ziggler at Wrestlemania? Might make sense if they don't think Trips and Sting can have a decent match one on one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Anyone think they might run something like HHH/Kane/Rollins vs Sting/Orton/Ziggler at Wrestlemania? Might make sense if they don't think Trips and Sting can have a decent match one on one. Replace Kane with Sheamus and that is a spoiler for my WWE fantasy booking going on in the Armchair Booking section for Mania. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Not crazy about either match, but I would have no problem with Ziggler getting a big win over Kane or Show at Mania. In fact, that's a decent path for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Maybe in some alternate universe where Triple H isn't the owner's son-in-law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 any notice they changed the Raw opening credits with Reigns front and center? in retrospect they should have waited to bring Hunter and Steph back till after the Rumble. There is no reason why we need three full months of this stuff till Mania. Unless Sting gets over huge or somehow they integrate Bryan this thing is headed for a slow death march. The crowds the past 2 weeks have made it perfectly clear that they are sick of this storyline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidebottom Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 I try not to get negative about Raw. It's like moaning that my McDonald's isn't nutritional: I know what I'm getting and I certainly have the option not to tune in. But that ending was awful. The evil authority figure ad nausea continues to be my biggest hate about the WWE. And we have a storyline development (the multiple firings) which won't last more than two episodes. Poor form all round for an episode I was looking forward to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 The only real highlights of the show was The Masters of the Universe who are fucking great especially Cesaro looking like Larenz Tate in Dead Presidents and them using that music to end the Cena stuff with Steph being amazing. I knew the show was bad but it was definitely reenforced today when these two fans I work with who always talk about WWE and are deep into it even admitted it sucked last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sporadic Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 I try not to get negative about Raw. It's like moaning that my McDonald's isn't nutritional: I know what I'm getting and I certainly have the option not to tune in. The big difference between WWE and McDonalds is that McDonald's doesn't come out and intentionally shit all over their entire menu nor will they let a product flounder (no pun intended) around on the menu if it isn't selling well (McDLT, McLean, McPizza just to name a few). They certainly don't have the best food in the world (all the sugar in their buns for example nevermind their cheese...) but they're going to pimp it and pimp it hard to get feet in the door/drive-thru. You also better bet that their CEO and horde of executives will eat their own dog food too (not all the time, mind you, but when pushed they will). I honestly can't say the same thing for WWE right now with the exception of NXT. Actually, NXT, Superstars and Main Event are worth taking time out to watch (NXT most of the time, Superstars and Main Event a good 50/50). RAW has become a giant waste and PPVs themselves aren't far behind... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 It's pretty amazing that for a guy in Cena who will never turn heel, they've pretty much turned him heel on all but the most die hard 6 year old Cena fans. Hell, they've booked Cena as a better heel than most of the actual heels they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blehschmidt Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 The triple threat at the Royal Rumble just screamed to me that someone is unwilling to job. Either Cena didn't want to lose to Brock again with him on the way out, or they want to get the title off Lesnar while keeping his strong going into Wrestlemania against Reigns or Daniel Bryan. Surely they haven't added the stipulation so they can run Cena vs Lesnar at Wrestlemania in a singles match? I think that is exactly the plan. Not sure of exactly how it will go down, but I think Rollins leaves the Rumble with the belt so he can lose to either Bryan or Reigns at Wrestlemania, and then Cena finally gets to defeat Lesnar to send him packing on "the grandest stage of them all" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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