Are there any great Randy Orton matches?

[Smack2k]

I am NOT an Orton fan in ANY way...cant stand him on the Mic or in the ring since he left Evolution in 2004...I will preface this saying I havent seen much WWE since early 2012, but I NEVER found him entertaining and he made me want to change the channel everytime he came out or showed up on TV..I say that to say this..

 

I LOVE the Orton / Cena Match at Summerslam 2007...I really do..Its paced well, they have a GREAT story in the ring (and its their first big match, so there is nothing for them to fall back on at ANY time in the match that they did before, and it ends Clean and in a beilevable way...It's one of my Top 10 matches of all time (this from a die hard fan of all territories from 85 - end and WCW / WWE weekly through 2011). Laugh if you want, but I love it, even with my intense hatred of the Orton character.

 

I watched that Summerslam alone in my man cave and clearly remember it. I was enjoying some greens that night as I usually did back then when I watched it, so a few years later I thought, "Watch it again as maybe that was why you loved it!"..

 

Nope, still love it today...

 

As for the Bragging Rights 2009 tap out with 2 seconds left, I kind of look at it as if that was a real fight, no time or countdown is gonna get in the way of pain being too excruciating to give up. Sports Entertainment wise, it was kind of dumb, but looking at it as real, it made sense. Plus I was there and the younger kids around me were in the palm of WWE's hand during that last 30 seconds and when Orton tapped at 2 sec, they lost their minds...

[Jimmy Redman]

I've seen Cena/Orton '07 multiple times in the last year and am still amazed at how great it is.

 

And I also don't have a problem with the Bragging Rights tapout. If Orton was a babyface, sure he should have valiantly held on through the time limit to force overtime. But he was the heel, he's not supposed to be valiant. He was in excruciating pain and couldn't hold on any longer, whether he could hear/see the time ticking down or not.

 

I think the amount of subs that happen in MMA close to a round ending are proof enough that it wasn't unrealistic.

[SGFMOwrestlingfan]

As far as "Great" matches go, I think he's had three slam dunk ones.

 

Orton Vs. Christian at Over the Limit 2011

 

Orton Vs. Foley at Backlash '04

 

Orton Vs. Edge at Vengeance '04

[goc]

I've seen Cena/Orton '07 multiple times in the last year and am still amazed at how great it is.

 

And I also don't have a problem with the Bragging Rights tapout. If Orton was a babyface, sure he should have valiantly held on through the time limit to force overtime. But he was the heel, he's not supposed to be valiant. He was in excruciating pain and couldn't hold on any longer, whether he could hear/see the time ticking down or not.

I think the amount of subs that happen in MMA close to a round ending are proof enough that it wasn't unrealistic.

This is why I didn't mind the Bragging Rights finish. I was far more frustrated in the first GSP/Matt Hughes fight in the UFC where GSP tapped out with 1 second left in the round. I actually thought that match was AMAZING the first time I saw it and it was my match of the year that year. I really didn't think they could pull off an Iron Man match but it blew me away.

[bradhindsight]

I really loved the HHH mania match but I think I may literally be the only one that did.

We're certainly in the minority but I liked it a good bit also.

 

Since the crowd was dead after Undertaker/HBK, the fact that the match had little heat is typically held against it.

 

What crippled the match was the terrible stipulation that HHH (who was the CHAMP - and the face here) could lose the title via DQ. So you have this blood feud where families are involved and the story they tell (and the announcers have to harp on) is that HHH has to restrain himself so he doesn't lose the title via disqualification. Horrible.

 

BUT for what they shoehorned themselves into, I thought the actual wrestling was really good and liked what they did a lot. Like ***1/2 and by far not one of the worst Mania main events like its often categorized.

[bradhindsight]

That match was really good? Really? It got a ton of time, but there were a half dozen "What the fuck do we do now?" moments and that is the most ridiculous RKO out of nowhere finish ever. It was okay I guess

I'm partial to Christian regularly doing a springboard splash out of the corner into an RKO for most ridiculous RKO finish (definitely top 5). It was okay the first time but they definitely busted it out a couple times during their feud (including the end of the SummerSlam match to cap things off).

[Jimmy Redman]

I really loved the HHH mania match but I think I may literally be the only one that did.

We're certainly in the minority but I liked it a good bit also.

 

Since the crowd was dead after Undertaker/HBK, the fact that the match had little heat is typically held against it.

 

What crippled the match was the terrible stipulation that HHH (who was the CHAMP - and the face here) could lose the title via DQ. So you have this blood feud where families are involved and the story they tell (and the announcers have to harp on) is that HHH has to restrain himself so he doesn't lose the title via disqualification. Horrible.

 

BUT for what they shoehorned themselves into, I thought the actual wrestling was really good and liked what they did a lot. Like ***1/2 and by far not one of the worst Mania main events like its often categorized.

 

Really? I thought the actual wrestling was atrocious, with both guys hitting their (super protected) finishers in the opening minute in a misguided attempt to get the crowd hot, and then having literally nowhere to go from there.

 

The stipulation was debilitating, as was the result (Orton should have won, but they wanted the happy ending for the 25th anniversary), but I don't think what they did in the ring helped either.

 

There are other examples in recent years of guys having to follow the Undertaker match who actually went in with a sound gameplan, built a match with patience and succeeded in getting the crowd into them by the end. Edge/Cena/Show, Edge/Jericho and Punk/Jericho being examples. Even Orton/HHH/Cena, which went on soon after Flair's retirement.

[bradhindsight]

^ There are times where I enjoy the unpredictable-ness of hitting finishers early (Angle/Austin at SS01 for example) and IIRC their build here was to play off all the Orton punting to that point - it just went over flat (and they showed the dreaded face-on camera which showed how bad it whiffed). I guess I liked the skeleton of the story they wanted to tell a bit more than others, but definitely agree that post-Taker they could have done things better. The stipulation (as we both noted) was one of the worst Mania ones ever.

[TRMD]

Orton gives a great performance as a piece of shit heel, loving every second of his heat vs Angle at ONS06.

[bradhindsight]

I'll throw one out that can't be lumped in with the "Orton only has good matches with great workers" vibe from the "Does anyone give a shit about Randy Orton" thread that is also in the Microscope:

 

vs. Batista - Extreme Rules 2009 (Cage Match)

 

These guys waste no time with any build or fluff, Orton's goal is to escape at any moment and avoid getting demolished by a pissed off Batista. He's almost out (I wouldn't call this a visual escape) when he decides to punt Batista (he punted him earlier in the year, which is what set up this return feud post Mania) and I love when Orton misses that he immediately runs up the turnbuckle and tries to escape, knowing he was f'd. This is sub 10 minutes and there is little wasted at all. Underrated and mostly forgotten - probably due to Batista being hurt and surrendering the title right away.

[Gregor]

Randy Orton vs. Chris Benoit (1/13/06, US Title)

 

I was dicking around on DailyMotion the other day and this came up on the list of related videos. Even though this was during the couple of years that I got back into watching current wrestling, I had no memory of it. I do remember how depressing SmackDown was in this era. They play a big dramatic video package before this event to make it feel special, even though the story is pretty bad. Randy Orton is trying to win the vacant title on behalf of an injured Booker T because Booker will then owe him one.

 

The work is pretty good but the layout is awful. They work holds at the start and it's pretty realistic and intense, even if there aren't as many counterholds as I like in mat wrestling. There's some other cool stuff scattered throughout, like the two of them fighting on the top before Orton takes a great bump to the outside off the barricade, which he sells beautifully. They also get Booker ejected in a clever spot that Benoit almost ruins by pointing to his head three times. Faces don't point to their head three times.

 

Benoit's in control for the first 12 or so minutes, which is way too long for a 21-minute match. They had a good opportunity for a transition when Orton flung Benoit into the post, and the one that they use instead is just Orton kicking his way out of a sharpshooter. Orton's in control for like three or four minutes and half of his offense is chinlocks (the other half is some nice kneedrops and a textbook dropkick). Benoit then chops his way out of a chinlock - an even weaker transition than the earlier one - and they go into the homestretch, which is almost all Benoit. He really is relentless here. Even when Orton is on top Benoit keeps grabbing onto him and chopping at him. He looks tough but not particularly sympathetic.

 

Orlando Jordan runs down to help Benoit - it looks like they were having him do some sort of incompetence angle - and gets taken out immediately. The ref gets bumped and Booker comes down to ringside, nails Benoit with the belt, and that's it. It's kind of hard to believe that the ref wouldn't DQ Orton for Booker being there, and it makes the whole ejection spot seem pointless. I don't remember how Booker ended up paying Orton back.

 

I remember someone at the time describing Orton as a guy who was great at the little things but struggled with the big things. It's hard to tell from this, given that he was on the defensive for almost the whole match and didn't get to do much in the way of big things. He had some really nice glazed-eye selling and took some moves beautifully - he did such a good job with just a back elbow that it got replayed - but he also had some lame over-the-top evil faces. Really, though, it was the match as a whole that nailed the small stuff and flubbed that big stuff. Not all of that was the workers' fault (dumb run-ins, anticlimactic angle), but they could have done a much better job with this.

[chrislatimer]

Randy Orton is so frustrating for me. He clearly has the skills to be one of the best of all times. But for so much of his career hes not reached his peak.

 

As for great randy orton matches the match with cactus jack at backlash 04 was a great hardcore battle. or if you arent into hardcore wrestling he had a sleeper of a gem against kurt angle i remember i think it was vengeance 06 i cant place it specifically

[Smack2k]

I absolutely dont like Randy Orton and think of him like some on here negatively think of Bruiser Brody....just awful, boring and makes me not wanna watch wrestling if he's being featured...that being said..

 

His match vs. John Cena at Summerslam 2007 is a match that deserves more praise than it gets...I need to defend my point better, so I am gonna watch it again the next day or so and go over it....its really the ONLY Orton singles match (mind you I havent seen the Christian stuff, so..) that I thought was AMAZING.. I LOVED it....