Stan Hansen

[NintendoLogic]

I mentioned the 70s because Loss said he had great matches that spanned three decades. The only 70s Hansen match I've seen in its entirety was with The Destroyer, which I thought was kind of meh. I haven't seen all of the cage match with Bruno, but what I did see looked pretty good.

[Loss]

I was thinking specifically of the Destroyer match, and a few of the Inoki matches he started having in 1977 that I sadly don't recall dates for.

[Loss]

Anyway, the three decades thing could also apply to Shawn Michaels. It definitely applies to Jumbo Tsuruta, Jerry Lawler, Terry Funk and Genichiro Tenryu. It probably even applies to Antonio Inoki. It's a small club, but it's not a party of one.

[JerryvonKramer]

One thing that has interested me about all the Hansen I've seen so far is that he's one guy who mixes up match structure more than most. Many times he'll accelerate the start of a match so we get no shine sequence at all. Other times he can work a slower mat-based match. Sometimes he can work dominant, other times -- including against guys like Baba -- he can work from underneath and sell his ass off.

 

Going through All Japan, the one thing that set him apart consistently though was match structure. His matches do not play out the same way as 90% of other matches, there's a genuine unpredictability there.

 

I've been a bit out of it wrestling-wise for the past couple of weeks as real-life has thrown some things in my way but I'm looking forward to seeing his PR stuff and AWA stuff.

[Childs]

OJ, my feeling was not that a lot of the Brody-Hansen tags were good but that Hansen was usually pretty good in them. Regardless, if you want to call that the weak point in his resume, I won't argue. God knows, I endured them all when we were prepping the All Japan set.

[Phil Schneider]

Anyway, the three decades thing could also apply to Shawn Michaels. It definitely applies to Jumbo Tsuruta, Jerry Lawler, Terry Funk and Genichiro Tenryu. It probably even applies to Antonio Inoki. It's a small club, but it's not a party of one.

Shit Lawler had great matches in five decades

[KB8]

That Hansen/Kea v Kawada/Tenryu tag from July 2000 is fucking awesome as well. So four decades.

 

And yeah, right now he's my GOAT.

[ohtani's jacket]

Nick Bockwinkel vs. Stan Hansen (4/20/86)

 

I watched this twice to see how it could possibly be described as stiff or a war, and to try to ignore the commentary, but this was so lacklustre and pedestrian that the ref bump and DQ finish were hardly even a letdown. I don't have the AWA set, so I don't know how good this is contextually, but this wasn't anywhere near as exciting as the wild and sprawling, Terry Funk influenced Puerto Rico brawls against Colon and Bockwinkel looked plain old. I thought this was going to be hard hitting like something like Rudge/Tyrone, but the holds were pretty pointless and the mid-match, pre-ref bump stuff seemed affected by the fact they were building to a DQ.

[Graham Crackers]

Nick Bockwinkel vs. Stan Hansen (4/20/86)

 

I watched this twice to see how it could possibly be described as stiff or a war, and to try to ignore the commentary, but this was such a lacklustre, pedestrian that the ref bump and DQ finish was hardly even a letdown. I don't have the AWA set, so I don't know how good this is contextually, but this wasn't anywhere near as exciting as the wild and sprawling, Terry Funk influenced Puerto Rico brawls against Colon and Bockwinkel looked plain old. I thought this was going to be hard hitting like something like Rudge/Tyrone, but the holds were pretty pointless and the mid-match, pre-ref bump stuff seemed affected by the fact they were building to a DQ.

Other people seemed higher on this one than me but I thought it was kind of disappointing and makes a a pretty poor representation of both guys and the AWA set. It was somewhere on the bottom half of my ballot. It's also maybe the second or third best match on this show. Both wrestlers had many much better matches in 86 with other opponents.

[jdw]

I mentioned the 70s because Loss said he had great matches that spanned three decades. The only 70s Hansen match I've seen in its entirety was with The Destroyer, which I thought was kind of meh. I haven't seen all of the cage match with Bruno, but what I did see looked pretty good.

This is what Will had on his set from the 70s:

 

Stan Hansen vs. The Destroyer (10/30/75)

Stan Hansen vs. Bruno Sammartino (4/26/76)

Battle Royal (5/8/76) (8mm clips)

Stan Hansen & Ivan Koloff vs. Bruno Sammartino & Ivan Putski (7/10/76) (8mm Clips)

Stan Hansen vs. Bruno Sammartino (Cage Match) (11/6/76) (8mm Clips)

Stan Hansen vs. Antonio Inoki (9/2/77)

Stan Hansen vs. Andre the Giant (5/18/79)

Stan Hansen vs. Antonio Inoki (6/7/79)

Stan Hansen vs. Killer Karl Kox (10/27/79)

Stan Hansen & Ole Anderson Interview (11/10/79)

Stan Hansen & Ole Anderson vs. Ernie Ladd & Masked Superstar (11/10/79)

 

These matches also aired on Classics and/or were part of Dan's Misc Original NJ TV 74-81 set:

 

02/02/77 Inoki vs Hansen

10/04/77 Inoki vs Hansen

05/04/79 Inoki & Sakaguchi vs Brisco & Hansen

05/25/79 Inoki vs Hansen

06/01/79 Sakaguchi vs Hansen

 

His available stuff in Japan is very Inoki-driven, which is telling on one level since it was his big feud. On another level, it's pretty narrow in being able to see him work with a variety of people in the 70s like we can with Inoki, Baba, Jumbo... Terry and Dory have a far wider variety of "opponents" to view in Japanese matches in the 70s, and even Billy Robinson does.

 

Will had 8mm of the Bruno-Hansen cage match. The house show version of it got release on 24/7 at some point. The 10/04/76 MSG with Stan Hansen & Nikolai Volkoff vs Ivan Putski & Gorilla Monsoon also hit 24/7, though that's under 8 minutes long... not likely to be worthwhile.

 

Non-Japan 80's stuff would include his three matches with Backlund in 1981 at MSG. All exist and are on Will's set. The first one was quite good, basically working Hansen-style where they're doing "stuff", moving it along rather than working any focused body part for long stretches. Never have cared for the cage match: felt really rushed, poor in contrast to the epic with Slaughter over in Philly in this same time frame.

[ohtani's jacket]

Stan Hansen vs. Sgt. Slaughter (2/2/86)

 

When you need to convince yourself that a dream match is just going to be a good, regular match and then you have to convince yourself that the regular match is good, you know you're looking at a disappointment.

 

Stan Hansen vs. Leon White (3/13/86)

 

It was weird seeing Vader with hair here. Man, was he green. I couldn't understand why Hansen gave him so much of the match as he looked so poor working from the top. I guess most people like Hansen's US work better than me, but it's really not that strong. Feels like a fairly sizable chink in his case for GOAT. I'm not a big fan of Flair's work in Japan, but it's clearly better than Hansen's work Stateside, if you want to make that comparison, though to be fair Flair got to work title matches for the most part.

[NintendoLogic]

The first time I watched the 1985 Funk/Hansen match, I thought it was the best of their matches together. To make sure I wasn't crazy, I watched all three of their All Japan singles matches in succession, and I'm more convinced than ever. The brawling is more intense, the transitions are better, even the post-match brawl is better. I don't know why it's held in such relatively low esteem. I guess I just don't see the greatness in the other two matches that others seem to see.

 

Also, I watched the bunkhouse match with Austin Idol. Really good stuff, even with the crap finish. It's a shame Hansen didn't stick around in Memphis, because it's probably the territory that was the best fit for him stylistically.

[NintendoLogic]

Oh, and I finally finished watching the Colon matches. Great, great stuff. The bullrope match is the best match of that style I've ever seen, and the cage match is almost certainly the best escape-the-cage match I've ever seen. More than anything, it solidifies Hansen as someone who wasn't only great in Japan.

[ohtani's jacket]

Stan Hansen vs. Kenta Kobashi (09/04/91)

 

This was better stuff from Hansen, although hitting your finisher to start the match is something other workers get criticised for all the time. Nevertheless, the narrative of Kobashi not having the physical strength or experience to beat Hansen was solid and the action was good, though not the "pro-wrestling at its purest" sap that All Japan fans try or tried to sell it as. If there's one thing I hate about going back and re-watching this All Japan stuff it's the outside brawling. It's almost as bad as the outside brawling in Joshi, though nowhere near as rife. The finish here was awesome with Kobashi ducking the lariat and Hansen changing arms. That was bad ass.

[jdw]

I must have missed All Japan fans selling the 1991 Hansen-Kobashi as "pro-wrestling at its purest". In fact, it's not been a match that's been sold much at all by AJ fans over the years.

 

Are you think of a different Hansen-Kobashi? Or is there a secret coven of online AJ fans that I need to read?

[claw64]

What 70s Flair matches are great?

 

The old time Crockett fans always say Flair vs Steamboat and Flair/Greg Valentine vs Ole Anderson/Gene Anderson. I have not seen said matches so I can only relate what old JCP fans have stated.

[Matt D]

AJPW:

 

Hansen/Ron Bass vs Jumbo/Tenryu 4/6/85

 

I'm looking at these as individual performances right now for the GOAT. I can't help it. I haven't seen much of anyone but Bass. Isn't that funny?

 

Jumbo - He'd developed a bit more into grumpy Jumbo by now? He was a definite force whenever he came into the ring, with my favorite parts the big face off vs Hansen early and the begging off by Bass (which felt earned) after the "hot tag."

 

Tenryu - Spirited FIP, great timed back brain kick at a key moment. I need to see more.

 

Bass - Kind of hilarious. He was blown up for 90% of the match, but damn it if he didn't handle it well. He went into rest holds but they were fairly gritty. He toughed it out and ran into shots when he had to. He did BS on the outside when he was called upon it. He made smart, believable tags when on top. And when Jumbo came in and he begged off, you believed him.

 

Hansen: His intensity was amazing. He made a headlock feel like a high spot. That's not even hyperbole. The speed that he cut the distance and drove his opponent down had that effect. That said, every time he came in, it was with that speed, and he'd keep rolling with it, into a pinfall and then into whatever went next. It all looked great, but since nothing ever breathed, nothing really mattered. In some ways, Bass' lack of stamina was the heart of the match, because he had to slow things down which helped everything resonate. I was really surprised by how go-go-go Hansen's dominance felt. Everything looked good and was credible because of what he put behind it but actually pausing to let Tenryu sell would have helped the narrative of the match immensely.

[Matt D]

AJPW:

 

Hansen/Dibiase vs Jumbo/Tenryu - 4/20/85

 

I've seen some other AJPW tags from the 80s, usually if there's a guy (Bockwinkel, Martel, etc) that I really like in them. I have to admit I really haven't been impressed by these two. There are things that did impress me of course, but ultimately, the style seems to be "Wrestlers run into each other at high speeds for twenty minutes." Sometimes someone will have the advantage for a few minutes but it never really builds to a key moment. Sometimes someone will sell limb damage or just in general for a little bit but only until it's their turn to be on offense again.

 

Hansen has incredible stamina and energy. Last match he made a headlock seem like a high spot. In this match, he made being IN a headlock seem like one. The way he sizes up an opponent before charging at them is just nuts. Dibiase did better than Bass, but he was still a step behind. He'd not really make it in time for a double suplex or for a double shoulder block, mainly because Hansen was charging ahead at such high speed. On the other hand, he seemed to be calling things around the ring well and positioned himself well for other double teams, especially when he was setting an opponent up for Hansen. He also did a really nice job selling the leg at one point in the first ten minutes, but it almost felt like a hindrance since it ultimately didn't mean anything and really, in some ways, it distracted from the "let's charge at each other!" feel that they were going for. In a lot of ways, I almost felt like half of Dibiase's talents were wasted here. Maybe, though, because he could hold his own a little more than Bass, Hansen didn't feel like he had to QUITE be as go-go-go as he was in the other match. He still pressed on from one move to the next in a way that was honestly exhausting to watch, but there was a least a little bit of letting things breathe or locking on a hold.

 

I liked Tenryu's legwork, as little as I actually got to saw, including his leg snap from the second rope. I also like how, after the quasi hot tag towards the end, he was so used to Hansen coming in to break things up that he let go of the hold and hit that awesome back brain kick of his. Jumbo got to sell a lot more here too, which was nice. It's great how excited the crowd gets whenever Jumbo and Hansen face off.

 

This is just one year I'm looking at, so maybe it comes together in different matches on different tours, and I get why people would love Hansen, but I sure as hell wish that intensity and momentum could be channeled to a better end than bulls charging at each other without a lot of rhyme or reason behind it.

[Childs]

How are you picking these matches Matt? I don't think anyone would point to them as particularly good samples of the guys involved.

[WingedEagle]

 

This is just one year I'm looking at, so maybe it comes together in different matches on different tours, and I get why people would love Hansen, but I sure as hell wish that intensity and momentum could be channeled to a better end than bulls charging at each other without a lot of rhyme or reason behind it.

 

Sometimes bulls charge into each other. They are bulls. That is perfectly rational and beautifully rhythmic. Not that these are by any stretch high end choices, but still.

[Matt D]

I started on the Jumbo vs Brisco matches. And then I saw Tenryu on Will's list and went "hey, maybe I should see Tenryu too."

 

Then I typed in Jumbo, Tenryu into youtube and found these two in the first few hits, I think. The first one I picked because I kind of like Bass, and then when I saw the second one which looked like it was on the same tour and was only 20 mins long, which is about as long as I have to watch a match right now, I figured that had a point of reference, so what the hell?

 

Science.

 

RE: Bull charges. Sometimes bulls charge into each other, and the intensity was there, and the crowd sort of ate it up (I think; they got excited when Jumbo and Hansen were in at least), but that doesn't mean that it's something that appeals all that much to me. The leg selling felt like it was for the sake of it, what Dibiase thought he was supposed to do, not necessarily something to draw the fans into any aspect of the match, and then the bulls charging felt like they were for he sake of it, not necessarily to tell any particular story. It didn't build towards anything. I can appreciate the intensity and how singular it is. I've never seen anyone move quite like Hansen, but amazing execution for the sake of amazing execution falls into one very broad category for me which is "something for the sake of itself." IF it's the right thing for the crowd, it gets some credit, and yeah, something realistic seeming will do better than something overly collaborative in my mind, but it's just the rich man's version of the 00s stuff we shit on.

 

Now, like you said, these aren't great matches, but I needed to start somewhere, and I'd rather start with something like this than at the top, so I can get my feet wet and understand better what I'm seeing when I do see the high end stuff.

[Childs]

I will say though, the relentlessness really was Hansen's style. Not that he never slowed down. But his whole thing was eating up an opponent's space and attacking from every angle. That's what made him such a convincing brawler. Would you want to fight that?

[Matt D]

No, and it's a hell of a storytelling tool. It's hugely striking. It stays with you. It leaves a mark on your psyche just to see it.

 

Now I just want to see him use it to tell a story that I really get to enjoy (and I say this having seen that with the Hennig AWA match, for instance, but I want to see it here too). It's the sort of tool that if used for the sake of using it, can render a match meaningless. I think that it's worth discussing not just if it makes the special matches more special, but if it actively hurts matches that don't reach that level by making them all noise (albeit glorious noise) and no resonance? I think it hurt these matches.

 

Now, on the other hand, if these matches would have been worked EXACTLY the same if it was Bass and Dibiase teaming, then maybe it didn't, because those matches wouldn't have been as good without him to do what they wanted to do as well as he did it? But maybe those matches would have been better almost by accident because they'd have to slow things down and make things mean more without his intensity to use as a crutch?

 

I have no idea. I need to see more. This isn't necessarily an attack on Hansen. It's just impressions and qualified ones at that.

[JerryvonKramer]

I thought the 8/31/85 Hansen/ Ted vs Jumbo/ Tenryu match was a **** affair.

[DR Ackermann]

Now I just want to see him use it to tell a story that I really get to enjoy (and I say this having seen that with the Hennig AWA match, for instance, but I want to see it here too).

 

His brawls with Terry in AJPW are awesome and tell very distinct stories. They have amazing chemistry together.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVPrcvlioGE vs Terry Funk 9/11/82

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9W-io5xUJE vs Terry Funk 4/14/83

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5y5AHlBtmV0 w/ Terry Gordy vs the Funks 8/31/83 (Terry Funk retirement match)