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If Not Race Then Who?

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Hey John,

 

Do you think Race got the title because Thesz backed the southwest world title tourney? Or because Crockett was building to the 1st starcade? Would David Von Erich have worked out then, or would Fritz have balked because David VE would have been turned heel in the mid-Atlantic? Or has this already been covered earlier, and I was to lazy to check?

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Early 1984 was funky as the war had already started yet you had Slaughter working Steamer's "retirement" show in January, Tito working shots for Paul Boesch in January, Andre working shots in Florida, PNW, & Texas in April and this one.

 

WWF @ Allentown, PA - Agricultural Hall - February 14, 1984

Greg Valentine (w/ Capt. Lou Albano) d. B. Brian Blair at 6:31

 

JCP @ Richmond, VA – Coliseum – March 24, 1984

Steel Cage Match: Dick Slater d. Greg Valentine

 

A full 39 days between first WWF booking and last JCP booking.

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The DiBiase deal subbing for Race was all storyline by Ole getting over Ted as the new lead heel while making Race look like a douchebag for no-showing a card he wasn't even booked for.

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Early 1984 was funky as the war had already started yet you had Slaughter working Steamer's "retirement" show in January, Tito working shots for Paul Boesch in January, Andre working shots in Florida, PNW, & Texas in April and this one.

 

WWF @ Allentown, PA - Agricultural Hall - February 14, 1984

Greg Valentine (w/ Capt. Lou Albano) d. B. Brian Blair at 6:31

 

JCP @ Richmond, VA – Coliseum – March 24, 1984

Steel Cage Match: Dick Slater d. Greg Valentine

 

A full 39 days between first WWF booking and last JCP booking.

Did Greg have a New Japan tour during that time? That is strange for sure.

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Two things:

1. Anyone have any info on Dave's "Bock turning down the NWA title in 82" story?

I've heard it suggested many times that Bock was considered for the title. I am skeptical that he was ever outright offered it and turned it down. It's more likely that a promoter of note/player in the NWA mentioned to him that he might be someone of interest and he let them know the feeling wasn't mutual. AWA money was good and travel was lighter. Plus Bock was able to book himself out to other offices (Calgary, Memphis, Houston, et.) whereas in the NWA he would have been at the whim of the NWA promoters, with the NWA president taking a percentage of the cut as his pimp.

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I've become really interested in some of this Georgia stuff. Any footage?

 

Also what happened in the scenario where a booker (Ole) intentionally tried to make the champ look silly? GCW was part of the NWA, wouldn't all the other promoters be pissed at him for pulling something like that?

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Two things:

1. Anyone have any info on Dave's "Bock turning down the NWA title in 82" story?

I've heard it suggested many times that Bock was considered for the title. I am skeptical that he was ever outright offered it and turned it down. It's more likely that a promoter of note/player in the NWA mentioned to him that he might be someone of interest and he let them know the feeling wasn't mutual. AWA money was good and travel was lighter. Plus Bock was able to book himself out to other offices (Calgary, Memphis, Houston, et.) whereas in the NWA he would have been at the whim of the NWA promoters, with the NWA president taking a percentage of the cut as his pimp.

 

Bock has said in shoots and interviews that it was suggested to him that he could have been in the running to get the title, but I always got the impression that it was more of a late 70's thing, as opposed to 1982. Bock thought about it and was interested in the idea but, as you noted, he figured out how much the NWA Champ made and how much he worked, and compared it to how much he was getting from Gagne and how much he had to work in the AWA, and quickly decided that it was not worth it from a financial standpoint, or a quality of life standpoint. Plus, as also noted above, he could fill holes with individual shots in other areas when he wanted to do so, on his own schedule.

 

I've always heard that it would have happened before 1982, though.

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I've become really interested in some of this Georgia stuff. Any footage?

JuI smell a "If Not Brett Wayne, then Who?" topic coming in the near future... :)

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There is a ton of GCW footage available from September 1979 to the end.

 

Regarding Bock.....he had points in Houston with Paul Boesch who was on the upper tier of NWA hierarchy plus he had really good runs defending his AWA title in 1978-79 in GCW & JCP which is the timeframe that KHawk was referring to.

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Hey John,

 

Do you think Race got the title because Thesz backed the southwest world title tourney?

I know that's an old story, and perhaps at some point Race would have gotten #7 because of it. But:

 

May 26, 1983: Adonis wins Thesz World Title

June 10, 1983: Race beats Flair in St Louis for #7

 

It doesn't strike me that the NWA would react that quickly. Not saying it's not possible, but it's really quick.

 

Harley also stepped right into the World Title schedule: Texas, Florida, Georgia against Local Heroes before a big run in JCP in July mostly against Flair before the Bounty Hunters angle. It kind of feels like an orderly change of the title.

 

 

Or because Crockett was building to the 1st starcade?

We do have that story as well: Final Conflict was so successful that JCP looked to do Starcade closed circuit around the territory, with Flair looking to regain the title. Since that is what happened, it tends to support that story.

 

Flair also had the belt for close to 2 years, so he was due for a title change with someone, at least a Local Hero, at that point. One does get the feeling that the reason it stayed off Flair longer than it had Race (in the changes with Dusty in 1979 and Rich in 1981) is that Crockett wanted to build to Starcade.

 

 

Would David Von Erich have worked out then, or would Fritz have balked because David VE would have been turned heel in the mid-Atlantic?

I don't think any NWA Promoter who was not named Fritz Von Erich wanted to see David Von Erich as the NWA Champ. Certainly not as a touring champ for 160+ days.

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I don't know about that.....Eddie Graham was a strong friend of Fritz's and if you look at Harley's schedule he spent a good chunk of his reign in Florida.

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Two things:

1. Anyone have any info on Dave's "Bock turning down the NWA title in 82" story?

I've heard it suggested many times that Bock was considered for the title. I am skeptical that he was ever outright offered it and turned it down. It's more likely that a promoter of note/player in the NWA mentioned to him that he might be someone of interest and he let them know the feeling wasn't mutual. AWA money was good and travel was lighter. Plus Bock was able to book himself out to other offices (Calgary, Memphis, Houston, et.) whereas in the NWA he would have been at the whim of the NWA promoters, with the NWA president taking a percentage of the cut as his pimp.

 

Dylan hits it how I would.

 

I don't think there ever was a movement by a majority of the NWA Board and NWA Promoters to offer Nick the title.

 

The story is always stated as happening after Nick won the AWA title. That means during the reigns of Terry, Harley or Flair.

 

Let's knock off Flair and 1982: there was ZERO chance that "the NWA" offered Bock the title at that point. It appeared that everyone was happy with Flair as champ, and that Ric draw very well as champ. There might have been some who would have preferred their own guys to be the champ (say Dusty wanting it for himself or Fritz wanting it for his Boys), but there just isn't any chance that there was a movement among the majority to take the belt off Flair.

 

So let's flip to Terry. I've never heard the story be told that it was an offer to Nick when Terry's reign was ending, that it was offered to Nick, he turned it down and the NWA went with Race. I've always read that there was a pretty decent consensus to go to Race when Terry's clock ran, with a number of people indentified as potential future champs (like Flair... but I take it with a grain of salt that happened in early 1977).

 

So it means the offer came *during* Race's run.

 

If a majority of the NWA Board and/or Promoters we unhappy enough with Race to want to get the belt off him and give it to the *AWA Champ*, then when Nick turned it down they would have put the belt on someone else.

 

Instead, Race held the belt until 1981. He was then liked enough by the Board and Promoters that they let him have it for 160+ days in 1983. Does that sound like someone the Board wanted out of there?

 

Dick Hutton is an example of an NWA Champ who the board wanted gone. Look what happened to him.

 

Like Dylan, I believe there is an origin to the story:

 

Some NWA Promoter was unhappy with Race. That promoter wanted to suggest an alternative Champ to the Board and/or his fellow promoters. He went to Bock and asked if he was interested. Then it died in one of two ways:

 

* Bock truly wasn't interested; or

* the NWA Promoter found no support from his fellow promoters to dump Race

 

Now the reason Larry M might know the story is that the unhappy promoter (let's call him Bosch) told another promoter (let's call him Sam), which was shared with Larry.

 

FWIW, it seems really hard to think that Sam would have backed Bock. Race had a long run of working in St Louis. Hard to see that Sam thought Race was a shitty champ.

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I know that's an old story, and perhaps at some point Race would have gotten #7 because of it. But:

 

May 26, 1983: Adonis wins Thesz World Title

June 10, 1983: Race beats Flair in St Louis for #7

 

It doesn't strike me that the NWA would react that quickly. Not saying it's not possible, but it's really quick.

 

Harley also stepped right into the World Title schedule: Texas, Florida, Georgia against Local Heroes before a big run in JCP in July mostly against Flair before the Bounty Hunters angle. It kind of feels like an orderly change of the title.

Is it possible that the reverse is true...that Thesz found out about Harley getting reign 7 and decided to back the Southwest tournament out of spite (or something similar)?

 

Race getting reign 7 seemed like a no-brainer to me back then, and I was a teenager. I doubt Lou would have had much trouble finding out what the plan swere moving forward from someone that knew them.

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I don't know about that.....Eddie Graham was a strong friend of Fritz's and if you look at Harley's schedule he spent a good chunk of his reign in Florida.

Is that in response to no one other than Fritz wanting David to be champ?

 

I have doubts that Eddie Graham in 1983 wanted David to be the NWA Champ for 160+ days. :)

 

But, does any of this from your earlier list look like stuff that Eddie would rather have had David Von Erich defending as the Heel NWA Champ:

 

* * * * *

 

CWF @ Gainesville, FL – O’Connell Center – June 19, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © vs. Barry Windham

 

CWF @ Orlando, FL – Eddie Graham Sports Stadium – June 19, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title – SR: Ron Bass: Harley Race © d. Dusty Rhodes

 

CWF @ West Palm Beach, FL - City Auditorium - June 20, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © d. Barry Windham

 

CWF @ Tampa, FL – Fort Homer Hesterly Armory – June 21, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © d. Scott McGhee

 

CWF @ Miami, FL – Miami Beach Auditorium & Convention Hall – June 22, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © d. Dusty Rhodes by countout

 

CWF @ Orlando, FL – Eddie Graham Sports Stadium – June 25, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © d. Barry Windham

 

* * * * *

 

CWF @ Orlando, FL – Eddie Graham Sports Stadium – July 31, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © d. Dusty Rhodes by DQ

 

CWF @ West Palm Beach, FL - City Auditorium - August 1, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © fought Mike Graham to a 60:00 draw

 

CWF @ Tampa, FL - Fort Homer Hesterly Armory - August 2, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © d. Mike Graham by DQ

 

CWF @ Miami, FL – Miami Beach Auditorium & Convention Hall – August 3, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © d. Barry Windham by DQ

 

CWF @ Fort Pierce, FL - August 6, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © vs. Blackjack Mulligan

 

CWF @ West Palm Beach, FL – City Auditorium – August 15, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © d. Dusty Rhodes by DQ

 

CWF @ Tampa, FL - Fort Homer Hesterly Armory - August 16, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Dusty Rhodes d. Harley Race © by DQ

 

CWF @ Sunrise, FL – Music Theater – August 17, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © vs. Mike Graham

 

CWF @ Jacksonville, FL – Coliseum – August 18, 1983

No DQ for the NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © vs. Dusty Rhodes

 

CWF @ Sarasota, FL – Robarts Arena – August 20, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © d. Barry Windham by DQ

 

CWF @ Orlando, FL - Eddie Graham Sports Stadium - September 3, 1983

Mike Graham d. Harley Race

 

CWF @ Ocala, FL – Jai-Alai Fronton – September 4, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © vs. Barry Windham

 

CWF @ West Palm Beach, FL - City Auditorium - September 5, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © d. Mike Graham by DQ

 

CWF @ Tampa, FL – Fort Homer Hesterly Armory – September 6, 1983

Blackjack Mulligan d. Harley Race

 

CWF @ Miami, FL – Miami Beach Auditorium & Convention Hall – September 7, 1983 (5,675)

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © d. Ric Flair

 

CWF @ Jacksonville, FL – Coliseum – September 8, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © vs. Barry Windham

 

CWF @ Daytona, FL – Spruce Creek High School – September 9, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © vs. Angelo Mosca

 

CWF @ Lakeland, FL – Civic Center – September 10, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © vs. Barry Windham

 

* * * * *

 

WF @ West Palm Beach, FL - City Auditorium - September 26, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © d. Barry Windham by countout

 

CWF @ Tampa, FL - Fort Homer Hesterly Armory - September 27, 1983

Blackjack Mulligan, Mike Rotundo, & Barry Windham d. Ron Bass, Harley Race, & JJ Dillon

 

CWF @ Miami, FL – Miami Beach Auditorium & Convention Hall – September 28, 1983

2 out of 3 falls match for the NWA World Heavyweight Title: Barry Windham d. Harley Race © by DQ

 

CWF @ Jacksonville, FL - Coliseum - September 29, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Blackjack Mulligan d. Harley Race © by DQ

 

CWF @ Ocala, FL – Central Florida Community College – September 30, 1983

2 out of 3 falls match for the NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © vs. Barry Windham

 

CWF @ St. Petersburg, FL – Bayfront Center – October 1, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © battled Dusty Rhodes to a double countout

 

CWF @ Tampa, FL - Fort Homer Hesterly Armory - October 4, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © battled Dusty Rhodes to a no contest

 

CWF @ Orlando, FL - Eddie Graham Sports Stadium - October 9, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Barry Windham d. Harley Race © by DQ

 

CWF @ Ocala, FL – Jai-Alai Fronton – October 9, 1983

2 out of 3 falls match for the NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © vs. Barry Windham

 

 

* * * * *

 

CWF @ Ocala, FL – Jai-Alai Fronton – November 13, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © vs. Mike Rotundo

 

CWF @ West Palm Beach, FL - City Auditorium - November 14, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © d. Dusty Rhodes

 

CWF @ Tampa, FL – Sun Dome – November 15, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © vs. Mike Rotundo

 

CWF @ Miami, FL – Miami Beach Auditorium & Convention Hall – November 16, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © d. Mike Rotundo by DQ in 22:12

 

CWF @ Daytona Beach, FL – Spruce Creek High School – November 18, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © vs. Barry Windham

 

CWF @ St. Petersburg, FL – Bayfront Center – November 19, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © d. Ron Bass by DQ

 

* * * * *

 

I really don't think so. :) Most of it looks up Harley's alley, not David.

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Is it possible that the reverse is true...that Thesz found out about Harley getting reign 7 and decided to back the Southwest tournament out of spite (or something similar)?

 

That's possible.

 

 

Race getting reign 7 seemed like a no-brainer to me back then, and I was a teenager. I doubt Lou would have had much trouble finding out what the plans were moving forward from someone that knew them.

That's entirely possible.

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I don't know about that.....Eddie Graham was a strong friend of Fritz's and if you look at Harley's schedule he spent a good chunk of his reign in Florida.

Is that in response to no one other than Fritz wanting David to be champ?

 

I have doubts that Eddie Graham in 1983 wanted David to be the NWA Champ for 160+ days. :)

 

But, does any of this from your earlier list look like stuff that Eddie would rather have had David Von Erich defending as the Heel NWA Champ:

 

* * * * *

 

CWF @ Gainesville, FL – O’Connell Center – June 19, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © vs. Barry Windham

 

CWF @ Orlando, FL – Eddie Graham Sports Stadium – June 19, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title – SR: Ron Bass: Harley Race © d. Dusty Rhodes

 

CWF @ West Palm Beach, FL - City Auditorium - June 20, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © d. Barry Windham

 

CWF @ Tampa, FL – Fort Homer Hesterly Armory – June 21, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © d. Scott McGhee

 

CWF @ Miami, FL – Miami Beach Auditorium & Convention Hall – June 22, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © d. Dusty Rhodes by countout

 

CWF @ Orlando, FL – Eddie Graham Sports Stadium – June 25, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © d. Barry Windham

 

* * * * *

 

CWF @ Orlando, FL – Eddie Graham Sports Stadium – July 31, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © d. Dusty Rhodes by DQ

 

CWF @ West Palm Beach, FL - City Auditorium - August 1, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © fought Mike Graham to a 60:00 draw

 

CWF @ Tampa, FL - Fort Homer Hesterly Armory - August 2, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © d. Mike Graham by DQ

 

CWF @ Miami, FL – Miami Beach Auditorium & Convention Hall – August 3, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © d. Barry Windham by DQ

 

CWF @ Fort Pierce, FL - August 6, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © vs. Blackjack Mulligan

 

CWF @ West Palm Beach, FL – City Auditorium – August 15, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © d. Dusty Rhodes by DQ

 

CWF @ Tampa, FL - Fort Homer Hesterly Armory - August 16, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Dusty Rhodes d. Harley Race © by DQ

 

CWF @ Sunrise, FL – Music Theater – August 17, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © vs. Mike Graham

 

CWF @ Jacksonville, FL – Coliseum – August 18, 1983

No DQ for the NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © vs. Dusty Rhodes

 

CWF @ Sarasota, FL – Robarts Arena – August 20, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © d. Barry Windham by DQ

 

CWF @ Orlando, FL - Eddie Graham Sports Stadium - September 3, 1983

Mike Graham d. Harley Race

 

CWF @ Ocala, FL – Jai-Alai Fronton – September 4, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © vs. Barry Windham

 

CWF @ West Palm Beach, FL - City Auditorium - September 5, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © d. Mike Graham by DQ

 

CWF @ Tampa, FL – Fort Homer Hesterly Armory – September 6, 1983

Blackjack Mulligan d. Harley Race

 

CWF @ Miami, FL – Miami Beach Auditorium & Convention Hall – September 7, 1983 (5,675)

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © d. Ric Flair

 

CWF @ Jacksonville, FL – Coliseum – September 8, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © vs. Barry Windham

 

CWF @ Daytona, FL – Spruce Creek High School – September 9, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © vs. Angelo Mosca

 

CWF @ Lakeland, FL – Civic Center – September 10, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © vs. Barry Windham

 

* * * * *

 

WF @ West Palm Beach, FL - City Auditorium - September 26, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © d. Barry Windham by countout

 

CWF @ Tampa, FL - Fort Homer Hesterly Armory - September 27, 1983

Blackjack Mulligan, Mike Rotundo, & Barry Windham d. Ron Bass, Harley Race, & JJ Dillon

 

CWF @ Miami, FL – Miami Beach Auditorium & Convention Hall – September 28, 1983

2 out of 3 falls match for the NWA World Heavyweight Title: Barry Windham d. Harley Race © by DQ

 

CWF @ Jacksonville, FL - Coliseum - September 29, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Blackjack Mulligan d. Harley Race © by DQ

 

CWF @ Ocala, FL – Central Florida Community College – September 30, 1983

2 out of 3 falls match for the NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © vs. Barry Windham

 

CWF @ St. Petersburg, FL – Bayfront Center – October 1, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © battled Dusty Rhodes to a double countout

 

CWF @ Tampa, FL - Fort Homer Hesterly Armory - October 4, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © battled Dusty Rhodes to a no contest

 

CWF @ Orlando, FL - Eddie Graham Sports Stadium - October 9, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Barry Windham d. Harley Race © by DQ

 

CWF @ Ocala, FL – Jai-Alai Fronton – October 9, 1983

2 out of 3 falls match for the NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © vs. Barry Windham

 

 

* * * * *

 

CWF @ Ocala, FL – Jai-Alai Fronton – November 13, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © vs. Mike Rotundo

 

CWF @ West Palm Beach, FL - City Auditorium - November 14, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © d. Dusty Rhodes

 

CWF @ Tampa, FL – Sun Dome – November 15, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © vs. Mike Rotundo

 

CWF @ Miami, FL – Miami Beach Auditorium & Convention Hall – November 16, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © d. Mike Rotundo by DQ in 22:12

 

CWF @ Daytona Beach, FL – Spruce Creek High School – November 18, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © vs. Barry Windham

 

CWF @ St. Petersburg, FL – Bayfront Center – November 19, 1983

NWA World Heavyweight Title: Harley Race © d. Ron Bass by DQ

 

* * * * *

 

I really don't think so. :) Most of it looks up Harley's alley, not David.

 

David as a heel in Florida a year earlier held every major title in the promotion at one point of his 6 month run and was damn good in his role, hell Kerry even came in and worked heel for some shots then working as Flair's bounty hunters with Dave. Fritz was a heel for lot of his career anyway also.

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David as a heel in Florida a year earlier held every major title in the promotion at one point of his 6 month run and was damn good in his role, hell Kerry even came in and worked heel for some shots then working as Flair's bounty hunters with Dave. Fritz was a heel for lot of his career anyway also.

Lots of heels won titles in Florida. Jimmy Garvin was the Southern champ several time.

 

Graham pushing David, be it as a favor to Fritz or because he thought the kid was good, isn't the same thing as voting for him to be World Champ for 160+ days and making that many defenses of the title in Florida. It really is a different beast. :)

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Looking at all the options again, assuming Funk and Brisco are out of the equation, it seems to come down to DiBiase or Valentine.

 

Valentine is a very interesting choice. He was pretty knee deep in his feud with Piper already at the time of the Flair-Race title change. Pretty sure Valentine would have been perfectly fine as a touring heel champ. Valentine probably wouldn't have been able to do the All Japan tour either: he worked several times for New Japan and seemed to be loyal there.

 

Not sure how NWA Promoters would have looked at it. You basically had a JCP Long Term Champ (Flair) and you're picking a JCP Interim Champ (Valentine) for 160+ days to set up a JCP Event (Starcade). That might just piss off the other promoters.

DiBiase? There never seemed to be a strong push by NWA Promoters to give him a run with the belt between June 1981 and the end of 1985 (when the NWA effectively fell apart). I get the notion that he was "considered" for the belt all the time. But there was a 4 year run where NWA Promoters was very happy to let Flair defend the title in their territories time after time after time rather than thinking, "Hey... why don't we let Ted have the belt for 12 months to freshen things up before going back to Flair?" I guess what I'm trying to say is that "considered" probably isn't the same thing as "a lot of people wanted to give it a try".

 

Also, at that point, did Ted mean dick in JCP to headline Starcade? I get the concept that "Flair could draw against any Heel Champ who took his belt and ran THAT angle?" But again, Harley was a known quantity to JCP Fans. They'd seen him defending that belt against their Heroes since 1977, with JCP Heroes never once beating him to win the title in JCP Land. There was something there. With Ted... ?

I have some questions about Starrcade 83 here.

 

How much was it "a JCP show" vs. "an NWA show"? And would there have been any possibility in running it somewhere other than Greensboro? For example, in Atlanta instead.

 

From what you're saying jdw the main dilemma here is that Valentine was "too JCPish" for the other NWA promoters and DiBiase was "not JCPish enough" for the JCP crowd.

 

If it came down to it, how do you see that being resolved? Would Crockett have persuaded the others to go with Valentine? If they'd have gone with DiBiase would there have been any question of not running it in Greensboro?

 

----------

 

Finally, is that really it? If it's not a former NWA champ are Valentine and DiBiase top options 1 and 2?

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Starrcade was a Crockett show through and through. Seven of the eight matches featured JCP mainstays. The only one that strikes me as being an exception was Abdullah vs. Carlos, and Abby was like Brody in that he never stayed in one place for too long, so he may very well have been in the midst of a run with Crockett.

 

Therefore, by definition, no, it wouldn't have worked if it was held in Atlanta. I don't know if it HAD to be in Greensboro (I'd assume that was the largest building they ran) but it had to be in the heart of the territory.

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Is it possible that the reverse is true...that Thesz found out about Harley getting reign 7 and decided to back the Southwest tournament out of spite (or something similar)?

 

That's possible.

 

 

Race getting reign 7 seemed like a no-brainer to me back then, and I was a teenager. I doubt Lou would have had much trouble finding out what the plans were moving forward from someone that knew them.

That's entirely possible.

 

Harley getting his seventh just seems like natural progression and a way to give some extra "oomph" to the match and therefore Flair when he regained it.

 

"Look fans. Lou Thesz was great. He was NWA World Champion 6 times and Harley Race was beaten that record".

 

Thesz's record had stood for 18 years. Some had to beat it eventually.

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