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Wrestling With The Past #1


Loss

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I still like that Bret Hart Dandy line. Doesn't bother me in the slightest. I wish you guys had spoken a bit more about Satanico, especially since Childs wasn't so convinced about his all-time great status in the past. I'd also be interested in a 1990 v. 1997 comparison for CMLL in the future as those are the two consensus best years for CMLL in the 90s with most people leaning towards 1997 because of the higher proportion of great matches.

 

With UWF, having seen every match on every show, I think it was a slightly better year than what was perhaps represented on the set. You could make a top 20 for that year as good as anything from New Japan but you can't say the same for the splinter promotions that follow.

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Yeah, Satanico got a bit overshadowed by all the Dandy praise. But he'd be at worst top five and quite possibly No. 2 on my best wrestlers of 1990 list. He was excellent in both trios and singles throughout the year and after the '80s set, I wouldn't be surprised if I have him in my top 20 all-time.

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Bit about WCW putting the Black Scorpion stuff in the credits reminds me of the story Nash says in his latest stop to Austin's podcast. A WCW merchandise rep showed Nash a design for an nWo shirt before they started coming out with the classic one. The only thing Nash said in response was: "We don't WORK for YOU!"

 

IOW, why have WCW's trademarks all over the nWo's merchandise at that point!

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Is there an RSS feed for this? Looks very intriguing.

There is a website that will convert a Soundcloud link into a subscribeable podcatcher link, but when I tried it on Parv's "groups" it kept subscribing to the main feed, and only had whatever is on the first page of Parv's full album as available episodes, which at the time (this past Friday morning) was this first episode of WWTP, and a handful of early WTBBP that Parv had uploaded onto the feed along with the WWTP episode.

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Feel free to move this tech stuff guys. It's not interesting at all and the show deserves more discussion around the actual wrestling.

 

The Soundcloud podcast application thing sucks, you don't get any email notification or anything, so I don't even know if it's going through or not. I really like the site but that has been the major drawback so far. I might just pull the plug on iTunes altogether soon because you do not want to see the .xml crap I have to fill out (and screw up) every single time, they don't exactly make it user friendly. Does pull in 100s of completely random listeners though.

 

All this talk of "WWTP" and "WTBBP" is also making my head spin. I reckon I've got mild dyslexia cos my eyes can't seem to tell them apart without real concentration.

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Loved the show, you guys did great work here. A few thoughts in no particular order.

 

- I have seen people make the FMW/Memphis comparison before and I wouldn't dispute it for a second, but the more Puerto Rico I watch the more obvious it is to me that they took a lot from WWC as well. To some degree WWC/Memphis are similar but I think the "garbage" elements of FMW were more Puerto Rico than they were Memphis and in general I think FMW has a more WWC inspired feel to it. Also it would not shock me one bit to learn that Onita watched and learned from Colon as they strike me as very similar babyface workers in many ways (also very similar in other ways that I have covered before).

I suspect this is true. I look forward to diving into Puerto Rico.

 

I think it's interesting that you guys sort of place Jarrett and Waltman in a similar camp of guys that were really, really great and for whatever reason aren't remembered for their strengths. I know you guys are generally higher on Waltman which isn't surprising though I do find the Eddie comp interesting and would love for one of you to argue it in more detail. I do wonder if Jarrett/Waltman types might be worth a thread on their own but I have no clue how to phrase it.

Yeah, I'm not sure how to describe that group of guys either. 1990-1997, Waltman has been consistently good to great. Eddy has been disappointing in the sense that he really was a guy devoid of charisma until his heel turn in 1993 and even then, there weren't a ton of standout great matches from that AAA run. He was fine in New Japan with a few great moments, but not at the level of even Akira Nogami, Norio Honaga or El Samurai, much less Liger, Otani, Sasuke or Kanemoto. His ECW matches aren't my thing because they are really just exhibitions, but at the same time, that's what they were designed to be, and they were really excellent exhibitions. So I won't criticize him for that too much. Now when he jumped to WCW in 1995, I really did jump on board and felt he started having good TV matches regularly. I'm a bigger fan of him as a WCW babyface than most people. But I don't know that he really wrapped his head around American psychology until 1997. From there on, I think he was mostly a great worker, but I've been disappointed in a lot of Eddy before that. Even Scorpio has been more consistent (which I know isn't a tough sell for you).

 

Waltman had an epic 1990, then the Lynn matches in 1991 Global that were good. A Hamada's UWF match in 1992 that was possibly my #2 Hamada's UWF match. Good run of WWF TV matches from 1993-1996 and a pretty solid worker in 1997. Expect for 1990, he never flirted with the top 10 or 20 wrestlers in the world, but he was consistently good.

 

How is Sean Waltman in 2013? I'm hoping you have a decent idea.

 

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Was overjoyed to hear you guys talk about the Luger/Flair/Sting stuff as Dave and I said a lot of the same things on our Luger show a couple of weeks back. Seems like consensus is forming on that at least within our little core group.

Loss and I have been privately comparing Luger and Sting for years. I think the main issue in outright calling Luger better was that Sting had the Vader series that is so awesome. We really started picking up steam when we picked up a bunch of the 1989 B shows where Luger was having really good TV matches on top of the Clash and PPV matches.

 

Yes, Sting's performances in the Vader series (and NOT because he is being carried by Vader) are probably better than anything Luger has ever done. But it's one feud and after that, options are pretty severely limited.

 

I still like that Bret Hart Dandy line. Doesn't bother me in the slightest. I wish you guys had spoken a bit more about Satanico, especially since Childs wasn't so convinced about his all-time great status in the past. I'd also be interested in a 1990 v. 1997 comparison for CMLL in the future as those are the two consensus best years for CMLL in the 90s with most people leaning towards 1997 because of the higher proportion of great matches.

 

With UWF, having seen every match on every show, I think it was a slightly better year than what was perhaps represented on the set. You could make a top 20 for that year as good as anything from New Japan but you can't say the same for the splinter promotions that follow.

It's still hard for me to talk about Satanico for whatever reason. I'm a big fan, but El Dandy is a guy who is easier to discuss. I hope that changes after the 80s lucha set.

 

I've seen some wonderful matches in 1997 CMLL so far, but nothing that touches the best stuff from 1990. It was just in a class by itself.

 

I'm willing to believe the UWF had a better year than was represented on the set, and look forward to filling in the gaps in my viewing after the 1999 Yearbook. RINGS in 1997 has been the best year a splinter group has had on any yearbook thus far, but yes, making a top 20 would be difficult.

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GREAT show....

 

ONe question...do you know of ANY podcasts that focus yearly on NJPW and AJPW in the detail that you guys covered the main stuff from the year?

 

Explaning the changes in both companies and big matches that happened immediately took me from interested in Japan to completely wanting to watch it all NOW...

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Maybe we should do a Puroresu Primer podcast and recommend "starter" matches in each style.

YES!! YES!! YES!!

 

If you could, aside from the starters....dive into a year by year look at NJPW and AJPW as well as the others that popped up...Even if a few years at a time are done...mentioning feuds and great matches from the feuds and dates would be SWANK..

 

Plus, you'd make cash from it, as you know people (like me) will be salivating to get a hold of a lot of it with more context for what I am about to see!!

 

If you need a newbie to Puro on the show to ask questions or be used to explain things to or just to taunt as I make dumb North American wrestling comparisons.....I am your man!!

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