pantherwagner Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 It's a self fulfilling prophecy. They stopped adding classic stuff a month or so after launch, so when people stopped watching they can point to it and say that's why they don't add more. They just added a boatload of ECW Hardcore TV after ignoring it for months, on the heels of finally getting around to adding more Nitros. Hopefully they get enough views to prompt them to add more. I think that they just seem to be overly fixated in the mid 90s while ignoring that there may be a market for early 90s Superstars or Horsemen Era NWA/WCW. At the very least, it seems odd that they don't seem to push harder for the Savage/Hogan/Dusty/Flair nostalgia audience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Well yeah. They're adding ECW and WCW stuff. That's the "old stuff" that there is a demand for. It's why they also keep releasing ECW and WCW DVD sets. There's a large audience for it. There isn't a large audience for AWA, Smokey Mountain, World Class, and Mid South. I mean I'D love it but I'm not the target audience. There's not a huge demand for 1920s silents on Netflix, but they are there because Netflix realizes there is some demand and if they have the content why not use it? Variety is king when it comes to a streaming service like the Network, and the Network does not provide adequate variety considering the library they have access to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 That's just it -- I can't imagine the costs in adding older footage to the network is tremendous, especially where there's really no capacity to remaster or otherwise improve the footage. If those costs are minimal it really makes no sense and can only help establish the network as *the* go-to archive for wrestling fans. I doubt this moves the needle much, if at all, but if the required investment is insignificant it seems like an easy call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Is some of the issue the subtitles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 That'd make sense. If there's a real cost in dollars and hours I'd expect a focus on more recent, better produced material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherwagner Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Was WWE CoD captioned? I thought it was, but I never had the service itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Yes. They had to because of Americans With Disabilities Act regulations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherwagner Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Then based on a rough estimation, this is the stuff that was shown on 24/7 / Classics on Demand / WWE Classics and should be ready to be uploaded whenever they want: - anything since the HD move + every DVD release ever - the entire Video Coliseum collection - every MSG show ever and over 200 big arena house shows (Boston/Spectrum/L.A...) - every AWA PPV/Supershow, a chunk of All-Star Wrestling 1981. - the entire TNT run including the Bobby Heenan Show - the entire Prime Time run from the day Heenan joined - ECW Hardcore TV until 1998 (probably all, but that's where they stopped) - Mid Atlantic 1981 and 1982 - the entire Raw, Nitro and Smackdown runs - chunks of Stampede Wrestling 1978 and 1979 - World Class from 1982 to 1984 - NWA/WCW Saturday Night from 1985 to 1988 - WWWF Championship Wrestling 1977 - WWF Mania 1993 - WCW Worldwide 1993 probably a lot more, I just put together this list in five minutes looking through a tape list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 What's funny is the stuff that would have needed the most time/effort to put up on the Network already was added. The Monday Night Wars Nitro episodes on WWE 24/7 were heavily edited to remove all mentions of Benoit. Those were all restored on the Network versions. Putting up the rest of the content from 24/7 is literally just a matter of copying over the video files. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 If I got all the CHVs I would be super happy. If you start throwing in arena shows from WWF and everywhere else I would be the happiest. I can't imagine that is too hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victory Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Well I'm just one dude but they won't be getting this one dude's money until they start putting up some of their territory footage. What is the point of spending the money to buy the libraries just to sit on them? This. I subscribed twice. Once in the beginning to only be let down after a few months and then again recently to see if anything new was added and I was disappointed again. Never again unless I hear about a ton of territory stuff added. I know I'm not the target audience but it's disappointing to say the least on what they have on there as far as 70's and 80's territory stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 I'm fairly certain the reason they bought all the libraries was to use footage in DVD releases. Even if adding all the old footage only adds another 100k subs, it's basically free money for them and mind boggling why they don't do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted October 9, 2015 Report Share Posted October 9, 2015 Because according to their numbers, no one cares about that stuff. Obviously it is self inflicted but of the subscribers they do have, not enough of them are seeking out the footage. They are more content with Total Divas, the podcasts, the network specials and etc. Like I've said before though, the network is not for the old school fans. It is for the Universe fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 Because according to their numbers, no one cares about that stuff. Obviously it is self inflicted but of the subscribers they do have, not enough of them are seeking out the footage. They are more content with Total Divas, the podcasts, the network specials and etc. Like I've said before though, the network is not for the old school fans. It is for the Universe fans. The thing is though, even if all the old footage only accounts for a small number of subscribers; it's worth it to get it on the Network. Mainly because it adds variety, but also because they already own the rights so putting it on the Network would equate to pure profit even if all it does is say add/keep around a thousand or so subscribers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 Assuming that the footage is ready to be uploaded without any alterations, that is...sure, that is true. I have no idea why it is something that isn't worth it to them but alas so it isn't. *Shrugs* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 That is why I encourage everyone who wants them to upload more territory footage to subscribe to NWAClassics. I mean the service by itself is fucking awesome and you'll very much enjoy it but if it becomes enough of a success then we all know it's in WWE's petty nature to decide to try and steal it's subscribers by suddenly going crazy uploading Mid-South stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherwagner Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 Well I'm just one dude but they won't be getting this one dude's money until they start putting up some of their territory footage. What is the point of spending the money to buy the libraries just to sit on them? This. I subscribed twice. Once in the beginning to only be let down after a few months and then again recently to see if anything new was added and I was disappointed again. Never again unless I hear about a ton of territory stuff added. I know I'm not the target audience but it's disappointing to say the least on what they have on there as far as 70's and 80's territory stuff. That's part of the problem. The view of their audience is too narrow. You are a wrestling fan who likes wrestling enough to go to a message board. I'm pretty sure you have a spare 10 bucks in your pocket every month - you should be the target audience too. If I got all the CHVs I would be super happy. If you start throwing in arena shows from WWF and everywhere else I would be the happiest. I can't imagine that is too hard. I have given up on them uploading any wrestling I am interested in (and, besides, NWA Classics fills in that gap now) but what you mentioned would be great. Every CHV and MSG show ever would really be tremendous. I grew up watching UK imports of the CHV tapes and I'm sure many others did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 I would like to see them do a show, sort of like Table for 3, but instead of the guys shooting the shit while eating, have them watch an old show & commentate on it. I would also like to see more Legends of Wrestling Roundtable discussions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBadMick Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 I would like to see them do a show, sort of like Table for 3, but instead of the guys shooting the shit while eating, have them watch an old show & commentate on it. I would also like to see more Legends of Wrestling Roundtable discussions. yeah, was there a reason they ended so abruptly? Last one I see listed was 'evolution of hardcore' in December 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 Then based on a rough estimation, this is the stuff that was shown on 24/7 / Classics on Demand / WWE Classics and should be ready to be uploaded whenever they want: - anything since the HD move + every DVD release ever - the entire Video Coliseum collection - every MSG show ever and over 200 big arena house shows (Boston/Spectrum/L.A...) - every AWA PPV/Supershow, a chunk of All-Star Wrestling 1981. - the entire TNT run including the Bobby Heenan Show - the entire Prime Time run from the day Heenan joined - ECW Hardcore TV until 1998 (probably all, but that's where they stopped) - Mid Atlantic 1981 and 1982 - the entire Raw, Nitro and Smackdown runs - chunks of Stampede Wrestling 1978 and 1979 - World Class from 1982 to 1984 - NWA/WCW Saturday Night from 1985 to 1988 - WWWF Championship Wrestling 1977 - WWF Mania 1993 - WCW Worldwide 1993 probably a lot more, I just put together this list in five minutes looking through a tape list. They had the online thing for several years too so you can add: Wrestling Challenge 1986-1990 Superstars 1990-1993 WCW Saturday Night 1995-1996 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 The roundtables were taped for 24/7 and just repurposed for the Network. 24/7 was an AWESOME service by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 I liked 24/7 a lot more than the Network honestly. I don't care if the Network has more content or gives me the PPVs for 10 bucks. At least on 24/7 you would get cool stuff like the Roundtables which as far as I'm concerned is better than any original content they've come up with for The Network. Plus you had a steady, reliable stream of new content that included *gasp* the dreaded territory footage that no one cares about. They were putting up a lot of different shows in chronological order so you could follow along with like 3-4 old shows a month. I remember 81-82 Mid Atlantic, 85 Saturday Night, 1983 World Class, and ECW TV specifically. Plus they were always putting up old MSG or Boston Garden shows. And the Monday Night Wars show that they have probably only just now gotten caught up to where Raw & Nitro were on 24/7 with the Network. The only advantage that the Network has over 24/7 is that when following along with the old Raws & Nitros they would rarely ever (although they did a few times) put up the PPVs that Raw or Nitro were building to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 Ignoring whether or not the subtitles/captions are part of the problem for a moment (because there's not really any other good reason why the Classics on Demand and Classics Online stuff hasn't been added), we also have to remember that Vince micromanages the network to a point and he was hands off for the two Classics services. They were able to be so eclectic because they were under the radar and the mission was old stuff anyway. I wonder if they've done any research to see how many of the Classics subscribers have been subscribing to the network. ~100,000 homes is not a tiny chunk that they should just ignore, and given the differences between the services, a relatively low overlap wouldn't be that surprising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherwagner Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 I liked 24/7 a lot more than the Network honestly. I don't care if the Network has more content or gives me the PPVs for 10 bucks. At least on 24/7 you would get cool stuff like the Roundtables which as far as I'm concerned is better than any original content they've come up with for The Network. Plus you had a steady, reliable stream of new content that included *gasp* the dreaded territory footage that no one cares about. The cool thing about 24/7 is that they would sometimes blow you away with some cool old shit, like early 60s Gorilla Monsoon in Stampede, a Harley Race title defense from 1973, "new" 70s AWA, Race vs. Graham, 1981 El Solitario in World Class, etc. None of the current uploads really are of much interest to footage geeks like us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted October 10, 2015 Report Share Posted October 10, 2015 Agreed. I'm not arguing that the 24/7 appealed to a wider fanbase than The Network but simply that The Network appeals less to the hardcore fan of older wrestling. I mean who is big on the 80s that hasn't already seen all the old WWF/NWA PPVs? Or the Clashes? Even if you only get an extra thousand or so subscribers by committing to upload an old territory, isn't it a good idea to appeal to as many people as possible? Every 1,000 subscribers is about an extra $10,000 of revenue. Is it really THAT expensive to do subtitles for closed captioning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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