ghost Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Trish is notable only in that she was a fitness model with zero wrestling experience who worked hard to become a perfectly acceptable wrestler (ie someone who didn't botch basic moves like most of the other terrible women's wrestlers at the time) and had buckets of charisma. She had 2 or 3 good matches and a lot of people who likely hadn't watched any other women's wrestling went nuts over her at the time. Her and Lita also took a number of hard bumps that none of the other women really did at the time; Trish had that hardcore match with Victoria (actually I think Ivory and someone had a hardcore match a few years before so it wasn't the first), being put through a table by the Dudleys, Lita threw herself off ladders, nearly broke her neck with a suicide dive, and took a beating from Austin and a steel chair. I think their long term impact was precisely zero. It's not as if they started pushing women's wrestling off the back of them; Trish and Lita main evented a Raw in 2004 and it took years for two women to main event a show again. Still they were part of a time which many people have fond memories off and were popular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 To the bigger point, Victoria, Jazz and Molly might have been better in ring talent than Trish (I think Jazz is horribly overrated and barely understand selling at all) but they certainly weren't better performers. Excellent, excellent post, which I've truncated for the sake of space. You basically posted exactly what I was going to. Molly Holly, in particular, could wrestle circles around Lita and Trish, but Lita and Trish were better "stars" than any of the other women, and that's still what matters in pro wrestling. Trish had the "look" they wanted anyway, but her hard work combined with that probably put her way over the hump. It was an easy decision for WWE to push her. She fit all the boxes and worked her ass off to improve. She may not have been a "natural" in the ring the same way Molly was, but so what? That has never been what WWE has recognized and rewarded. With that said, I loved Molly, found her hot, and was always frustrated that she never got a bigger push. Still, in retrospect, she did well for herself. Smart young lady booking herself into that head-shaving angle and spot. I may be reading into nothing because they kept harping on what "besties" both women were and are, but Lita seemed almost resentful at times of Trish's bigger push and picture perfect retirement. Lita's own final match - where she was treated like crap - was completely skipped over, for obvious reasons. It is possible to have a great relationship with a co-worker, but be resentful about how they get treated preferably compared to you, despite same work level, etc. As long as you percieve that your co-worker has little to nothing to do with the way the company treats them. Yes, but in public and on camera? It's one thing to have those views privately, or even share them with Trish, but to act that way in an official WWE-sanctioned documentary? Also, as thebrainfollower pointed out, Lita brought a lot of that on herself - some through no fault of her own (injuries) and others that were definitely her fault (fucking around with a married man and "betraying" a beloved underdog wrestler). Look, I'm not debating the morality, or lack thereof, of her actions - I'm just saying it wasn't a very smart business decision. We never heard anything like that about Trish, as follower also pointed out, which tells me she had a much better head on her shoulders than Lita. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerva Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Based on the Stone Cold Podcast, Brock's biography should have been called "I don't give a shit" Well based on the show, we are definitely not getting Austin vs Brock at WM in Dallas. If we are then someone was a real moron but there was no build at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotJayTabb Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 I think their long term impact was precisely zero. It's not as if they started pushing women's wrestling off the back of them; Trish and Lita main evented a Raw in 2004 and it took years for two women to main event a show again. Still they were part of a time which many people have fond memories off and were popular. I think unfortunately Trish's impact was that the WWE spent years thinking you could just hire any model and teach them to become a wrestler. That the likes of Candice Michelle and Kelly Kelly came nowhere near to her is a testament to how good Trish was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Lita had an impact on fans. Without Lita, there's no AJ Lee, right? At least that's how the story has been portrayed, I'm not sure how close to reality that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Lita was just so 90s it was the perfect character for the time. Like grunge and Zima, it's hard to see what the appeal was now, you kind of had to be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Lita was just so 90s it was the perfect character for the time. She debuted in 2000. Pro-wrestling... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherwagner Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Lita with the red hair, cargo pants, etc. was a perfect look for the time. She's the cool chick that you know listened to cool music like The Prodigy and Biohazard (well, yeah...) and you know she'd talk to you while Trish would not even give you the time of the day. You can say the same about the Hardyz, really. They were cool dudes with a cool look. Nowadays sometimes you still see in some London neighbourhoods a guy or two dressed in baggy pants, tight fit shirts, arm sleeves, bandanas, facemasks, crosses'n'skulls, etc., and they look like absolute twats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fakeplastictrees Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 When I watched a Lita match I felt like the kid standing in the parade watching a nude Emperor walk down the street in his new finest garmet. Lita is a prime example of when WWE wants to make someone look REALLY good, they can do it with flying colors. Lita was a poor worker, average (and sometimes below average) promo, not much in the looks department, and was a danger in the ring to herself and her co-workers and yet despite all of this she is a WWE HOF. She was popular and WWE kept the gravy train running despite the deminishing returns. I do not think history will be too kind to the workrate of Lita or Trish. Trish was OKAY for the time, but fuck. I don't feel like going on a Lita rant now, but I will say that if WWE wasn't so interesting in breaking kayfabe left-and-right and patting itself on the back a Sasha/Bayley GREATEST FEUDS (NXT Edition) would be pretty fantasic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Ewiak Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 Say what you will about Lita & Trish, but they probably did help current women wrestlers that are actually good workers, whether it be on NXT or SHIMMER actually interested in pro wrestling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 You can say the same about the Hardyz, really. They were cool dudes with a cool look. Nowadays sometimes you still see in some London neighbourhoods a guy or two dressed in baggy pants, tight fit shirts, arm sleeves, bandanas, facemasks, crosses'n'skulls, etc., and they look like absolute twats. Funny. Back then the one thing that I really disliked about the Hardys, even before some of their work, was their look. They looked like absolute twats to me back then already, but then again, maybe I was too old already. They were the perfect blowjob tag team for the time, and Lita was the perfect blowjob girl to tag with them I guess. I just didn't relate one bit. When I watched a Lita match I felt like the kid standing in the parade watching a nude Emperor walk down the street in his new finest garmet. Lita is a prime example of when WWE wants to make someone look REALLY good, they can do it with flying colors. Lita was a poor worker, average (and sometimes below average) promo, not much in the looks department, and was a danger in the ring to herself and her co-workers and yet despite all of this she is a WWE HOF. She was popular and WWE kept the gravy train running despite the deminishing returns. Yeah. Pretty much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 Isn't Lita an agent...err "producer" for the main roster women's matches now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 If someone knows how to put a match together, that should be her... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrainfollower Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 To one comment about Trish looking like the sort of woman who wouldn't give you the time of day, while she looks like that, having met her a few times that's not true. I found it funny that when WWE created a boyfriend for her in the Mickie James storyline, they used a male model, when in fact she's been dating and then married to the same guy since high school and he's not exactly Brad Pitt. Agree about Lita. WWE did everything in its power to make her a star, it's not their fault she spent over 3 years of her 6.5 year career injured, stayed sloppy and somewhat dangerous (she was STILL doing the moonsault to the knees when she left) and had very poor judgment. I'd say things turned out about how they should have to be honest. Trish encouraging WWE to search for models to find the next Trish Stratus..........yeah that's a problem. It still haunts them today, as someone like Dana Brooke is basically Trish mixed with Beth Phoenix without a quarter of the talent of either sadly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chief Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 Trish encouraging WWE to search for models to find the next Trish Stratus..........yeah that's a problem. It still haunts them today, as someone like Dana Brooke is basically Trish mixed with Beth Phoenix without a quarter of the talent of either sadly. I think Dana's gonna turn out to be pretty decent in a couple of years. People forget, she had ZERO experience before NXT and even then she's only been on TV there for six months. I think she has a lot of the little character things down well, the rest will come in time. Being good in your very first year as a professional is an attribute that very few have possessed. And this isn't directed at you in particular Brain, but I also feel that there's an unfair stigma against anyone who hasn't toured the indie scene or been a lifelong fan. I don't see anything wrong with hiring fitness models/powerlifters/football players that have no wrestling experience. I don't think there's a set in stone blueprint for building a successful wrestler, history has shown that successful wrestlers come from all kinds of backgrounds. If a model or a football player can hang, then I don't see why their pre-wrestling background should matter. Obviously having some prior experience helps, but it isn't the be-all end-all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 The new Table For 3 with Truth, Miz, and Curtis Axel is fucking great, and really funny. And there's one part that's incredibly touching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrainfollower Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 I did not know that. I am not sure what they can do with Dana after being squashed like a bug at the last big show, but if those were her legit first matches they were okay. I would have held her back from TV for a lot longer though if it were me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jushin muta liger Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 Has anyone seen the Flair vs Steamboat Rivalries shows yet? Do they use the 70's film? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chief Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 Has anyone seen the Flair vs Steamboat Rivalries shows yet? Do they use the 70's film? Not sure if there's any seventies but there's definitely some early eighties stuff. Some of it even looks like it may have been taken from YouTube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 Yes they use 70's footage from you tube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jushin muta liger Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 That's a damn shame if they ripped it from YouTube. I'll check it out later cause the CWF 70's footage they used in the Dusty/Flair looks really good when its remastered for their documentary stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrainfollower Posted October 24, 2015 Report Share Posted October 24, 2015 The Bret-Andre match on his last set is a youtube rip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chief Posted October 24, 2015 Report Share Posted October 24, 2015 Sometimes youtube is their only option for stuff. Unfortunately, not every territory preserved their libraries. R-Truth/Miz/Axel table for 3 is probably the best one yet. Truth is such an interesting guy in real life, his life would make for an incredible movie. When he saw the pics of Curt Hennig, that was pretty awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidebottom Posted October 24, 2015 Report Share Posted October 24, 2015 R-Truth/Miz/Axel table for 3 is probably the best one yet. Truth is such an interesting guy in real life, his life would make for an incredible movie. When he saw the pics of Curt Hennig, that was pretty awesome. I thought it was a poor episode personally (not dismissing your opinion at all though). It just seemed very thrown together like it could have been in a drive through. I couldn't even tell whether it was a real restaurant? That aside, just wasn't a fan of the content. I much prefer it when they just talk about wrestling for the whole time, and when it's wrestlers I care about. I can't see them doing a better one than last weeks with Vader / Sting / Dallas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted October 25, 2015 Report Share Posted October 25, 2015 Truth be told, the only Table for 3 episodes that I have enjoyed so far were the New Day & Ryback/Ziggler/Bryan. All the other ones, there's been one person on the panel that ruined it all for me. I think it's cool they're adding original content like this now though & I hope they keep it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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