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My problem with that though is you get to 55 and you killed yourself and have nothing to show for it. I understand the art argument but I think you need to balance that with your wallet sometimes too. Getting a couple of years in the WWE at the end of your career can set you up nicely.

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My problem with that though is you get to 55 and you killed yourself and have nothing to show for it. I understand the art argument but I think you need to balance that with your wallet sometimes too. Getting a couple of years in the WWE at the end of your career can set you up nicely.

Which was exactly my point.

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I mean it's his choice nut what if he played ball and got 5 years with WWE and had a couple hundred thousand in his bank right now? I get that money isn't everything but for something like wrestling or other jobs where you have a limited shelf life you need to cash in at some point.

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Sabu love was reported at the time too. Vince asked one of the agents why he wasn't hired years earlier. He liked how old school he was, apparently.

 

This was during the same period that Vince said casually in a meeting that 1979-1985 was his favorite era of wrestling, and Tony Atlas was hired back for no apparent reason.

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The hard truth: Sabu is a nobody. He's already forgotten outside of message boards like this one.

 

Like The Bushwackers and George "The Animal" Steele before him, Mick Foley cashed in his chips. He played the Mr. Socko hand and became a comedy character - and in the process, he turned himself into a more beloved figure than ever. He still has a career inside and outside the industry. He'll be remembered long after he's gone.

 

Yes, Sabu made a shit-ton of sacrifices for his "art." So did Mick Foley.

 

One of them was smart at the end of his career. The other was Sabu.

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Dude, did Sabu run over your dog or something?

As the board's resident Sabu fanboy (immortalized when I was his high vote in the GWE) I strongly disagree with your opinions when it comes to him.

There is no way Sabu acquiescing to Vince McMahon's and the WWE creative team's "tweaks" to his character would have ever worked, anyhow. If Sabu had changed who he was, he wouldn't have been Sabu. His Uncle made him Sabu. Sabu was not only trained by The Sheik, but he was his nephew and grew up around him. Sabu didn't have a father in the picture and pretty much idolized The Sheik from the time he was a kid. Sabu has gone on record as saying he has designed his entire career as a living tribute to his Uncle. So he did (and does) things the way his Uncle did, and would do them no other way.

I know I harp on this point a lot, but in my signature there is a link to a book called "Drawing Heat" by Professor Jim Freedman. The Sheik features heavily in this book. Prof. Freedman was never a wrestling fan and knew nothing about Pro Wrestling when he started writing that book, so he met and got to know The Sheik from a totally unbiased perspective. The picture he paints of The Sheik (which has been pretty much confirmed in every Shoot Interview where his name has come up) is of a man who didn't have "a gimmick." His wife called him Sheik. His kids called him Sheik. He took being The Sheik deadly serious and there is no way that didn't rub off on Sabu.

Secondly, Sabu (by his own admission) sucks at promos. Sabu tells a hilarious story where during his training, his Uncle asked him to cut a promo. Sabu tried, and The Sheik said to him: "Promise me you'll never do that again." They agreed that he (like his Uncle) wouldn't speak. Everybody else talks, and yells, and points at the camera, and threatens, and puts themselves over...so he wouldn't say a word. He'd just point up. He doesn't even like talking to people he doesn't know in private, which is one of the reasons he smokes so much pot. He has Social Anxiety Disorder and gets so anxious when he is asked to speak in front of people he doesn't know, that he stutters. This is noticeable in the aforementioned Kayfabe Commentary "Breaking Kayfabe" interview. There is no way that he ever would have become comfortable enough cutting promos - especially scripted promos - that it would have been enough to satisfy Vince McMahon and the WWE.

Finally, the main factor is that Sabu hated working for WWE. Hated it with a passion. He freely admits that he "sold out" and worked there for the money but he was so miserable there that in the end, he kept doing things trying to get himself fired - and eventually he did. The big difference between Mick Foley and Sabu is that Foley was willing to do pretty much anything to succeed in the WWF and make money. I don't think Sabu is adverse to making money - especially considering the medical bills he has had to deal with over the past few years - but he has gone on record saying that there are plenty of things he wouldn't and won't do to make it.

I don't think Sabu is a nobody. He will be remembered by a lot of hardcore fans. Hell, I think he is actually pretty damn unique, which is not easy to pull off in Pro Wrestling.

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Sabu ran over my pet iguana.

 

No, seriously, that was a fantastic post, Thread Killer.

 

You obviously know more about Sabu than I do, particularly as it pertains to his personal life. Yeah, I can say "well, he should have gone into WWE with a positive attitude" or "things were different in The Sheik's day and not everything he did applies to today's version of the business," but that would really just be me halfheartedly arguing for the sake of it. I won't do that, because your post accomplished something rare - it convinced me to see the other side of an issue. While I still believe in a lot of what I said about wrestlers and wrestling in general, I also think your defense was pretty damn compelling when it comes to Sabu the person specifically.

 

P.S. You've piqued my curiosity re: the Freedman book. I've downloaded a free sample to my Kindle.

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The majority of the information about Sabu's personal life I learned during the aforementioned "Breaking Kayfabe" interview he did with Kayfabe Commentaries. That is a series of Shoot Interviews Sean Oliver does where he focuses on the personal lives of the subject and if you are a Sabu fan, I can't recommend that interview enough. I've seen pretty much all the shoots Sabu has done, but that is the one where he is by far at his most open and candid. He even comments during the interview that he is comfortable enough with Sean Oliver (due to the two previous interviews they had done, in addition to their working relationship) that he doesn't feel too anxious talking to him. That is also the interview where he gets into detail about his time in the WWE, what went wrong, how they tried to change him, and how he felt about himself there.

 

C.S., I hope you'll like Drawing Heat. You have to keep in mind, that book was originally published in 1988, long before Mick Foley wrote "Have A Nice Day" and opened the doors for the million wrestling books that followed. I fully grant you that the book is pretty "Toronto-centric." It's mostly about how the Toronto Wrestling Office run by the Tunney family tried to run an independent promoter named Dave McKigney out of business. McKigney (known as The Canadian Wildman) was infamous for two reasons. Firstly, he used to wrestle a bear on his shows, until the bear attacked and killed his girlfriend. Secondly, McKigney was driving the van during the car accident that killed Adrian Adonis and he was killed himself in the accident. This book came out before the accident, but I understand the latest printings have a new final chapter covering the accident and McKigney's death.

 

However, one of the main stars of Dave McKigney's shows was The Sheik. By this time the Sheik was long past his prime, however he liked working for McKigney. Sabu actually got his start working for McKigney too, wrestling as "Terry S.R." Professor Freedman got to know The Sheik as they both traveled with McKigney, and the chapters about The Sheik are pretty eye-opening. I might have suspected they were being embellished for dramatic effect, but all the other stories about The Sheik seem to bear those types of stories out.

 

I appreciate you giving my side of the argument some thought, at the least. :)

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Took me a solid half-hour to find this again, but it's worth it...

 

An amazing article about the Original Sheik, written by his daughter:

 

https://jenfarhat.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/life-with-a-madman-jack-detroit-july-2011.pdf (PDF file)

 

BTW, in the Drawing Heat sample I read, McKigney is definitely mentioned. There's a acknowledgements section at the beginning discussing his death, with the author lamenting that he wishes McKigney was still alive to enjoy its publication and re-publication.

 

 

qUj1Brw.jpg

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I never get this attitude? We are going to chastise everybody who doesn't do something they don't want to do, because they could had got money?

 

Money isn't everything.

Who said anything about money? I said career longevity. Yes, money (and the more important part here, security) is part of that, but not all of it. It sure as hell beats prostituting himself in high school gyms for $50 a shot like a weathered old gigolo, which is probably what he's doing now. "The Wrestler," anyone?

 

Sabu made his choice, he cared more about something else than money and career longevity. Who are you to tell him he made the wrong choice?

 

Do you know if he's happy or not happy right now with his life?

 

 

In his KC Breaking Kayfabe interview from a year or so ago he seemed pretty despondent. When asked if he thought he stayed around too ling he said "probably" and in the interview he did in the UK about being offered the WWF role as Sultan he seemed to acknowledge he probably should've taken it in hindsight. I don't think Sabu thinks he can't survive the consequences of his choices but he does certainly seem to be more accepting to admit he shouldn't have made some of the choices he did.

 

Which is completely his right.

 

I just hate the notion that somebody automatically made the wrong choice because they turned dome some money or career opportunity. Everybody has different goals and needs in life.

 

You realize you could use your same logic of "it's fine if it makes them happy" argument to deny getting help for drug users who deny there's a problem, right? Besides that, wrestling, just like boxing and MMA, is a very physically demanding activity that carries with it quite a few consequences that aren't obvious until it's too late. It is a pretty well documented problem that quite a few old timers didn't learn how to manage money and stuck around too long. I don't think I've seen anyone forced to stick around glad that they passed off the opportunity to leave with a truckload of money and their heath, or people who did get out early who regret they didn't get to live like Randy "The Ram" Robinson.

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I never get this attitude? We are going to chastise everybody who doesn't do something they don't want to do, because they could had got money?

 

Money isn't everything.

Who said anything about money? I said career longevity. Yes, money (and the more important part here, security) is part of that, but not all of it. It sure as hell beats prostituting himself in high school gyms for $50 a shot like a weathered old gigolo, which is probably what he's doing now. "The Wrestler," anyone?

 

Sabu made his choice, he cared more about something else than money and career longevity. Who are you to tell him he made the wrong choice?

 

Do you know if he's happy or not happy right now with his life?

 

 

In his KC Breaking Kayfabe interview from a year or so ago he seemed pretty despondent. When asked if he thought he stayed around too ling he said "probably" and in the interview he did in the UK about being offered the WWF role as Sultan he seemed to acknowledge he probably should've taken it in hindsight. I don't think Sabu thinks he can't survive the consequences of his choices but he does certainly seem to be more accepting to admit he shouldn't have made some of the choices he did.

 

Which is completely his right.

 

I just hate the notion that somebody automatically made the wrong choice because they turned dome some money or career opportunity. Everybody has different goals and needs in life.

 

You realize you could use your same logic of "it's fine if it makes them happy" argument to deny getting help for drug users who deny there's a problem, right? Besides that, wrestling, just like boxing and MMA, is a very physically demanding activity that carries with it quite a few consequences that aren't obvious until it's too late. It is a pretty well documented problem that quite a few old timers didn't learn how to manage money and stuck around too long. I don't think I've seen anyone forced to stick around glad that they passed off the opportunity to leave with a truckload of money and their heath, or people who did get out early who regret they didn't get to live like Randy "The Ram" Robinson.

 

Wow, no. Obviously I'm not saying you should do whatever makes you happy even if it's harmful. However, you can be happy without having a lot of money. More money does not mean more happiness.

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No, but peace of mind breeds happiness. And a certain sense of peace comes from feeling secure. Financial security is key in our capitalistic world. That's just reality.

 

Of course it's great to feel fulfilled artistically and creatively. But, when push comes to shove, responsibilities will take priority. Not everyone can realistically afford to pursue Disney fairy tale goals over real world bills & obligations.

 

Obviously the key is in finding balance & a comfortable middle ground. If we're using Sabu as one end of the spectrum, then look no further than a guy like RVD for an example of that middle ground. The guy's probably perfectly satisfied with his legacy and impact in th business. Plus he made some money-driven moves along the way - enough to set himself up comfortably. Now he can call his own shots as he pleases.

 

That's an attainable goal, which ticks off the artistic AND financial boxes. It's a little silly to pretend the only options are "total sellout" or "broke bum Randy the Ram."

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I don't know Sabu's current state, but is really broke bum Randy the Ram?

 

The whole thing is, is Sabu happy with his life? If he is, then you can't say it was stupid for him to not do something with the WWE. If he really regrets not having that money and is miserable today, then you may be right. However, I don't think any of us have enough info to make that judgement.

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Well, about 3 years ago, when he came in for the indy I was working for, that night he trashed the hotel room and stole the coffee pot so I don't think that's indicative of a financially stable, satisfied life.

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I never get this attitude? We are going to chastise everybody who doesn't do something they don't want to do, because they could had got money?

 

Money isn't everything.

Who said anything about money? I said career longevity. Yes, money (and the more important part here, security) is part of that, but not all of it. It sure as hell beats prostituting himself in high school gyms for $50 a shot like a weathered old gigolo, which is probably what he's doing now. "The Wrestler," anyone?

 

Sabu made his choice, he cared more about something else than money and career longevity. Who are you to tell him he made the wrong choice?

 

Do you know if he's happy or not happy right now with his life?

 

 

I know he eventually went to WWE but im not sure how his run would have gone during the invasion when you look how they treated Tommy Dreamer during that time frame. All the years later Sabu finally came in and he basically got treated like a jobber. Sure there was a interest in making money after the ONS event but I think they shouldnt have used the same 3 letters and came up with something else or at least not used the old ECW guys.

 

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The whole thing is, is Sabu happy with his life? If he is, then you can't say it was stupid for him to not do something with the WWE. If he really regrets not having that money and is miserable today, then you may be right. However, I don't think any of us have enough info to make that judgement.

 

I was poking around and found the clip from the KC shoot where Sabu talked about his time in WWE.

(We don't seem to be able to post YouTube videos anymore?)

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All I know about Sabu is that Melissa Coates is his valet now doing a genie gimmick and seems to be somewhat of a legit manager for him as she hustles for bookings on Facebook for the two of them.

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Pretty good episode of the Prichard podcast this week, clocking in at a tight 77 minutes, about AJ Styles in TNA.

 

Yes, there was footage of TNA.

 

Yes, the Global Wrestling Network got a plug at the end (talk about an identity crisis - their streaming serviced is named after a failed cash-for-gold promotion - and the words Impact or TNA are included nowhere in it).

 

I don't believe this was ever covered on the regular podcast, so it should be all new content.

 

All of the news was new - to me, at least, as following TNA was something I could never stomach for long.

 

The show covers only Prichard's time in TNA - from 2010 to a couple of years later - so it's that time period and AJ's departure that are mainly focused on.

 

They talk about the office's perception of AJ at the time Bruce came in, some of the booking decisions, and go into his contract and exit in great detail.

 

They also cover some of the non-AJ stuff going on in TNA at the time, such as Flair showing up to the WWE Hall of Fame while still under contract to TNA.

 

Maybe it's just me, but Conrad seemed pissed off in a non-working way this week. Maybe a big mortgage fell through?

 

Overall, I thought it was a fun listen.

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Never thought we would see Claire Lynch on a WWE show but there she was :blink:

 

Or Kenny Omega.

 

(I think he'll sign eventually, but certainly not anytime soon.)

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I think you'll see Omega and the Bucks do it to get a final payday before retirement.

 

Which makes them both smarter than Sabu.

 

Seriously though, I watched the clip Thread Killer posted and actually found myself agreeing with Sabu.

 

One clip led to another, and I gotta ask, what the fuck is with Sean Oliver? He always looks like he's ready to fall asleep.

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