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Just now, NintendoLogic said:

I was speaking about the Blue Lives Matter slogan in general since it had been brought up. If a conversation is about X and someone brings up Y in relation to X, it's not unheard of for people to discuss aspects of Y that have nothing to do with X. It happens quite frequently on message boards. This is all pretty far removed from Pro Wrestling Only, so I'll just leave it at that.

Yeah, you're right. This was a pretty silly road for me to go down. I don't even like the Undertaker.

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Two episodes in and this series has been outstanding so far, in my opinion.  The Undertaker has always been so private and gone to such great lengths to "protect his character" so now it's amazing to see the amount of personal access he gave this documentary crew. Sitting around joking with his wife, playing with his kids, interacting with his coworkers, and especially some of the personal interviews he gave, I did not expect.  Honestly I thought this would be more of a typical WWE Network "puff piece."  They certainly have highlighted a lot of "rah rah WWE" interviews and really played up how much Mark Calloway loves Vince McMahon. They have also stacked the program with the obligatory complimentary soundbytes from countless WWE stars and executives praising The Undertaker to the high heavens...but that was to be expected, and to be fair I think their admiration is genuine. All pro-WWE content aside, I still think so far this series has been very revealing.

There have been a couple of legitimately moving and emotional moments. I can honestly say I never expected to watch a documentary in which I saw The Undertaker waxing poetic about how much he loves his wife and how much she has helped him. I am actually quite surprised at how vulnerable he has been portrayed, how much he admitted he is insecure about how he is seen by the fans and his peers and struggling with his "legacy."  Watching him tear up while watching the WM33 Main Event with his wife, being embarrassed by his performance was not something I expected to see in this documentary.  Talking about how he feels he let Roman Reigns down, and actually apologizing to him. Seeing how disappointed he was that he and Cena only got 5 minutes at WM34, because he wanted a competitive match to try and make up for the previous year was also something I wouldn't have predicted.

Considering how good this series has been so far, I just find it equal parts amusing, baffling and ultimately sad, that one of the main talking points that a small but vocal group of fans have come away with, is complaints about what Mark Calloway has written on his t-shirts. I consider myself to be a reasonably observant person, and I can honestly say that the only shirt he has worn so far that I even noticed was that hideous canary yellow Andre The Giant shirt with the Japanese script on it.  I guess I should be finding some hidden alt-right meaning in that, and complaining about it on Twitter.

The funny thing is, were it not for the pandemic I probably wouldn't have even watched this series.  I don't even consider myself a fan of The Undertaker and I usually avoid WWE documentaries for the most part.  I got about 15 minutes into the first episode of the  "Ruthless Aggression" series before turning it off. I generally can't stand WWE, but I'm not so blinded by bias against them that I can't admit when they produce something that is actually good.

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For someone supporting such things I find abhorrent, he seems to me to be a very tolerant person, to have stayed quiet this long. If it's all just in the shirts he wears or subtle tweets like that then I'm good with it. By virtue of the fact he has worked with people of different ethnicities, sexualities, and other social status and almost no one has a bad thing to say about him whatever way he swings politically doesn't matter in the face of that. I'm the one person in my family who doesn't support those views myself so I know all what it means to break bread with "enemies".

It is hard not to be cynical of the "rah-rah" stuff and being aware of how much of Vince's Kool-Aid has been imbibed by him. Then again that is a major factor in having fueled his performance and competitive drive. Same with Shawn, Triple H, and plenty of others who came after them too. It's at the heart of the company's success, something that might be lost in all the flash and bang (not to mention "creative") they do in presenting shows like WrestleMania. 

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I'm not sure what took me so long to start The Undertaker: The Last Ride, but I went through the first two episodes last night and will be watching the third tonight.

As everyone else has already said, this is extremely well done and a compelling look at The Undertaker out of character. While he has "broken character" in the past, it was only for tiny clips on his wife's Instagram or whatever - never nearly as in-depth as this.

All of the little backstage moments are cool as hell to see.

I was surprised by the strength of the friendship between Vince McMahon and The Undertaker. It's one thing to hear about it and quite another thing to see Vince getting emotional and Taker admitting Vince is someone he'd take a bullet for.

Michelle McCool also comes across really well as Undertaker's wife and the rock in his life, not to mention still being a stunning beauty.

Some questions:

- Was the Undertaker/Vince conversation about ending the streak shown or mentioned here? I kept looking for it, but I don't remember seeing/hearing it. I read about it on one of the newz sites and assumed it was from a recap of this show, but maybe it was from a separate interview he did?

- What is the big hullabaloo about the shirts? Is there more than meets the eye to that black American flag shirt, for example? Not to sound naive - I am genuinely wondering - I know the MAGA alt-right operates in "coded" messages because they don't have the honesty and integrity to put anything out there in a straightforward manner. But...Pro Wrestling Only, so I'll leave it at that. (I love the hell out of that yellow Japanese Andre shirt though and want one ASAP!)

- Was the Undertaker/Roman match really as bad as he thought? I remember it being a bit long and plodding at times, but more or less fine overall. Not a classic by any means, but not necessarily embarrassing either. He seemed really shaken by it though, comparing himself to Fat Elvis. As much as I want to see Undertaker for many more years, part of me think it's a shame he didn't retire on that note with leaving his hat and boots in the ring, because it was so perfect.

On 5/19/2020 at 2:32 PM, The Thread Killer said:

I usually avoid WWE documentaries for the most part.  

Why? All of the ones I've watched on the Network have been excellent (Mark Henry, etc.). Some of the older DVD docs definitely smacked of WWE bubble ass-kissing and revisionist history though. Even the recent "Ruthless Aggression" doc had a bit of that (particularly the creative revisionism about changing WWF to WWE and "getting the F out" ). But the majority of the Network-era docs are actually fantastic - particularly the ones where someone dies and they have less than a week to put something together (like that Dusty doc). It shows you how good their video team is, because the quality is on par with anything from ESPN or HBO.

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I just remember Taker vs Reigns having multiple obvious botches and basically falling flat. It felt like watching broken down Andre, but unlike with Andre, the match wasn't able to rise above Taker's limitations. Didn't help coming at the end of a 7 hour death march Mania 

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3 minutes ago, C.S. said:

- What is the big hullabaloo about the shirts? Is there more than meets the eye to that black American flag shirt, for example? Not to sound naive - I am genuinely wondering - I know the MAGA alt-right operates in "coded" messages because they don't have the honesty and integrity to put anything out there in a straightforward manner. But...Pro Wrestling Only, so I'll leave it at that. (I love the hell out of that yellow Japanese Andre shirt though and want one ASAP!)

As stated, the Blue Lives Matter thing started as a response to the Black Lives Matter movement that came about as the result of several instances of police shooting black people first and asking questions later and normally facing no repercussions for it. Sporting Blue Lives Matter gear generally gives the impression you're okay with black people being shot by police for little or no reason and/or you are willingly keeping yourself naive about what it means.

If you browse the Nine Line site all of Taker's gear comes from, it pretends to just be a good ol' American Pride type company that just wants to honor THA TROOPS. Actually looking at their offerings shows that they're almost entirely all extremely right wing, and a large portion seem to be devoted to pro-police and anti Colin Capernick (all the I STAND FOR THE ANTHEM ones) which leaves an impression anyone wearing said shirts feels a certain way about black folks.

I think part of the response from fans is because while it shouldn't be jarring that a 50 something from Texas has such views, seeing Taker go from keeping kayfabe at all costs to basically becoming MAGA The Wrestler was quite the flipped switch.

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10 minutes ago, sek69 said:

 As stated, the Blue Lives Matter thing started as a response to the Black Lives Matter movement that came about as the result of several instances of police shooting black people first and asking questions later and normally facing no repercussions for it. Sporting Blue Lives Matter gear generally gives the impression you're okay with black people being shot by police for little or no reason and/or you are willingly keeping yourself naive about what it means.

If you browse the Nine Line site all of Taker's gear comes from, it pretends to just be a good ol' American Pride type company that just wants to honor THA TROOPS. Actually looking at their offerings shows that they're almost entirely all extremely right wing, and a large portion seem to be devoted to pro-police and anti Colin Capernick (all the I STAND FOR THE ANTHEM ones) which leaves an impression anyone wearing said shirts feels a certain way about black folks.

I think part of the response from fans is because while it shouldn't be jarring that a 50 something from Texas has such views, seeing Taker go from keeping kayfabe at all costs to basically becoming MAGA The Wrestler was quite the flipped switch.

No, I know what Blue Lives Matter is - and I agree with everything you said - I'm just wondering which shirts are actually Blue Lives Matter shirts. Because unless you know what to look for, they appear to be cheap, tacky American flag shirts you'd find at a gas station or a convenience store. (Again, a complete lack of honesty and integrity from the MAGA, alt-right, Blue Lives Matter, etc. cult - everything is "coded" and nothing is straightforward.)

 

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16 minutes ago, PhilTLL said:

It's not black and white with Dustin, based on what I've seen on Facebook.

He's a "good ol' boy" in some respects, but also has no patience for transphobia because one of his kids is trans. 

Edit:

 

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2 hours ago, sek69 said:

As stated, the Blue Lives Matter thing started as a response to the Black Lives Matter movement that came about as the result of several instances of police shooting black people first and asking questions later and normally facing no repercussions for it.

Blue Lives Matter started in response to two NYPD officers being murdered by someone who was angry about Eric Garner. You can be skeptical of their aims (I'm no fan of extending hate crime protections to cops), but it does no good to strawman their stated purpose and goals.

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2 hours ago, C.S. said:

It's not black and white with Dustin, based on what I've seen on Facebook.

He's a "good ol' boy" in some respects, but also has no patience for transphobia because one of his kids is trans. 

Edit:

 

Does that mean he's okay with discriminating against people unless they're in his family or house?  Legitimate question.

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13 minutes ago, WingedEagle said:

Does that mean he's okay with discriminating against people unless they're in his family or house?  Legitimate question.

I realize you're being facetious and asking a rhetorical question, but I obviously don't have the answer. 

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I have definitely enjoyed parts of The Last Ride, but it all felt very same-y after a while. He's in a lot of pain, but wants a classic match to go out on. That point is made, and made, and made ... and made. When they move past that, they make that point some more. It's fascinating for all the behind the scenes clips, though.

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23 hours ago, PhilTLL said:

Speaking of which, I wonder if Taker has some sort of sponsorship deal with this company - because every shirt he's worn in this documentary is from them (with the exception of that amazing yellow Japanese Andre shirt). 

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On 5/25/2020 at 4:23 PM, Loss said:

I have definitely enjoyed parts of The Last Ride, but it all felt very same-y after a while. He's in a lot of pain, but wants a classic match to go out on. That point is made, and made, and made ... and made. When they move past that, they make that point some more. It's fascinating for all the behind the scenes clips, though.

It's interesting to me because the Michael Jordan The Last Dance was so successful & now wrestling has The Last Ride. I don't know how successful it is, as we never really get WWE Network information other that the subscription number they give investors which includes free memberships. But I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot more of these style of episodic, documentary like shows. Not just as a whole, but even just within the confines of professional wrestling, I think we're just getting started. Especially now during CoVid-19. 

In the sports world, I wouldn't be surprised to see them on the likes of people such as Tiger Woods or Mike Tyson & in wrestling, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw them in other promotions. It feels like WWE is definitely going to do ones on Triple H, Shawn Michaels & Ric Flair. 

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3 hours ago, Coffey said:

I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot more of these style of episodic, documentary like shows. Not just as a whole, but even just within the confines of professional wrestling, I think we're just getting started.  

WWE Network has been doing them all along.

- Monday Night War

- Breaking Ground

- Ruthless Aggression

Just to name a few. 

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To do that format on individual careers, as opposed to specific eras, would be great. They not only have the footage of entire careers, but by now have done tons of interviews with. All just a matter of doing some editing and maybe new interviews. Guys like Flair and Hogan are the obvious choices, but surely it could apply to a few others like Shawn or Bret as well.

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3 minutes ago, flyonthewall2983 said:

To do that format on individual careers, as opposed to specific eras, would be great. Some guy's careers certainly warrant it. They not only have the footage of people's careers, but by now have done tons of interviews with. All just a matter of doing some editing and maybe new interviews. Guys like Flair and Hogan are the obvious choices, but surely it could apply to a few others like Shawn or Bret as well.

Could honestly do a real interesting Hogan piece if you collected all of his media appearances.

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I'm really interested in just how much backstage stuff they have. Not just recently but going back to the 90's when they would film stuff at MSG, or the behind the scenes stuff at WrestleMania 9. It's so funny I remember someone on reddit just randomly asking for the Network to put up the Yokozuna slam challenge on that aircraft carrier and maybe even the same day the Network announced they were putting up a three hour doc on the Lex Express. 

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I had not seen the three hour documentary about the Lex Express and all I can say is...Holy shit.

This is less of a "doc" than just a bunch of mostly raw, unedited footage. I'm only 30 minutes in and I can't imagine what the rest of this is going to be like. It starts with a lengthy, lengthy music video that was definitely made back in 93' and I'm guessing played on Superstars and stuff? Think "Tell Me A Lie" but more patriotic. We then cut (kinda) to the USS Intrepid, but its being captured by a single camera so it is dizzying, sea-sickness-inducing "fan cam" style. At points, the cameraman zooms in on random fans and it just crazy raw, uncut. I'm guessing they were going to edit this all down.

So far, no "talking heads," no post-production at all, just random and rather minor (to my knowledge) sports celebrities* attempting to slam Yoko mixed with some random WWE stars like Bob Backlund (still sporting long hair) and Scott Steiner. 

Also, for those that still have The Last Dance on my mind, at one point Scotty fucking Burrell shows up to try to slam Yoko! 

 

 

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The ESPN doc on Flair is pretty much the definitive word, anything WWE did would pretty much just be a retread of the same stuff for the most part. A Hogan one actually covering his entire career would be interesting, but it would fly in the face of WWE Canon that Vince created Hulkamania by himself, so I don't know if t would be worth the effort. 

The Undertaker doc is them catching lightning in a bottle, the one guy who never opened up and publicly breaking character doing so for a full length doc is not something easily reproduced. 

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