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How is the new Austin Taker interview? Are there any new stories/tidbits/discussion worth checking out? The first one was great but that was also because Taker had not done a proper out-of-kayfabe interview for the longest time. Now he is everywhere, doing more interviews than the fucking Rock. I dunno if this new interview will tread any new ground.

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3 hours ago, MoS said:

How is the new Austin Taker interview? Are there any new stories/tidbits/discussion worth checking out? The first one was great but that was also because Taker had not done a proper out-of-kayfabe interview for the longest time. Now he is everywhere, doing more interviews than the fucking Rock. I dunno if this new interview will tread any new ground.

Wouldn't say there is much new ground, maybe a few new details, but it was enjoyable. It's 2 hours long so by far the longest Broken Skull Session so far. They talk about HIAC vs Shawn and vs Foley, the WM 14 "taping up the fists for Shawn" story, WM 18 vs Flair, details his face off with Brock in the crowd at UFC, details the time he got set on fire at Elimination Chamber 2010, the Boneyard match, etc.

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1 hour ago, flyonthewall2983 said:

After Survivor Series went off the air, they ran a promo for a new documentary series to air next year called Icons, with episodes on Lex Luger, Davey Boy Smith, Yokozuna and someone else.

RVD and Beth Phoenix were the others included. I'm most interested in any documentary type thing on Luger, one of my favorites that never got brought back for appearances or anything.

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20 hours ago, MoS said:

How is the new Austin Taker interview? Are there any new stories/tidbits/discussion worth checking out? The first one was great but that was also because Taker had not done a proper out-of-kayfabe interview for the longest time. Now he is everywhere, doing more interviews than the fucking Rock. I dunno if this new interview will tread any new ground.

16 hours ago, Alucard said:

Wouldn't say there is much new ground, maybe a few new details, but it was enjoyable. It's 2 hours long so by far the longest Broken Skull Session so far. They talk about HIAC vs Shawn and vs Foley, the WM 14 "taping up the fists for Shawn" story, WM 18 vs Flair, details his face off with Brock in the crowd at UFC, details the time he got set on fire at Elimination Chamber 2010, the Boneyard match, etc.

It's definitely cool getting some of those blanks filled in on stories we've heard but may not necessarily know everything about.

I think it's worth a watch.

 

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I checked it out and I liked it a lot. Although - and I know this is tangential, but still - the Teddy Long story and Taker's reaction to him "making a profit" made me laugh at how all these conservative GOP wrestlers are against the evils of communism and socialism and all for freedom of enterprise, except when someone not as powerful as they engages in it, at which point they are all about redistribution of resources haha

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17 hours ago, flyonthewall2983 said:

After Survivor Series went off the air, they ran a promo for a new documentary series to air next year called Icons, with episodes on Lex Luger, Davey Boy Smith, Yokozuna and someone else.

Seemed to be the Light Side Of The Ring.

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  • 1 month later...

Watched the Broken Skull Sessions with Drew McIntyre last night...

Pretty interesting interview, especially about his life between WWE stints, his early push, de-push with 3MB, wrestling during the pandemic, gauging fan reactions, his promos against Orton, etc.

But I was pretty sleepy, and his voice honestly didn't help. Still, it was a good listen.

You could play a drinking game for every time he said "thank you" after Stone Cold complimented him.

Austin seems to be a pretty big fan of Drew's, which is cool. 

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8 minutes ago, flyonthewall2983 said:

I watched the episode of Untold about Goldberg's undefeated streak. Very good perspectives on that time in WCW. Kevin Nash does not look well. 

Did Untold ditch the voice-only approach, or am I thinking of a different Network show?

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On 1/1/2021 at 10:10 PM, flyonthewall2983 said:

Kevin Nash does not look well

Came here to post the same thing. He both looked and sounded like shit. Hope he’s okay.

That aside, he came across as arrogant and clueless, and didn’t really add much of anything to the episode.

 

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He sent out a pretty cryptic tweet around New Years, and it sounded like he had a really rough year. 

Just to be a fan for a minute, the person I feel bad for in this story is Diamond Dallas Page, because he should have been the one to end the streak. Considering the fact that Bill suffered for some of the bumps he took in that Halloween Havoc match, it feels like they could have called an audible and given DDP the win to end it early. 

I personally feel that winning streaks can be as detrimental to someone as it can to get them over. It was so WCW that they didn't figure out the endgame for that aspect of his character until Nash did. It's even killed people for Vince. Tatanka was fairly popular, but he went down and down the card once they ended his undefeated streak, not really rationalizing as to why to give it to him. 

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I get that, but with Goldberg, given he was still really over, some live-crowd boos notwithstanding - by far their biggest TV ratings and merchandise draw - they should have just continued the streak and should have booked everyone to job to him. Don't fix what's broken, don't kill the golden goose, etc etc

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I think ending the streak would have done DDP more harm than good. It would have severely damaged a hot babyface act who got over organically (don't @ me with the "Bischoff's neighbor" crap, lol) because the fans would have resented him for it.

Nash ending the streak was ludicrous, especially in light of what came before (Goldberg beating Hogan) and what happened after (the "fingerpoke of Doom"). Nash had been Hogan's underling at one point and therefore always the lesser of the two, so it wasn't believable at all. He had also cooled down considerably, so he wasn't nearly over enough at that point in time to 1. main event Starrcade 2. end the streak. It never, ever felt warranted or earned. Yes, it was a dirty finish with multiple people interfering and Scott Hall doing his best goofy midcarder Mountie cosplay with that atrocious shock stick finish, but still. If they were attempting to "protect" Goldberg, it didn't work. No one came out looking better after all that nonsense. And then the "fingerpoke" was the final fuck you from WCW to the audience, while Schiavone buried Mick Foley on commentary (per Bischoff's orders) and sent their dwindling fanbase switching over to USA Network in record numbers. 

So, who should have ended the streak? Hell if I know... WCW was pretty fucking lousy about making new stars, and I'm still shocked they somehow managed not to monumentally screw-up Goldberg despite all of the political pressure there must have been along the way to do so.

If I'm forced to give an answer, I'd say Scott Steiner (but not cleanly). He was the closest thing they had to resembling a credible main event heel. If they hadn't completely screwed the pooch on Bret Hart, he might've been a viable choice. But with WCW being WCW, that ship had long sailed by the time Goldberg was ready to end the streak.

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I'm of the firm belief that whenever the Streak would end, that it should happen clean as a sheet. You could make a new star if they beat Goldberg clean and you play your cards right. Kevin Sullivan agreed with me, and pitched an alternate finish where Goldberg would try to spear Nash and knock himself out against the turnbuckle or post. That would give Nash a monumental win, but at least protect Goldberg inasmuch as the only guy who could "beat" Goldberg would be himself.

I'm also of the belief that you don't really worry about ending the Streak until it's clearly time to do it. After all, did Vince, Sr. and other promoters fret about Andre the Giant "going stale" in the '70s and early '80s? Of course not. When he was finally decisively beaten on a major stage that everyone saw and knew about, it was when the time was right and not before. And while there was that little out in the opening part of the match with Marella to protect Andre and give cause for an eventual rematch, in the end he put Hogan over without any gaga or interference or cattle prods.

That said, viable Streakbuster options as I see it:

- DDP. I agree with C.S., he wouldn't be my choice either. But he's listed because he had the one move that could believably put Goldberg down, which no one else can say.

- Scott Steiner. Probably my #1 pick. You'd have a new monster heel and he was believable enough as being big and crazy enough to beat the unbeatable.

- Chris Benoit. Okay, maybe my early-2000s smarkdom is showing. Forget about what happened afterward for a minute--Benoit was believable enough as a Giant Killer and a win would have erased the best-wrestler-not-to-hold-a-title choker label that he had, and would get him into main events where a lot of fans clearly wanted him. Obviously politically it was never going to happen, but in a perfect world he'd be an intriguing option.

- Bret Hart. Not really making a "new" star, but in a perfect world where Goldberg keeps the belt, it's hard not to envision a Starrcade where Bret makes the ultimate Memorial Parade of Champions moment and triumphs over him. A properly built match for Starrcade '99 could have sold out SkyDome or Stade Olympique in Montreal, and the story just seems too good to pass up.

- Sting. Again, maybe a waste, but like DDP he's another guy that I think WCW fans would have bought as being able to believably do it so I'm obliged to at least acknowledge him.

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I think the correct answer is that they should not have ended the streak, and not even thought of ending the streak, unless Goldberg completely stopped working, and/or they had an extremely hot new heel who could be slotted into that situation. Andre was brought up and is a good point, yes, but, for instance, did Vince Sr worry about whom Bruno would put over clean in the 60s? Did Vince Jr worry about Hogan losing to someone in the 80s? Yeah, Warrior did not pan out, but that reinforces my point. Just don't worry about ending the streak until you have an objectively bad situation to manage, or when you have a really hot new young heel prospect.

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IMO the best way to do it would be to have Goldberg turn heel and have a babyface chasing it like a title. Having him stay babyface made it weird since you're making it so a heel gets the "rub" unless you do some kind of wacky bullshit finish that helps no one (aka what ended up happening).  

Then you can do something like having DDP win on a Diamond Cutter Outta Nowhere and it works for his scrappy babyface character. 

The moment WCW started inflating the streak past the point of believability (they've have him getting something like 20 wins between Nitros)  should have been the start of the heel turn, have someone casually mention "hey Bill, that win total seems kinda suspect", he takes offense in that "heel obviously trying to get away with something" way, and off you go.

Instead you had a situation where heels in both kayfabe and IRL were racing to be the first one to beat him and the psychology was just all wrong no matter what they would have ended up doing.

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From the sound of it, Goldberg never would have worked as a heel. Both in theory and very likely if you asked him, too. I mean they tried, but I don't think he ever fully bought into doing it.

As far as Andre goes, I get the sense that him being undefeated was basically a secondary issue to the attraction. I'm sure it was almost an unspoken thing among promoters to make sure he didn't lay down for a three count, but it wasn't something they belabored in promoting him. 

5 hours ago, MoS said:

I get that, but with Goldberg, given he was still really over, some live-crowd boos notwithstanding - by far their biggest TV ratings and merchandise draw - they should have just continued the streak and should have booked everyone to job to him. Don't fix what's broken, don't kill the golden goose, etc etc

Easier said than done with a company that was already red hot, with guys (some rightfully, some not) thinking they were responsible for things being where they are. They could only know what they lost once they did.

Jobbing everyone out to him could have been more feasible if they found Goldberg before they had Hogan, and right when Bischoff just came into power. In that anemic situation the company was in in the early 90's, would he have been as huge? Probably not, but the company could have had a fighting chance to rise above with a roster of talent that they didn't need to steal from the WWF.

Getting into daydream booking here but imagine in that scenario if they put Goldberg in Flair's place at the end of 93, or maybe extend Vader's title run into the next year. A younger Goldberg with Vader in perhaps his very physical prime, would have been a hell of a match.

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I'd just like to point out that the role of the Fingerpoke in WCW's demise has been greatly exaggerated by revisionist history. If anything, it popped business in the short term as Superbrawl did either the third or fourth biggest buyrate in company history. It was the Hogan/Flair double turn at Uncensored that did the real damage.

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The Fingerpoke of Doom did not pop the business. Flair as a babyface against Hogan did. The Fingerpoke can't be underestimated as a symbolic moment of the company signing its own death warrant (the killing of Goldy, who had been their only hope in 98 while the creative was already going awry, basically for nothing, with the belt going straight back on Hogan like the last two years had not happened), especially since it was the same show when Schiavone uttered the infamous words about Mick Foley.

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7 hours ago, flyonthewall2983 said:

From the sound of it, Goldberg never would have worked as a heel. Both in theory and very likely if you asked him, too. I mean they tried, but I don't think he ever fully bought into doing it.

Easier said than done with a company that was already red hot, with guys (some rightfully, some not) thinking they were responsible for things being where they are. They could only know what they lost once they did.

I get what you are saying, but with Goldberg, it was pretty well-known that he was by far the biggest TV ratings and merchandise draw that WCW had. The Observers from that time period keep mentioning it

 

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