Rey Mysterio Jr.

[ohtani's jacket]

If you were into Rey's WWE stuff more perhaps you'd feel the same way about the 619 that you do the People's Elbow.

 

I actually think there are other things Rey does that are less plausible like when he head scissors a guy into the steel corner post, but that would probably work a treat if it were Psicosis in AAA where the conventions are different.

[El-P]

If you were into Rey's WWE stuff more perhaps you'd feel the same way about the 619 that you do the People's Elbow.

 

I'm not into Rey's WWE work because of crap like this. So no, I wouldn't feel the same way I don't think, because Rey just doesn't need any cutesy trademark spot. He's a great worker. He's spent years being a great worker without doing stuff like this. The Rock on the other hand got over because of his catchphrases and cutesy spots like the People's Elbow. That's part of his character. The 619 is just another WWE corporate/trademarked stamp on a worker who doesn't need it to either work or get over. That's why it annoys me so much.

[Grimmas]

Funny because I think Rey is clearly better in the WWE than before it.

[elliott]

I hated the 619 for all of the reasons ELP is talking about. In like 2002. Now when I watch Rey matches it doesn't bother me at all. It is a signature spot that has always been put over huge by commentators, treated seriously, and was over with the live crowds for a decade. One 5 second spot doesn't take away from the hundreds of good-great Rey WWE matches for me in the slightest.

 

Wrestling is so full of cutsey and illogical spots that it seems like a really ridiculous criticism. If "logic" is so important, every time an Irish Whip happens people must be really pissed off. Within the crazy internal logic of wrestling Irish whips are totally logical. So is the 619.

 

In a sense, the 619 isn't totally illogical as a major kill shot for Rey. He's a tiny underdog that can't lift most guys in the company. Rana's and roll ups aren't going to work against someone like Big Show or Mark Henry or whatever big guy you want to pick. So Rey figured out a way to get these guys down to his level and then blast them in the face with his knees while building momentum running the ropes and then spinning. Seems pretty logical instead of trying to hit hurricanrana's on everybody or winning every match by his opponent slipping on a banana peel. Could they have come up with a better spot or use a better set up? Probably. But it worked. Year after year after year.

 

I'm also not understanding why the Bronco Buster is ok and the 619 isn't. The bronco buster is literally sprinting and jumping balls first and landing on your opponents face. And X-Pac was a great worker for years who got over without using that stupid spot. Cutsey, illogical, and a corporate spot.

[Loss]

The 619 itself isn't the issue as much as wrestlers having to sell by dropping into position and hang on the ropes when that never happens in a match that doesn't involve Rey. It's the setup for the move more than the move itself.

[Loss]

The difference between the 619 setup and some of the other setups described is there's no piece of offense Rey is specifically executing to put people in that position. The wrestler sells and happens to fall exactly where he needs to and because Rey has to run first, there is a delay to the point it doesn't seem plausible for any wrestler to just be sitting there for so long. It's the telegraphed feeding. The big difference between that and something like the People's Elbow is that a wrestler lying on his back isn't an uncommon position for a wrestler to sell in a wrestling match. Just happening to stumble and land on the middle rope is too convenient.

[elliott]

The 619 itself isn't the issue as much as wrestlers having to sell by dropping into position and hang on the ropes when that never happens in a match that doesn't involve Rey. It's the setup for the move more than the move itself.

 

Right on. I would say that the setup doesn't really bother me but I can see why others might not like it.

 

I would point out that Stone Cold had a signature spot where he would have a guy draped over the middle ropes, run off the opposite ropes, bounce off and then jump on his opponents back. It wasn't the result of a head scissors or rana like with Rey, but it happened. Austin is a brawling ass kicker so he would drag guys there and choke them for a minute before bouncing off the ropes and hitting his spot. Rey would use his superior technique to get guys into that position.

[Matt D]

The difference between the 619 setup and some of the other setups described is there's no piece of offense Rey is specifically executing to put people in that position.

 

I think this is blatantly wrong about 70% of the time. Rey goes to great lengths to position them there.

 

 

I completely and utterly buy this.

 

This too:

 

 

I'd buy it symbolically in the first place, but there's a way that Rey arches his body that makes it LOOK like he's sending the guy into the ropes EXACTLY how he wants to. There's an execution element to it that makes it look feasible.

[Loss]

If that's the type of setup we get most of the time, it's a step up from where it was at one point. The manager bump in that case also helps because it creates an alternative audience focus during some of the time it takes Rey to run.

 

I think the reason people harp so much on the 619 compared to other moves is that it was a key part of how Rey was marketed. It wasn't a finisher, but it was part of his entrance music.

[Matt D]

If that's the type of setup we get most of the time, it's a step up from where it was at one point. The manager bump in that case also helps because it creates an alternative audience focus during some of the time it takes Rey to run.

 

I think the reason people harp so much on the 619 compared to other moves is that it was a key part of how Rey was marketed. It wasn't a finisher, but it was part of his entrance music.

 

Like I said, when I started watching again in 08-09 I was amazed by how well he was working both it and the failed attempts of it, into his matches. I have a feeling it wasn't nearly as good in 03 or whenever he started using it. I didn't remember it being on the level as above.

[Jimmy Redman]

If you want to enjoy a different and kind of brilliantly funny 619 setup, watch his match with Eddie Guerrero on Smackdown January 2005.

[Eduardo]

The difference between the 619 setup and some of the other setups described is there's no piece of offense Rey is specifically executing to put people in that position

 

 

Disagree about this. Most of the time I've seen Rey hit the 619, he sets guys up by putting them in that position with hurricaranas hit from different positions, various versions of the head-scissors, drop toe holds, monkey flips, low dropkicks, arm drag variations (pro wrestling-style, and I've probably even seen a variation on the BJJ version) and a few other moves I'm forgetting.

 

 

 

The wrestler sells and happens to fall exactly where he needs to and because Rey has to run first, there is a delay to the point it doesn't seem plausible for any wrestler to just be sitting there for so long.

 

A good amount of the times when I've seen guys fall in that position, it's usually just a tease for the 619.

 

Do people that have an issue with Mysterio's 619, have the same issue with Santo's "Tope de Cristo" (one rudo lying in the middle of the ring, waiting to be somersault tope'd and another one outside the ring, waiting to get tope'd)? It's one of my favorite spots in pro wrestling, but I figure if people have a problem with the 619, they'd probably hate that spot.

[Exposer]

It should be pointed out that oftentimes heels will play possum on the ropes waiting to duck or catch Rey on the 619. That changes things I think. At least sometimes.

[Eduardo]

Yep, true, we've seen that lead to ankle locks, power slams, boston crabs, backbreakers, and other trademark moves.

[Matt D]

The fact that he can turn something that should so blatantly be a negative on paper into a real positive when you actually watch a lot of the matches is hugely impressive.

[BillThompson]

I'll be simple and say I don't have a problem with the move or the set-up of the move.

[cowboy hats]

Someone recommended Rey's performance in the 2009 elimination chamber (No Way Out). Watched it for the first time and he is...really good in it. Watching it also let me know that someone named Mike Knox fought in a world title match on ppv.

[ohtani's jacket]

 

If you were into Rey's WWE stuff more perhaps you'd feel the same way about the 619 that you do the People's Elbow.

 

I'm not into Rey's WWE work because of crap like this. So no, I wouldn't feel the same way I don't think, because Rey just doesn't need any cutesy trademark spot. He's a great worker. He's spent years being a great worker without doing stuff like this. The Rock on the other hand got over because of his catchphrases and cutesy spots like the People's Elbow. That's part of his character. The 619 is just another WWE corporate/trademarked stamp on a worker who doesn't need it to either work or get over. That's why it annoys me so much.

 

 

So it's not the spot but WWE's repackaging of workers that bothers you? Because I was going to ask how you would feel if someone didn't want to watch Flair's output because of his turnbuckle spot or Andre because of the spot where he gets caught in the ropes.

[ohtani's jacket]

Rey vs Tajiri, Smackdown 1st Jan 2004

Rey vs Eddie Guerrero, Smackdown 18th March 2004

Rey vs Jamie Noble, Velocity 1st May 2004

Rey vs Chavo Guerrero, Great American Bash 2004

Rey vs Kurt Angle, Smackdown 26th August 2004

Rey vs Kurt Angle, Smackdown 28th Oct 2004

Rey's 2004 bouts were considerably better than his 2003 work. The Eddie Guerrero bout was the best match he'd had since the end of the Smackdown Six era and his best singles showing in the WWE to date. That was partially because Eddie did such a great job working over his shoulder injury, but Mysterio's selling was also brilliant. To me that was a legit four star match. The Chavo bout was good, but I got a bit tired of Mysterio hitting a move and selling the knee. I know people applaud that type of sustained selling, but the repetition and the fact that he kept hitting the same leg based offence bugged me and wasn't as clever as it seemed. I also hated the finish, which should have at least tied into the narrative. The Jamie Noble bout was really good. I thought it was Rey's second best match of the year and definitely a feather in the cap of those who think Rey's the best television worker ever given he had a stellar match tucked away on Velocity. The Angle matches weren't as good as the original ones, though the more stripped back style of the first one was interesting. And while he seemed to have ironed out some of the kinks with Tajiri, they still failed to knock one out of the park. Nevertheless, if those are your weaker matches of the yesr, you had a good year.

[El-P]

 

So it's not the spot but WWE's repackaging of workers that bothers you?

 

Both. Because Rey worked like ten years without having to do that stupid spot in *every* match. Yeah, it's a way to brand Rey Mysterio (Jr. be damned) with a stupid spot that he doesn't need to get over anyway. Really, if he did that spot once in a while it wouldn't bother me. But like Loss said, it's even part of his freakin' theme song. The WWE branded him with this stupid spot, and yes, it damages the enjoyment I have for this amazing worker.

[Shining Wiz]

Generally, the ropes are really springy.

Unless Rey throws you onto them. But even then, only when he's setting up one move. Otherwise, still springy.

[El McKell]

I don't buy that as an argument, so do you think in the gifs Matt D posted those guys should like bounce off? and what take a back bump?

[pol]

Expecting consistency from wrestling physics seems like a dangerous road to go down.

[Shining Wiz]

It undoubtedly is, but the set ups to the 619 always stood out to me as forced since they required such an uncommon reaction to landing in the ropes.

[Tim Cooke]

 

Rey vs Tajiri, Smackdown 1st Jan 2004

Rey vs Eddie Guerrero, Smackdown 18th March 2004

Rey vs Jamie Noble, Velocity 1st May 2004

Rey vs Chavo Guerrero, Great American Bash 2004

Rey vs Kurt Angle, Smackdown 26th August 2004

Rey vs Kurt Angle, Smackdown 28th Oct 2004

Rey's 2004 bouts were considerably better than his 2003 work. The Eddie Guerrero bout was the best match he'd had since the end of the Smackdown Six era and his best singles showing in the WWE to date. That was partially because Eddie did such a great job working over his shoulder injury, but Mysterio's selling was also brilliant. To me that was a legit four star match. The Chavo bout was good, but I got a bit tired of Mysterio hitting a move and selling the knee. I know people applaud that type of sustained selling, but the repetition and the fact that he kept hitting the same leg based offence bugged me and wasn't as clever as it seemed. I also hated the finish, which should have at least tied into the narrative. The Jamie Noble bout was really good. I thought it was Rey's second best match of the year and definitely a feather in the cap of those who think Rey's the best television worker ever given he had a stellar match tucked away on Velocity. The Angle matches weren't as good as the original ones, though the more stripped back style of the first one was interesting. And while he seemed to have ironed out some of the kinks with Tajiri, they still failed to knock one out of the park. Nevertheless, if those are your weaker matches of the yesr, you had a good year.

 

 

Good thing to look forward to is in my opinion, the 6/23/05 Rey vs. Eddy Smackdown match is even better than the 3/28/04 match. The rest of the Eddy matches that summer are fun but they peak (and probably should have ended the feud) in June on SD.

 

Noble match from Velocity has always been a favorite. As close as WWE came to WCW in terms of telling two capable guys to go fill some time and they hit it out of the park.