Dylan Waco Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 I just don't get it beyond "well Flair's the boring choice and I want to be different", which is what it boils down to. I'm not getting into it again beyond this post, said it too many times in too many places, but stuff you're coming out is some Scott Keith level stuff. Fucking stupid nonsense, that invalidates everything you say on Flair in my view. At this point your continued harping on this line of defense makes me not want to rate Flair at all just to spite you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 We've had people on this forum say exactly that, so I don't know what you're talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 People = more than one poster There really have been multiple posters who have said both of these things in posts: 1. Flair's the boring choice 2. I want to be different I suspect a number of people have said the first. The majority of top contenders for any poll like this tend to be boring choices. I'm not so sure that people are then lining up with #2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 I'm rolling with idiot savant these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 I have no desire to continue this further. The people who won't have Flair in their top ten, won't have him. It's not worth arguing over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted June 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 I have no desire to continue this further. The people who won't have Flair in their top ten, won't have him. It's not worth arguing over. He'll be in my top ten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueGuy Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 The more Flair I watch, the more I appreciate him. And, that includes seeing some of his later stuff that many automatically knock because he was past his prime and generally poorly used in a rapidly changing landscape. He's my top choice and I can't honestly see anyone challenging him for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 I have no desire to continue this further. The people who won't have Flair in their top ten, won't have him. It's not worth arguing over. He'll be in my top ten. Your clearly just going to have him there because he's canon. That must be it right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 I'll take back the bit about wanting to be different. It is a bad habit of mine that I tend to accuse people for hipsterdom for its own sake. I should stop doing that. Yesterday, I'd slept 3 hours in 48 and was in an unbelievable bad mood, so apologies. I stand by everything else I said about Flair, but the bit accusing people of bad faith is not necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 I wouldn't say its bad faith but won't challenge you if you believe it to be the case. I wouldn't be at all surprised - or blame anyone - if people in these circles have some Flair fatigue. They may have been watching his greatest hits and b-sides for years, some many times over, which may make it harder to appreciate him in the context of fresher work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 Ric Flair vs. Lex Luger (2/25/90) One of the first things I stumbled upon while searching for this match was a video of Luger talking about how Flair carried him. This looks to be a 40 minute match that didn't happen in All Japan in 1995 which doesn't look very appealing to me. Terry Funk is on commentary which should make it worthwhile even if the ring work isn't the greatest. This had a STRONG opening- Flair was amazing at projecting Luger as a strong character and prolonging the opening section of the match without making it seem like filler. I'll always get a kick out of the "judo chop" call. They did some nice brawling and a couple of big bumps before transitioning to the workover portion where they lost me. I didn't care for Flair's limbwork and the extended sleeper holds. Luger's no-selling was amusing and fitting for what they were going for. They had the ref catch Luger's arm when he was going for a punch which allowed Flair to kick him and transition back into offence in what was probably the stupidest professional wrestling spot ever. Stars deducted for that. Luger's Powerslams looked good.There was enough brawling and slams to keep me somewhat entertained but nothing especially noteworthy. The Sting-Luger interactions were laughably bad. Bad timing took away any potential drama from the nearfalls and made them look totally unconvincing. The finish with Luger's moral dilemma was interesting but poorly done-there was a shot of Ole observing Luger's Torture Rack when the ref was just getting up where it would've made infinitely more sense for him to just get in the ring and knock the ref down again. They didn't need two guys to threaten an immobile Sting anyway. Poor execution and storytelling on their part. Flair's performance in the match was very good though. *** I assume: Ron Garvin vs. Ric Flair (9/26/87) is the match in which Garvin won the title? I haven't found that one yet, but I did find the Starrcade cage match that took place on November 26th. I believe this was my first time seeing Garvin and man he looked great. Great brawl with lots of vicious striking and an incerdibly smart finishing stretch that suckered me right into the drama. Garvin looks like a major omission on my part and Flair looked much better in this environment than in drawn out epics. **** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo Slice Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 There's a lot of talk about Flair trimming the fat, so to speak, and it's why a lot of people like the WrestleWar match so much as opposed to the 60-minute Steamer matches he had, but Garvin always matched up well with Flair, too, and I think it was just one of those things where two guys clicked right away. Just that the booking screwed them from having a longer series that could have been worthwhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 I honestly think Clash 6 has very little fat. It's a 45 minute match worked like a ten minute sprint that I believe is breathtaking and the benchmark ***** in American wrestling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 There's a lot of talk about Flair trimming the fat, so to speak, and it's why a lot of people like the WrestleWar match so much as opposed to the 60-minute Steamer matches he had, but Garvin always matched up well with Flair, too, and I think it was just one of those things where two guys clicked right away. Just that the booking screwed them from having a longer series that could have been worthwhile. The trimmed fat one is the first title change. Starcade is actually a well worked 50+ minute match. It's WrestleWar that's the boring one of the bunch. In hindsight, there's a big bunch of "want to believe" in people praising it at the time and since through the roof. The Chicago and New Orleans matches are the better ones, and someone else can weigh in on the handheld ones from the same period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 Yeah, I've always felt Wrestle War was a distant third to Chi-Town and Clash and never understood why it's considered the best by some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRGoldman Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Aside from Lawler, how many American contemporaries does Flair have that have a shot at finishing higher than him on a ballot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Funk, Hansen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Does Hansen count? Him, King and possibly Terry Funk are the only ones I'd imagine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Bockwinkel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRGoldman Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 I didn't include Hansen on purpose. I think his contemporaries are Japanese, as his work there is the bulk of his argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Fucking stupid nonsense, that invalidates everything you say on Flair in my view. At this point your continued harping on this line of defense makes me not want to rate Flair at all just to spite you. I feel like his defense of Flair is having the opposite desired effect on me than what he's shooting for - It's making me like Flair less, which I'm sure is not the intention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Aside from Lawler, how many American contemporaries does Flair have that have a shot at finishing higher than him on a ballot? Lawler, Funk, Bockwinkel, Vader (depends on if you'd consider him a contemporary really, and I'm not sure he will place higher than Flair but I'm considering him), and I'd count Hansen myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo Slice Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 There's a lot of talk about Flair trimming the fat, so to speak, and it's why a lot of people like the WrestleWar match so much as opposed to the 60-minute Steamer matches he had, but Garvin always matched up well with Flair, too, and I think it was just one of those things where two guys clicked right away. Just that the booking screwed them from having a longer series that could have been worthwhile. The trimmed fat one is the first title change. Starcade is actually a well worked 50+ minute match. It's WrestleWar that's the boring one of the bunch. In hindsight, there's a big bunch of "want to believe" in people praising it at the time and since through the roof. The Chicago and New Orleans matches are the better ones, and someone else can weigh in on the handheld ones from the same period. There was a handheld from Landover (the Philadelphia match was great, too) floating around right after Steamboat won the title (March 18 or 19, I want to say) that when I first saw it, I thought it was right up there with the Chicago/New Orleans matches. For what its worth, I still think Chicago is the best of the trilogy, with New Orleans second and Nashville third, but that Landover match to me is better than the Nashville match and rivals the New Orleans match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted July 3, 2015 Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Offhand, Hansen and Bryan are the only Americans with a chance of eclipsing him. And frankly I don't see Hansen having a chance. But I'm open to it. Curious if anyone has Cena quite that high. Probably the only other domestic worker who may make it to the same ballpark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted July 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2015 Offhand, Hansen and Bryan are the only Americans with a chance of eclipsing him. And frankly I don't see Hansen having a chance. But I'm open to it. Curious if anyone has Cena quite that high. Probably the only other domestic worker who may make it to the same ballpark. Lawler and Funk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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