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Stan Hansen


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First off, you're overstating the degree to which Hansen's style was shaped by the role Baba wanted him to play. Hansen was already Hansen before he jumped to All Japan. And no, his case doesn't much relate to early Undertaker's. Hansen wasn't "protected" in the sense he didn't have to do much. He wrestled lengthy main events against the top guys in the company, as he had in New Japan. Taker, by comparison, wasn't asked to grow as a wrestler until what, 1997? I don't care how well he played his role. His role didn't call for him to be a great or even good in-ring performer. He existed largely because the WWF production studio created him. Hansen created himself.

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First off, you're overstating the degree to which Hansen's style was shaped by the role Baba wanted him to play. Hansen was already Hansen before he jumped to All Japan. And no, his case doesn't much relate to early Undertaker's. Hansen wasn't "protected" in the sense he didn't have to do much. He wrestled lengthy main events against the top guys in the company, as he had in New Japan. Taker, by comparison, wasn't asked to grow as a wrestler until what, 1997? I don't care how well he played his role. His role didn't call for him to be a great or even good in-ring performer. He existed largely because the WWF production studio created him. Hansen created himself.

 

I meant "protected" more from a booking standpoint than an in-ring performance standpoint. Specifically, I was alluding back to this section of Elliott's (great) post earlier:

 

Over the course of the 80s, Hansen was the biggest and hardest pushed gaijin in All Japan. Consider that Hansen:

 

Was in the main event or semi-main event of every Sumo Hall or Budokan Hall show in the 80s.

Won 4 Tag Leagues from 82-89 and tied for first in another. Finished 2nd or tied for 2nd every other year in the 80s.

 

Going into the 90s:

 

Hansen was in the main event or semi main event of EVERY Budokan card he appeared on from 1985 until July 1994. Seriously. Every one.

He finished 2nd or tied for 2nd in every Tag League from 90-94. He won one last tag league in 1998 and finished 2nd in 99.

He lost to Jumbo in the finals of the 91 Champions Carnival (AJ didn’t run the carnival from 1982 until 1991) and then beat Misawa to win the next two.

He had 4 runs as Triple Crown Champion. 2 more than any other gaijin. Hansen held the belt for a total of 505 days. The next closest gaijin was Vader’s 2 reigns for 177 days.

 

So the presentation of Hansen from the moment he started in All Japan until sometime around 1994ish was as a literal top of the card star. He’s a guy that beat Inoki, Baba, Jumbo, and Misawa. How many people in the history of Japan can say that? I’m genuinely curious about that because I suspect no one. Hansen wasn’t just a star, he was a star capable of beating the absolute top tier natives.

 

Whether the role came more from Hansen himself or Baba isn't really critical to what I'm driving at (though it can certainly enhance Hansen's case if you value intentionality). I'm just trying to get a sense for how much of the weight of his work, so to speak, is carried by the surrounding context of that role (and how it was booked) and how that same approach applies to other workers -- even lesser ones like the Undertaker -- who may not have a comparable resume to Hansen from a "great match" standpoint, but potentially have "effective" matches that lean heavily on their characterization.

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I just don't see any real relation between Hansen and young Taker. Hansen was never a super-limited worker who needed to be kept in a tightly managed role to be effective.

 

Taker certainly grew past that but is anyone really arguing that he was building his great wrestler case in 1992? I don't see the quality output, even when grading on a curve.

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Comparing them year by year: it's true Taker didn't really get good until 1996. That was the twelfth year of his career. In comparison, 1985 was the twelfth year in Hansen's career; that's when he stopped tagging with Brody and also won the AWA belt. I can totally see an argument that this period was when Hasen really grew into what we think of today when we hear his name.

 

Also, Hansen got to wrestle most of the best talent in the world and develop a very well-rounded education. Undertaker spent his formative years doing endless jobber squashes and gimmick-based feuds against cartoonish monsters who were even bigger than himself. Of course we expect more out of a guy who is wrestling Terry Funk or Jumbo Tsuruta every night, as opposed to someone who spends most of his time with the likes of El Gigante or Steve Lombardi.

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Yeah, to be clear, I'm not trying to draw a parallel between both of their careers as a whole; Undertaker is hovering near the bottom of my list, while Hansen is hovering around the Top 25 (and I still have a lot of homework ahead for him).

 

More than anything, I just want to make sure I'm not selling aspects of his early work short, contextually. From what I've seen so far, I can definitely sympathize with Matt D's earlier concerns in the thread.

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Comparing them year by year: it's true Taker didn't really get good until 1996. That was the twelfth year of his career. In comparison, 1985 was the twelfth year in Hansen's career; that's when he stopped tagging with Brody and also won the AWA belt. I can totally see an argument that this period was when Hasen really grew into what we think of today when we hear his name.

 

He seems to have tagged with Brody in three waves:

 

10/74 - 07/75 in Tri-State (future Mid-South)

07/76 - xx/76 in the WWWF

04/82 - 12/84 in All Japan

 

There were some other matches here and there in between, and perhaps some here and there after as well, especially ones that are never going to be known about.

 

The time with Brody really was a small amount of what Hansen was up to, even up through 1984.

 

There's this large chunk of his career from the beginning of 1977 through leaving New Japan at the end of 1981 where he was establishing himself on his own largely in Georgia and New Japan but also the swing back through the WWF. There are around 48 of his 73 tv matches in NJPW available from that period, possibly more if there's been someone uploading old original TV like we've seen for AJPW. Some of the WWF and GCW is available as well. There's a decent amount of this developmental stage out there, though admittedly it gets repetitive as there were something like 19 Inoki-Hansen singles matches that made TV, of which Dan has 17 of them. Amazingly on the first two don't look like they're out there, after that the run is complete. Yow.

 

Anyway...

 

Even the 04/82 - 12/84 period was all teaming together: 9 series. There were complete long series: the three RWTL. Those account for the majority of their tags in that period: 43 tags. Two series saw them drop in for just two week runs: the 1983 & 1984 Carny, accounting for 19 tags. The other four series were roughly one week spots where they were both in AJPW and worked 13 matches together.

 

1982 Grand Champion Series (04/16 - 04/22 - teamed 3 times)

1982 Real World Tag League (11/26 - 12/13 - teamed 12 times)

1983 Champion Carnival (04/15 - 04/28 - teamed 8 times)

1983 Super Power Series (08/25 - 08/31 - teamed 1 time)

1983 Giant Series (10/14 - 10/20 - teamed 3 times)

1983 Real World Tag League (11/25 - 12/12 - teamed 12 times)

1984 Champion Carnival (04/13 - 04/26 - teamed 11 times)

1984 Super Power Series (08/23 - 08/28 - teamed 6 times)

1984 Real World Tag League (11/22 - 12/22 - teamed 19 times)

 

It probably would surprise most people that after the big angle of Hansen showing up on the final night of the 1981 Tag League that the two would tag only 3 times the entire next year in All Japan before getting together in the 1982 tag league. Certainly surprised me when I saw it the first time in the record books.

 

There's not as much Brody & Hansen as folks think given the iconic nature of the team. One would find Hansen as often coming in working a series without Brody as with him in the period, and Brody working his own tours such as his 1985 one. It's a bit more spotty on what's available, though it is the period of all those singles matches where he's not working with Brody in the ring.

 

Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if up through the end of 1984 that there are 4-5 times as many Hansen "without Brody" matches available as there are "teaming with Brody".

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I'm not as up to speed with early 90s Taker as I am on Hansen but....

 

The main problem with the early Undertaker comp is that early Undertaker wasn't having excellent matches working a more giving style in different promotions/countries while working the Undertaker gimmick. Stan was. Nor does Taker have anything like the Terry Funk or Baba rivalries from an artistic standpoint. Not to mention Hansen's pre All Japan work in New Japan and WWWF. etc etc.

 

Hansen was playing his role in All Japan but how he worked within that role changed depending on his opponent and setting (singles or tag match) AND he was working differently before after and during the time period in question.

 

We can't really say the same for early 90s Undertaker.

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The 1996 Hansen/Kobashi match was... not very good. I was surprised by how many people liked this on the '96 Yearbook. It seems obvious to me that they didn't know how to work a match where Kobashi was the champion and Hansen the challenger. The commentator wouldn't stop mentioning how young Kobashi was, how he was the new champion and the fact Hansen was 47 and yet Kobashi looked worse here than he did in 1991-93 and the match was devoid of any new ideas.

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In the context of the 1996 yearbook, I thought the match was a little above average. But in the context of watching all of their other matches, it is below average. Does that make sense? Especially true when you watch Yearbook in order. The 1998 Kawada vs. Kobashi June match was phenomenal when viewing it in order and comparing to everything else going on in 1998. But stand alone, you can see it good, but not great as it appeared on the yearbook.

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I rewatched the '96 Hansen-Kobashi, expecting that I'd want to make a full-throated defense. But I have to confess I didn't enjoy it as much this time around. Hansen's performance was excellent. I liked the way he relied on a lot of cheap little counter shots early in the match, because he could no longer bull his way through Kobashi. And he made the second half of the match with his selling of the posted lariat arm. He really captured the wounded old bear vibe. But there was something off in Kobashi's performance. He sold being knocked silly by some of Hansen's early shots, which left him nowhere to go when Stan hit his real bombs down the stretch. And he was all over the place with his attack. I thought the basic premise of the match--that Hansen no longer had Kobashi outgunned--worked. So I don't agree they had no idea what they were doing. But the match needed a more commanding performance from Kobashi to go from good to great.

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I've been rewatching the WWC feud with Carlos Colon and I think it adds a lot to Hansen's case. Hansen works a bunch of completely different matches with Colon over the course of the feud. He gives Colon a real nice shine involving the bullrope after beating Colon with it in the previous match. Then after the incident on Chicky's Sports Shop Hansen gives Colon a MASSIVE shine where Colon looks like an unstoppable force of nature. That same match has the incredible legwork by Colon and equally great selling by Hansen. If you haven't seen it this feud is well worth your time.

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i watched that MVC vs. Hansen/Deaton match from '93 where the MVC jump Hansen and beat the shit out of him all match long. Great selling from Stan and everything, but I don't see how we're supposed to feel sorry for him. The guy had been doing the same shit to people his entire career. What goes around, comes around, Stan.

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In the early 90s, Hansen had the most destructive and overwhelming offense in the company. Kobashi was the biggest overseller in the company, trying to make everything look like it's almost murdering him. Pair him with Hansen, and his overselling doesn't look uncalled-for; it looks absolutely appropriate. While guys like Misawa and Kawada try to be all stoic and shit, Kobashi is doing everything but screaming out a Ric Flair "OH GAWD!" and I think that style works better with Stan than trying to do a relatively dry "serious sports" kind of match. Plus, Kobashi is the AJPW master of the Ridiculously-Fiery Super-Saiyan Comeback, and once again that's something which looks perfectly appropriate when dealing with Hansen. If you're gonna try to actually beat that guy, you SHOULD be shrieking at the top of your voice with your eyes bugging out and every cord in your neck sticking out like steel cables.

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I had Hansen top 5 for sure. I recently got the 80s AWA set and I think he might have solidified himself as the man to beat on my list. It isn't so much that the work there was unbeatable as much as I just threw up my hands and said "fuck it, he is just the best everywhere".

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The WWC feud with Colon is what really put him there for me. I had seen a lot of his work in Japan before that when I was watching a little more casually. The stuff with Colon blew me away though. That is where his versatility really stood out. I actually remember very distinctly the moment he became probably a clear cut top 5 for me. It was during the bullrop match (one of my favorite matches ever) about 3/4th the way through the match where he is reaching for the last corner and he gets pulled back on his butt by Colon. Hansen sits and almost openly weeps. It was this brilliant little turning point in the whole feud to me. It felt like the moment that inside, Hansen new Colon was ultimately going to beat him. This big monster couldn't hold that in and he just whaled. Since then I have noticed a lot of those little things he does that put emotion into his matches, even in his sort of chaotic brawls. Hansen sells emotion really well. It is usually anger and rage, but that makes the frustration and hearbreak that much better.

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