Riki Choshu

[Grimmas]

Discuss here.

[Graham Crackers]

I feel pretty comfortable calling him the second best Japanese wrestler of the 1980s behind Fujiwara. He was the catalyst for major stylistic shifts in both All Japan and New Japan. He's more of a pro-style brawler but I think you could even credit him as an influence on shoot style (the Choshu vs Fujinami matches from 1983 have the earliest realistically sold/blocked cross armbreakers in wrestling).

 

His biggest flaw seems to be that he wasn't as good when called upon to wrestle longer matches. That's only really problem for his All Japan period where he was booked into those longer matches (against Jumbo and Flair). In New Japan he always wrestled his kind of match which is the kind of straight forward and intense wrestling I love to watch.

 

I'd like to check out some more of what he was doing in the 1990s. I thought he was great in 1990, during the WAR feud in 1993, and during the 1996 G1. It looks like it was a good decade for him although obviously not at the level of what he was doing in the 1980s.

[Childs]

For me, Choshu vs. Fujinami is a great debate.

 

Choshu brought that almost unparalleled ability to make everything feel important. Wherever he was seemed to be the eye of the storm in Japanese wrestling. Great tag wrestler, worked with an intensity that made his limited move set irrelevant. As I worked through every last bit of footage from '80s NJ and AJ, I was always excited when I saw his name in a match listing.

 

Fujinami, on the other hand, brought brilliant skill. He was quick, strong, balanced, could go hard on the mat or fly, looked credible against anyone from an American territory guy to a luchadore to a heavyweight monster. He was arguably the best wrestler in the world as a junior heavy in 1980 and a contender again as a heavyweight ace in 1988. Also a great tag wrestler.

 

Fujinami was great earlier. Choshu lasted longer in top form. And the bitch of it is the best series for both guys came against the other. I'll be changing my mind on that comparison until the day I have to vote.

[Ditch]

I hated Choshu. Hated hated hated. Probably the biggest flaw is his limited moveset, which included stuff like "backdrop to counter a headlock" that forced his opponents to feed him in ways that weren't always fitting. Or, the deathlock being his go-to submission, but he didn't have much else and was prone to using it too much, and without setting it up well.

 

But oh man, he sure was in enough great matches to make up for it. The Inoki feud, the All Japan invasion, the late '80s wars with various factions, the WAR feud, the Hashimoto rivalry... there's a lot to love when you can accept his flaws. Hard to know where to place him, which is different from 8 years ago when I didn't even consider him.

[DR Ackermann]

One thing Choshu has in his favor is that he always made big matches feel BIG. He brought the intensity and charisma needed to make things feel important.

[soup23]

Choshu is definitely someone that has skyrocketd up in my rankings the past few years.

I always saw him as generic guy that relied too heavily on his charisma and repeated moves way too often. Now, I am able to see how versatile he could be and was a master of putting together matches.

[Loss]

Top 20 pick for me. Something I really appreciate about him is his credibility. In the 90s, there were many times that he would be working a multi-man match where no one else approached his stardom, but because he cared and didn't act above what he was doing, the fans ended up getting hot for the match. Choshu has a definite ability to make everyone around him seem better. I don't even fault him for having limited offense because he was able to take what he could do and get so many great matches out of it - not just great matches, but matches that had a big impact on the wrestling style. You could make an argument that in the 1980s where Riki Choshu goes, so goes the best wrestling in the world. That's not entirely down to him, but his infectious energy and charisma turned everything to gold for a while.

[Timbo Slice]

One of the great catalysts in wrestling history. He always adds something to a match. Loved his AJPW run. Easy Top 50 candidate, but not sure I can put him Top 25.

[Loss]

Choshu is a top 20 contender for me. He was more of an elder statesman in the 90s, which is interesting considering his role as destroyer of status quo in the 1980s. Here's some stuff I'd recommend from his older career. Choshu is a guy who adds so much to multi-mans beyond even the sequences or spots. He often works with far lower ranked guys but gives the entire presentation credibility because he cares so much what he's doing. I've seen good multi-mans where he's the only true major superstar involved that have been quite heated.

 

SINGLES

Keiji Muto

Riki Choshu vs Keiji Muto (05/24/90)

Riki Choshu vs Keiji Muto (05/17/92)

Shinya Hashimoto

Riki Choshu vs Shinya Hashimoto (05/28/90)

Riki Choshu vs Shinya Hashimoto (11/01/90)

Riki Choshu vs Shinya Hashimoto (06/15/94)

Riki Choshu vs Shinya Hashimoto (08/02/96)

Riki Choshu vs Shinya Hashimoto (01/04/97)

 

Masa Chono

Riki Choshu vs Masa Chono (08/07/91)

 

80s Rivals

Riki Choshu vs Genichiro Tenryu (01/04/93)

Riki Choshu vs Genichiro Tenryu (04/06/93)

Riki Choshu vs Yoshiaki Fujiwara (08/06/94)

Other Guys

Riki Choshu vs Vader (08/19/90)

 

TAGS

Riki Choshu & George Takano vs Genichiro Tenryu & Tiger Mask (02/10/90)

Riki Choshu & Tatsumi Fujinami vs Hiroshi Hase & Kensuke Sasaki (04/30/91)

Riki Choshu & Shinya Hashimoto vs Hiroshi Hase & Kensuke Sasaki (10/21/92)

Riki Choshu & Osamu Kido vs Genichiro Tenryu & Takashi Ishikawa (03/03/93)

Riki Choshu & Tatsumi Fujinami vs Genichiro Tenryu & Takashi Ishikawa (03/23/93)

Riki Choshu & Shinya Hashimoto vs Genichiro Tenryu & Takashi Ishikawa (04/02/93)

 

MULTI-MANS

Riki Choshu, Kantaro Hoshino, Kuniaki Kobayashi, Kensuke Sasaki & Shiro Koshinaka vs Animal Hamaguchi, Super Strong Machine, Tarzan Goto, Hiro Saito & Masanobu Kurisu (06/26/90)

Riki Choshu, Shinya Hashimoto, Tatsumi Fujinami, Keiji Muto & Masa Chono vs Vader, Bam Bam Bigelow, Samu, Kokina & TNT (07/24/91)

Riki Choshu, Tatsumi Fujinami, Osamu Kido, Hiroshi Hase & Tayayuki Iizuka vs Genichiro Tenryu, Hiroshi Hase, Takashi Ishikawa, Ricky Fuyuki & Tatsumi Kitahara (02/16/93)

Riki Choshu, Shinya Hashimoto, Tatsumi Fujinami, Masa Chono & Hiroshi Hase vs Genichiro Tenryu, Ashura Hara, Takashi Ishikawa, Tatsutoshi Goto & Super Strong Machine (06/15/93, Elimination Match)

Riki Choshu, Tatsumi Fujinami & Yoshiaki Fujiwara vs Masa Chono, Shinya Hashimoto & Hiroshi Hase (06/08/94)

Riki Choshu, Tatsumi Fujinami & Yoshiaki Fujiwara vs Keiji Muto, Shinya Hashimoto & Hiroshi Hase (07/09/94)

[JerryvonKramer]

I feel pretty comfortable calling him the second best Japanese wrestler of the 1980s behind Fujiwara.

Just interested more than anything, but why do you put Choshu ahead of Jumbo or even Tenryu for the 80s?

 

I'm not sure where Choshu will finish for me, need to think about him more, but you can probably add about a +5 on his final placement just because he looked so cool.

[Graham Crackers]

 

I feel pretty comfortable calling him the second best Japanese wrestler of the 1980s behind Fujiwara.

Just interested more than anything, but why do you put Choshu ahead of Jumbo or even Tenryu for the 80s?

 

I'm not sure where Choshu will finish for me, need to think about him more, but you can probably add about a +5 on his final placement just because he looked so cool.

 

 

Choshu had a fuller decade than either of them. Jumbo and Tenryu didn't really find themselves as mature workers until the late 80s. Part of that is the All Japan style being better defined in 1988 than it was at any time before that and part of that is when both of them found their tools. Meanwhile Choshu was an impressive worker from 1983 all the way to the end of the decade.

[Childs]

I don't think it's right to say Jumbo didn't find himself as a mature worker until the end of the decade. He could be boring and/or inconsistent, but he also cranked out plenty of all-time great performances. This is where the semi-backlash against him has gone too far.

 

I wouldn't fault anyone who prefers Choshu for the decade. I'd say Riki was the most important Japanese performer of that era, the straw that stirred the drink. But I'm still not sure he was great as often as Jumbo or that he peaked as high. It's an interesting argument.

[fxnj]

Nobody's faulting him for his awful 2000's run? I prefer to focus on the high-end stuff but if it's such a big deal for people in the Flair thread that series of insanely disappointing Fujinami rematches for Legend Pro main events has to count against him.

[DR Ackermann]

Would anyone else agree that tag matches aren't Choshu's forte? Don't get me wrong, he was in some great tags, but going through 80s All Japan, so many of his tags with Yatsu were a fucking chore to get through. Same with 80s New Japan before he made the jump to AJ. All Japan always had to have super long tags so it's even more noticeable there. On the other hand I think he adds a lot to the multi-mans I've seen in 90s New Japan, especially in the NJPW vs WAR feud.

 

If you agree with me, do you think that hurts Choshu in relation to someone whose of similar quality but was great in singles and tags?

[Childs]

Would anyone else agree that tag matches aren't Choshu's forte? Don't get me wrong, he was in some great tags, but going through 80s All Japan, so many of his tags with Yatsu were a fucking chore to get through. Same with 80s New Japan before he made the jump to AJ. All Japan always had to have super long tags so it's even more noticeable there. On the other hand I think he adds a lot to the multi-mans I've seen in 90s New Japan, especially in the NJPW vs WAR feud.

 

If you agree with me, do you think that hurts Choshu in relation to someone whose of similar quality but was great in singles and tags?

 

No, I think that's dead wrong. He was a huge factor in some of the greatest tag team matches of the '80s, with multiple partners. The voting on the DVDVR '80s sets bears that out.

[WingedEagle]

I might enjoy Choshu more in tags than singles and play to his strengths of coming in and going hard and fast for spurts. The series with Jumbo/Tenryu were my favorites on the AJ 80s set. The WAR tags & multi-mans in the 90s are all spectacular.

[Graham Crackers]

I don't think it's right to say Jumbo didn't find himself as a mature worker until the end of the decade. He could be boring and/or inconsistent, but he also cranked out plenty of all-time great performances. This is where the semi-backlash against him has gone too far.

 

I wouldn't fault anyone who prefers Choshu for the decade. I'd say Riki was the most important Japanese performer of that era, the straw that stirred the drink. But I'm still not sure he was great as often as Jumbo or that he peaked as high. It's an interesting argument.

For me it has a lot to do with the fact that the All Japan style of 1988-89 is a style of wrestling I really like but before that it only shows hints of it's later greatness. The highs in the pre-1988 period are great (Terry Funk as top babyface, Choshu era, Baba vs Hansen, some other main events) but most of it is not a wrestling style I particularly like. There are a lot of NWA style main events that lack the heat of their American equivalents. Some just feature guys taking turns trading moves (this is my memory of every Race vs Jumbo match).

 

Bach to Choshu, I've liked a few of his 2000s matches. Specifically the Shibata match from Riki Pro and his Sasaki and Tenryu matches from World Japan.

 

 

Genichiro Tenryu vs Riki Choshu (WJ, 3/15/03)

Riki Choshu vs Kensuke Sasaki (WJ, 7/20/03)

I really enjoyed both of these. Tenryu vs Choshu was a fun brawl between two old men but that Choshu vs Sasaki match was what really surprised me. It's the first round of a tournament and old man Choshu is outmatched but his underdog story was really compelling. Part of that was because Sasaki who did a great job of dominating him with brutal offense, cutting him off, and selling both the frustration that his mentor is now old and weak as well as his surprise that Choshu makes his comebacks and refuses to go down easily in the end. Choshu makes all of his transitions to offense via trickery and it feels like that's his only chance of holding his own against Sasaki. He throws punches or throws Sasaki over the ropes.

 

Riki Choshu vs Katsuyori Shibata (Riki Pro, 9/3/05)

The opening video package has me pretty excited with it's pull apart brawls and guys wearing MMA gloves. If you pretend Big Mouth Loud, Zero-One, World Japan, Riki Pro, and IGF were actually New Japan then you could say New Japan had an awesome decade. This match itself is fun as hell. It's just under 10 minutes and it's a fast and brutal 10 minutes. Shibata jumps Choshu before he can enter the ring and beats the crap out of him for most of the match before he has the hubris to think he can headlock Choshu and not get backdropped. Well, he gets backdropped and Choshu makes a pretty good comeback with a series of lariats. Probably not a top 100 match but way way better than most of what New Japan was actually doing at the time.

 

 

His Onita match from 2000 is not a good showing though:

 

 

Riki Choshu vs Atsushi Onita (No Ropes Exploding Barbed Wire Death Match) (NJPW, 7/30/00)

I guess a lot of people hate this match and I can totally see why. Choshu doesn't sell anything in this match. Not any strikes, not a DDT, and at one point he bounces off the barbed wire to hit a lariat and doesn't even wince. The closest thing he does to selling is one of the explosions knocks him down but he promptly gets back up. Still, this was pretty entertaining to me even if it wasn't good. Obviously Onita has a knack for dramatic imagery. His entrance with the fans throwing garbage at him while he sits down and smokes a cigarette is beautiful. In the ring he sells his beating like he's given up on living and bumps into the exploding barbed wire on each side of the ring. He spits out a bloody loogie to sell a punch. He even grabs the barbed wire to break a Scorpion Deathlock at one point which was pretty funny. If this sounds entertaining to you then you'll have fun.

 

[JerryvonKramer]

Choshu / Yatsu is one of my favourite tag teams. Revolutionary, amazing. I loved the mid-80s tags.

 

After Choshu left and it was Jumbo / Yatsu against Tenryu and Hara in 88 I found it much more of a chore to get through.

[DR Ackermann]

I guess I'm in the minority, but for me most of those tags were just way too long and repetitive. There were two of them that i thought were really great though. Can't remember which off the top of my head.

[DR Ackermann]

Looking back at my notes I actually rated the 1.28.86, 2.5.86, & 1.24.87 tag matches w/ Yatsu against Jumbo & Tenryu as being really good to great. None of them blew me away though and the rest of his tag matches in AJPW were either OK or good. Of the tag matches & trios leading up to the the big 5-on-5 gauntlet in NJPW I only had one of the matches rated as good, the rest were just OK.

 

When Choshu has to go long I feel like he suffers a bit, but I would also say that is a reason why I'm not a huge fan of Jumbo. So many long matches. It could just be a case of viewer fatigue because I watched a lot of those matches pretty close together. Maybe some reevaluation is do on my part.

[DR Ackermann]

Also when I say very good to great that would be in the 3 3/4 to 4 1/4 range if you were going by stars.

[fxnj]

The 2/85 Jumbo/Tenryu tag with Saito in Yatsu's is a great match right up there with the big tags mentioned. Everybody in there is incredible in how they play off the hot crowd and create an engaging match without giving too much away for the rematches.

 

I also dig what I've seen of his 6 man tag work. Him, Yatsu, and Kobayashi against Tsuruta, Tenryu, and Tiger Mask is the best I've seen from his AJPW run. The skill with which he worked in character and made the distinct personalities of everyone involved play as important a role in the match as the stiff action kind of lays the foundation for the 90s AJPW/NOAH 6 man style.

[Childs]

The 2/85 Jumbo/Tenryu tag with Saito in Yatsu's is a great match right up there with the big tags mentioned. Everybody in there is incredible in how they play off the hot crowd and create an engaging match without giving too much away for the rematches.

 

Now that's the match I truly regret leaving off the DVDVR set.

[JerryvonKramer]

I'm a bit confused about Saito's timeline and don't actually recall him on the AJ set at all.

 

As I understood it, Choshu asked Saito to be his mentor in New Japan when he formed the Revolution Army in 83, and Saito was technically the stable's leader. Now, I didn't know Saito made the jump to All Japan as well, and assumed that he would have been in JAIL at this time with Ken Patera.

 

I know Saito goes back to New Japan when Choshu does in 1987, but how was Saito not in prison in 02/85?

[DR Ackermann]

I believe Patera has said that the boulder/McDonald's story didn't happen anyway close to how people said and that Saito wasn't there at all.