Hiroshi Tanahashi

[Dylan Waco]

I think Nakamura is more adaptable than Tanahashi. I know they sometimes go with the story of Tanahashi trying to change/adapt his game to a particularly unique, violent, or dynamic performer, and some of those bouts are my favorite Tanahashi matches (the second Ishii match from last year, the Shibata match from this years G1 being the two standouts), but more often than not these bouts still feel like Tanahashi matches first and foremost. I'm not necessarily saying that is a bad thing - from a hardcore New Japan fans perspective they certainly aren't - but in all but a few cases they limit the appeal to me, and I'm not sure there is anything he does well enough on his own terms to ever make me really excited. When I say this people think I'm picking on him on unfairly because a lot of folks don't like Mike Bennett, but I think Bennett is one of the better guys in ROH and to me it's not surprising that Tanahashi couldn't have a good, stripped down match with Bennett in NY. Nakamura on the other hand had extremely different types of matches v. Sakuraba, Ibushi, Tanahashi, Ishii, Steen, Fale, Captain New Japan and others just in the last twelve months. I don't see that with Tanahashi.

[KrisZ]

Another difference with Nakamura & Tanahashi is their runs in Mexico as Nakamura definitely adapted better in Mexico while Tanahashi a lot of times rested on his laurels and just went through the motions.

[Alan4L]

I love both but Tanahashi has had at least four times the MOTYC's as Shinsuke in my book. Probably more to be honest. On paper Shinsuke seems like the better wrestler to me too, but in terms of output it's not even close. Shinsuke lets me down way more than Tanahashi does (this past weekend being a good example).

[BillThompson]

Watched his G1 2013 match versus Okada. I'm sorry guys, I'm really trying but Tanahashi just isn't very good at the pro wrestling. The same problems I listed earlier were present in this match, only now you can add in ridiculously bad choreographed counters, and a complete lack of selling on his part. Worst offense is that the match bored me to tears, probably the most boring match I've seen in some time.

[W2BTD]

Watched his G1 2013 match versus Okada. I'm sorry guys, I'm really trying but Tanahashi just isn't very good at the pro wrestling. The same problems I listed earlier were present in this match, only now you can add in ridiculously bad choreographed counters, and a complete lack of selling on his part. Worst offense is that the match bored me to tears, probably the most boring match I've seen in some time.

 

One of the best matches I've ever seen, and one of the half dozen or so full five stars I've ever doled out. Here is my original review from VoW:

 

8. Block A: Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Kazachika Okada – These two have had four epic matches over the last two years, so this was one of the most anticipated matches of the tournament. They did some mat work early. Tanahashi was getting the better of the highspot exchanges, and working the arm to negate the Rainmaker, which is a common theme when these two face off. Tanahashi got caught showboating on the top rope, and Okada drop kicked him to the floor.

 

This led to an Okada control period where he worked the neck. Tanahashi eventually regained control and went after Okada’s knee, including a High Fly Flow to the knee and a nice dragon screw. Okada sells damage, particularly leg damage, about a billion times better than Naito. I hate to keep harping on that, but it’s been a theme this entire week. Okada is just way, way better than Naito in every way, despite Naito’s reputation. Anyway, Tanahashi hit a HFF on the outside, then used a Dragon Screw over the middle rope. He then tried a Texas Cloverleaf, but Okada fought it off. Tanahashi was stomping the knee like Ron Garvin, and doing subtle heel mannerisms. He whipped Okada into the ropes, but Okada collapsed on the damaged knee. So good. Strike exchanges, and Okada kept collapsing. I hope Naito was watching. Okada fired himself up, and landed a DDT. Both men were down at this point, and this thing was becoming another classic. Okada did his pose but his Rainmaker attempt was reversed into a German. A hot exchange led to a Okada dropkick being reversed into a dragon screw, into a Texas Cloverleaf. Okada made the ropes. Tanahashi mocked the Rainmaker pose and got booed out of the building. He got tossed out, but skinned the cat and hit the slingblade. Okada rolled out of the way of a HFF, and both men were down. Okada gained control and went into his sequence. Dropkick, set up the Rainmaker, but Tanahashi ducked. A million reversals in about two total seconds, and TANAHASHI landed a Rainmaker.

 

Holy shit this was some match. Two count on a dragon suplex, Styles Clash, Okada gets the knees up on a High Fly Flow. Okada went for one last desperation Rainmaker, and collapsed on his knee. Time ran out. Draw. Another masterpiece. Five stars. *****

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This was incredible in every way. Perfectly executed, perfectly paced for the 30 minute draw gimmick, and so well worked that in real time I was unable to sniff out the draw, which is incredibly rare because draws are always obvious within minutes which kills the match dead for me.

 

Okada was awesome here, a classic sell job, in what was maybe his best overall performance ever (neck & neck with Invasion Attack 2013, or maybe this year's G1 Final). Tanahashi was great as the subtle heel, working the leg and being a cocky prick. Okada's desperation at the end, going for one last attack but collapsing on the wounded leg as time ran out, was what great wrestling is all about. So much emotion & FIGHT.

 

At the end of the day this will probably be one of my top five matches of the decade, maybe top three.

[BillThompson]

Don't you have to hit someone so that it hurts in order for there to be fight?

 

I'll be honest Joe, I find it very odd that you like Tanhashi so much. In every way he seems like the opposite of what you usually espouse in a pro wrestler. As for this match, your five star classic nets probably around a *1/2 from me. We're on different planets with this match my friend.

[WingedEagle]

Watched his G1 2013 match versus Okada. I'm sorry guys, I'm really trying but Tanahashi just isn't very good at the pro wrestling. The same problems I listed earlier were present in this match, only now you can add in ridiculously bad choreographed counters, and a complete lack of selling on his part. Worst offense is that the match bored me to tears, probably the most boring match I've seen in some time.

 

Damn, that's a shame. I loved this one and thought it built perfectly despite having the expectation of a draw working against them, a bugaboo they not only overcame but completely removed from the back of my mind while watching. Tough to say just where I'd put this in their series. Definitely ahead of the Dome and Tanahashi winning the title back in their first rematch. Solid ****1/2 snowflakes in these eyes. If strikes that you see as shoot-like are necessary for your enjoyment, then your mileage here and on their matches will definitely not go very far.

[BillThompson]

It's not really shoot strikes I'm looking for, but something that looks like it connects and does damage. All of Tanahashi's offense is as light as a feather, but his strikes are especially offensively light. He keeps engaging in the "I elbow you, you elbow me, I elbow you, repeat ad nauseum*" exchanges in the matches I've been watching and his elbows are always woefully inept. They don't get much better when he's throwing them just to throw them either.

 

*In the interest of full disclosure, I've been watching a lot of 2010s puro the past few days and I've grown to absolutely hate that idiotic exchange, no matter who is doing it.

[dawho5]

I hated that stuff when I started the 2000s project. After a while it became something I glossed over more often than not. Helped me enjoy the rest of the match.

[W2BTD]

Don't you have to hit someone so that it hurts in order for there to be fight?

 

I'll be honest Joe, I find it very odd that you like Tanhashi so much. In every way he seems like the opposite of what you usually espouse in a pro wrestler. As for this match, your five star classic nets probably around a *1/2 from me. We're on different planets with this match my friend.

 

I like Tanahashi because he has great, exciting matches with well executed & constructed stories. The 30-minute G1 draw is a perfect example, imo.

 

The thing about his weak strikes, and this also extends to Cena who gets similar shit for his strikes, is that I honestly couldn't care less. I never noticed Tanahashi's weak offense of Cena's weak punches or whatever until I saw people point them out. Neither of those guys attempt to project themselves as tough street brawlers or hard ass legit fighters, so that's not what i'm looking for in a Tanahashi (or Cena) performance. It's not what they do, so who cares?

 

Tanahashi is a Shawn Michaels style dramatic, "big match" worker. They are very similar, so I can see why you don't like either of them. I can get into a Tanahashi or MIchaels match just as easily as I can get into a Ishii or Sekimoto or Goto style match, or a great flying match, or a short Rusev power sprint. I don't think I have a type of wrestler I like as much as styles of matches that I like.

[pol]

Working my way through all the Okada/Tanahashi matches to prepare for the Dome show. I thought the 2012 Dome main event was very good. Here's what I wrote elsewhere:

 

First Okada match I can understand the effusive praise for. To me this felt a lot more like a Tanahashi match than an Okada match in terms of how it was laid out. Kinda like a WWE epic Wrestlemania main event in the sense that while on the micro level none of the individual things they did were particularly interesting (mostly just a lot of signature spots), the big picture story was very well told.

Likes:
- Tanahashi going back down to the ramp to drag Okada back into the ring like "oh hell no son you aren't getting counted out".
- Okada actually dominated most of the match with Tanahashi having to be opportunistic and find spots to get offense in (which seems to be a standard Tanahashi trope). They saved the back-and-forth for the end, which made it more meaningful.
- I don't think it's appropriate for the climax to every big match to be this epic selling deal with lots of trading big moves interspersed with laying around, and they do probably overuse that trope in NJPW, but for a Dome main event you certainly can and maybe even should do that.
- They didn't do a bunch of near-falls that nobody would have bought anyway because of how modern NJPW main events are always laid out.

Dislikes:
- Limb work that went absolutely nowhere. Not sure if it's an Okada or a Tanahashi thing or just a trope of the modern NJPW main event style in general but it does come up a lot. I guess the idea was to have drama by teasing Okada submitting to the Texas Clover but who actually buys that possibility?
- Tanahashi is so incredibly limited as an offensive wrestler - how many Sling Blades do we really need to see in one match? Luckily this match was more about structure than Stuff.
- Finish was pretty predictable since you know the match will only end on a finisher and there's going to be at least one finisher kickout.
- Might not be fair to judge a match from 2012 for this, the constant Rainmaker reversals in the latter third of a match are soooo played out at this point.

Overall, very good match. Probably better at the Dome than it would have been any other time of year because of intangibles like big match feel. Both guys came off as huge stars in that setting. Not FIVE STARS good to me but I can at least understand where people are coming from with that.

[soup23]

Want to make sure you are talking about the 1/4/13 match POL and not the February 2012 one where Okada wont the IWGP.

[pol]

Definitely the 2012 one - Tanahashi wins. Haven't seen the 2013 one yet.

[El McKell]

The match you reviewed is the 2013 dome show, the first Okada vs Tanahashi match is in February 2012

[pol]

Whoops, you're right. My bad

[W2BTD]

Bumping because i'm interested in hearing some thoughts on Tanahashi after what to me was his best overall G1 to date, including the best Tanahashi/Nakamura match to date.

 

He had 6-7 legitimately great bouts, half of which were MOTY contenders, and the most impressive thing about it was that nearly every match was very different structure wise. The last month may have been the best run of his already HOF career.

[Tim Cooke]

Tanahashi might make my list. I like his match layout and while his execution can be heavily flawed, match layout is more important to me.

 

But is his best match even close to the best 3 Misawa/Kawada, Misawa/Kobashi, or even Misawa/Taue matches? I don't think so and that automatically keeps him out of the top 30.

 

Is his best match as good or better than Hashimoto vs Choshu (8/2/96), Chono vs Mutoh (8/11/91), or Hashimoto vs Tenyru (2/17/94)? If not, that keeps him out of the top 60-70.

 

Also, has anyone really watched all of his 2001-2010 stuff besides Stuart from Puroresufan? How much of that is good? Was he getting a good rep before Meltzer finally started watching New Japan again in 2011?

 

For a person with the same time frame as a wrestler, Daniel Bryan pretty clearly has a bigger and wider output of great matches. Danielson probably makes it in the top 40, but it's not gauanteed and he is a LOCK to make the list for someone who only worked from 2000 on.

[soup23]

He made my top 100 due to the bump, but oddly enough listening to Voices of Wrestling yesterday made me question that. While I do understand that we dont have the whole picture of All Japan due to the way their tv and commercial releases were, I also don't use that as an excuse for Tanahashi for his awfulness in the tags. I didn't like the Yano series really at all and he dogged it big time in the US when he had an opportunity to make a splash. On the other hand, I really enjoyed the Styles matches a lot this year and the Okada and Nakamura stuff this year has been fabulous. I think I will do a deep dive on Tanahashi on where he will end up but I also want to keep in context just how many meaningless performances I have seen him in. I do in some ways think Tanahashi is a litmus test for "great match Theory" and how much an individual subscribes to that.

[KrisZ]

I was a HUGE Tanahashi guy in the 2000's before I got disenchanted with Japanese wrestling in general after I quit reporting on it. He was a fantastic worker back then that was overshadowed by all the Inoki-ISM bullshit and I along with other New Japan fans used to get extremely pissed at Dave for not reporting on New Japan accurately.....my how times have changed

[WingedEagle]

But is his best match even close to the best 3 Misawa/Kawada, Misawa/Kobashi, or even Misawa/Taue matches?

 

 

Probably not, but if the standard are 3 of the 5 or 10 best ever and another who's not far off, then almost every wrestler ever fails in comparison.

 

 

Is his best match as good or better than Hashimoto vs Choshu (8/2/96), Chono vs Mutoh (8/11/91), or Hashimoto vs Tenyru (2/17/94)? If not, that keeps him out of the top 60-70.

 

 

Yes, I think his matches with Suzuki in 2012, a few with Okada and the G1 final with Nakamura are leaps and bounds better than any of these.

[Benbeeach]

Tanahashi not having good performances before 2011 is laughable. Some of his best stuff is from his early post young lion years to the time he was finding his footing as being "the man." Where he's just showing fire and galvanizing crowds with his selling. He had even less credible offense then so it's not like he was some finished product, but you don't get to here, (wherever here is for him now as a worker, your mileage may vary) without there. And Danielsons output dwarfs almost everybody that debuted from this time frame, Tanahashi is one of the few that still belong in the discussion at least.

[donsem43]

Also, has anyone really watched all of his 2001-2010 stuff besides Stuart from Puroresufan? How much of that is good? Was he getting a good rep before Meltzer finally started watching New Japan again in 2011?

 

The '04 G1 final with Tenzan, 12/10/06 title match with Nakamura, '06/'07 stuff with Nagata, and the '08 All Japan Carny run were all pretty good if not great.

[GOTNW]

Tanahashi's earlier work can be quite fascinating. His 2005 Dome match vs. Nakamura brought some interesting ideas but you get bullshit like no selling a Superplex and the match eventually falls apart and you can see a good chunk of people start to leave immediately after it's over. Their 2006 IWGP title match is almost like an inverse version of the match they'd have now as the first half is unbelievably strong and the matwork is way better than you'd expect the best Nakamura-Tanahashi matwork to be but they couldn't follow it up with a captivating finishing stretch. Then there's stuff like his match vs. Scott Hall where Hall squashes the shit out of him, starts cutting a promo on Muto mid-match and Tanahashi beats him with a surprise roll up, a fun tag w/ Kensuke Sasaki vs. The Steiner Brothers and his IWGP title match vs. Kazuyuki Fujita which is a wonderful slaughter and pretty much what a Brock Lesnar vs. Shawn Michaels match would look like except shoot kicks to the head replace suplexes. His matches vs. Tenzan in the 2003 and 2004 G1 are a prototype of him working a style he'd adopt and become synonymous for later in his career. I'd say he matured as a worker in 2007 feuding against Nagata. Their series from that year is, in my estimation, the best stuff he's ever done.

[W2BTD]

I had Tanahashi #25 on a Top 100 list I did in 2011. He was already pretty great by then.

[dawho5]

He had a great 2004 match against Kazuyuki Fujita. I thought it was one of his better matches as it highlighted his ability to play FIP really well.