JerryvonKramer Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Is it okay to ask on what planet Steve Williams is considered a better wrestler than Ric Flair? I mean we could go through each and every guy and say "why him over Flair", but Williams stands out to me as being a guy who was actively bad for portions of his career. And even considering his highlights, it's pretty staggering to find him on the list when a lot of guys aren't there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrainfollower Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Can't argue with that Parv. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 My instinctive reaction was that Williams has to make it due to his incredible peak. He's not someone I'd place very highly but even in his not-great All Japan stuff I always found him very enjoyable. I have no idea how he was in the states and my list would look completely different if I had the time to be a completist for every wrestler but I don't. It's possible his US work is disappointing or just mediocre. I doubt I'll make time to properly assess that before the deadline as I have other priorities in mind. And you could make "the Ric Flair argument" for about 70% of my list but as it stands I do not like Flair nearly as much as you or any other wrestling fan really. There's a decent chance he'd fallen off as some other wrestlers whose case is based mostly on peak did. He still might because he is in the lower part of my list and I intend to go through the list of nominees and compare the guys I have on it to those I had on it previously or I'd considered. But it could just be a matter of not being familiar with the "bad" Williams. I saw him break someone's nose with a shoot kick in a short match I thought was pretty amazing in american UWF and that's about the extent of my Dr.Death US knowledge. Oh and his WWF run too. There's a squash where he's in a handicap match vs. The Hardys and just dumps them on their head a lot which I adored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Williams has a weird trajectory in that he was pretty good in Mid-South (and we've seen some highlights on NWA classics,magics boost his case in my view), but then really isn't very good in WCW. I don't like him much in Japan either until his highlights in 1994. I find him an interesting person to think about. There are still some months left till the deadline and I'd recommend dropping basically everything else and making 80s Crockett / NWA your absolute priority. I mean even if you don't like Flair there a ton of other guys missing from your list, which seems like it is due to a lack of exposure. Pretty high ranking for AJ Styles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 There are plenty of workers I like who I just don't feel strongly about to rank. I like Tully Blanchard a lot, and I can see why someone would think the Magnum TA match is an all time classic, and it's a great match to me but it's not something that connects to me on the level of the great puro and lucha, and I could replace Tully with a lot of other guys in that formulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Low Ki above Jerry Lawler was one of the first things I noticed but it's fine, everyone's list is going to have things that some of us find odd. GOTNW's profile says he's only 19 too. He didn't grow up in the same eras that others of us did too. I find it interesting. Happy birthday, by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew79 Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Still I welcome anyone asking "why isn't x on here?" Mayumi Ozaki? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Another thing I noticed about GOTNW's list: Owen Hart is there, but Bret isn't. How come? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 I could replace Tully with a lot of other guys in that formulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Mayumi Ozaki? I like Oz but just haven't gotten the impression she's that good based on what I've seen so far. Another thing I noticed about GOTNW's list: Owen Hart is there, but Bret isn't. How come? Owen is there mostly for his consistency and great TV work and I also loved him as a junior in New Japan. Low Ki above Jerry Lawler was one of the first things I noticed but it's fine, everyone's list is going to have things that some of us find odd. GOTNW's profile says he's only 19 too. He didn't grow up in the same eras that others of us did too. I find it interesting. Happy birthday, by the way. Like I said there's not much order once you get to that part of the list but Ki above Lawler seems just fine to me. And thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parties Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 As Elliott noted back in May - the weirdest thing in making this list is when you have to do a side-by-side comparison of elite but totally different workers. Do I like Fuchi more than I like Steamboat? Finlay over Black Terry? Buddy Rose or Jim Breaks? Virus or Bobby Eaton? Some of those #25-50 slots are really tough to choose.While I do have a working list of 100 that I’d be happy with, I also have an ever-revised list of 40-50 opt-ins who I need to see more of, or just figure out where I stand on them. Like, I’ve seen a ton of Tommy Rich, Ole Anderson, Tito Santana, Koko Ware and Dan Kroffat. But if I devote a few hours to just watching interesting matches of theirs that I’ve never seen, which could make my list? Only one way to find out. This is true of tons of people who aren’t shoo-ins but are intriguing candidates. Then there are some Lucha and Joshi options who I’m just not familiar with. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a Yumi Ikeshita match. I’d need to see a lot more Emilio Charles, Jr. or Ringo Mendoza for example to gauge where each stands.Basically trying to tackle one worker a day and fully immerse my viewing in that person as much as possible each day leading up to the deadline. It definitely focuses what I watch and creates a fun compilation nature to the process. The YouTube/DM playlists devoted to a single worker are goldmines in this sense.My #100 (which changes constantly) as of today is Seiji Sakaguchi, who doesn't even have a thread yet (I should get on this). Who seems like kind of an amusing barometer to measure people against. After watching a few hours of your stuff (ideally your best/highly praised stuff), do I like you more or less than I like Sakaguchi?The most amazing part of all of it is just how short and tough a top 100 really is once you get going. So many awesome workers who’d make a top 200 and not this. So many heartbreakers where a guy I love is coming in at #106. For me, that bottom 10 is going to have some sentimental favorites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjaminkicks Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Pretty high ranking for AJ Styles. Depending on who you ask. AJ will make my top 30. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ship Canal Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 As of yesterday, in no order yet whatsoever and so far only 73 names. Akira Taue Shinya HashimtoTatsumi FunjinamiRiki ChoshuAkira HokutoBarry WindhamBlack TerryLou TheszAJ StylesBobby EatonBull NakanoDave FinlayMasaaki MochizukiDick MurdochVolk HanKyoshi TamuraRon GarvinAndre the GiantDick TogoGreat SasukeHayabusaAdrian StreetRandy SavageRicky SteamboatRicky MortonWilliam RegalYoshiaki FujiwaraVaderHiroshi HaseAja KongManami ToyotaJaguar YokotaChigusa NagayoEl Hijo Del SantoNegro CasasRey MysterioBlue PantherEl SatanicoEl DandyBrock LesnarJohn CenaMasa FuchiMick FoleyBret HartRick MartelMegumi KudoGreg ValentineJusghin LigerJumbo TsurutaGenichiro TenyruGiant BabaThe DestroyerNick BockwinkelBilly RobinsonTerry FunkRic FlairArn AndersonTully BlanchardJerry LawlerStan HansenToshiaki KawadaMitsuharu MisawaKenta KobashiLittle GuidoJun AkiyamaYoshihito TajiriSteve AustinYoshiaki YatsuYuki IshikawaNecrobutcherStan LaneDustin RhodesDaniel BryanSamoa JoeEddie GuerreroJohnny SaintSteve GreyJim Breaks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 Distinct lack of Ted DiBiase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ship Canal Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 Distinct lack of Ted DiBiase. Shit, I was meant to add Dibiase in the last revision after having caught up on more of his mid south suff. He'll make it, fear not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 Don't give in to Parv Pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ship Canal Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 Don't give in to Parv Pressure. On the contrary Matt, Jay Strongbow and Steve Williams are late shouts for my #1 and #2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlet-Left Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 My locked-in top five are; Bret Hart, Ric Flair, Curt Hennig, Harley Race and Pat Patterson (though not, necessarily, in that order). My locked-in "somewhere on the list" workers are; Roddy Piper, Lex Luger, Tully Blanchard, Shinobu Kandori, Owen Hart, Terry Funk, Steve Austin, Arn Anderson, Undertaker, Terry Taylor, Kana, Lance Storm, AJ Styles and Buddy Landell. My "probably on the list" workers are; Ted Dibiase, Mike Rotunda, Greg Valentine, Sasha Banks, Chris Benoit, Ron Simmons, Steve Keirn, Nick Bockwinkel, Madusa Micelli, Scott Hall and Kevin Sullivan. My "should put on the list but won't" workers are; Shawn Michaels, Hulk Hogan, Sean Waltman and Jimmy Valiant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 Fascinates me that you'd put Patterson so high. Any reasons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlet-Left Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 Fascinates me that you'd put Patterson so high. Any reasons? He gets a boost based on how entertaining I find him despite his physique (same with Race and, to a lesser extent, Sullivan). Hennig and Luger get a hand-up, in that regard. Does that make sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 Yeah, I was just wondering how much you'd seen. I love his 1979 WWF run and stuff with Slaughter, but there isn't much footage available sadly from before that -- a bit of silent stuff from early 70s San Francisco. I want to rank him as highly as possible, but lack of footage limits him for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 My locked-in top five are; Bret Hart, Ric Flair, Curt Hennig, Harley Race and Pat Patterson (though not, necessarily, in that order). My locked-in "somewhere on the list" workers are; Roddy Piper, Lex Luger, Tully Blanchard, Shinobu Kandori, Owen Hart, Terry Funk, Steve Austin, Arn Anderson, Undertaker, Terry Taylor, Kana, Lance Storm, AJ Styles and Buddy Landell. My "probably on the list" workers are; Ted Dibiase, Mike Rotunda, Greg Valentine, Sasha Banks, Chris Benoit, Ron Simmons, Steve Keirn, Nick Bockwinkel, Madusa Micelli, Scott Hall and Kevin Sullivan. My "should put on the list but won't" workers are; Shawn Michaels, Hulk Hogan, Sean Waltman and Jimmy Valiant. This is not said with any malice at all, but that's by far the weirdest fucking list I've seen for this project. Kudos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlet-Left Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 Yeah, I was just wondering how much you'd seen. I love his 1979 WWF run and stuff with Slaughter, but there isn't much footage available sadly from before that -- a bit of silent stuff from early 70s San Francisco. I want to rank him as highly as possible, but lack of footage limits him for me. I don't know if this frowned upon, or not, but I'm also factoring in his stuff with Stevens. Edit: It was Blonde Bombers footage that first turned me onto him. This is not said with any malice at all, but that's by far the weirdest fucking list I've seen for this project. Kudos. Yes, I've noticed that myself. That said, I'm happy with it. As it gets down to the time, there're probably some guys I'll have to really scrutinise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 Yeah, I was just wondering how much you'd seen. I love his 1979 WWF run and stuff with Slaughter, but there isn't much footage available sadly from before that -- a bit of silent stuff from early 70s San Francisco. I want to rank him as highly as possible, but lack of footage limits him for me. I don't know if this frowned upon, or not, but I'm also factoring in his stuff with Stevens. Typically we go on footage we've seen not just on rep. As far as I know, there isn't any Patterson / Stevens stuff on tape so vast majority of people never saw them. The hype around Ray Stevens has been of interest to me because it's not really in evidence from what we see of him later in his career. I started reviewing what we have of his team with Bock from AWA here: http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/30606-ray-stevens-nick-bockwinkel/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlet-Left Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 Typically we go on footage we've seen not just on rep. As far as I know, there isn't any Patterson / Stevens stuff on tape so vast majority of people never saw them. Isn't there? It's very short but there's this: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.