BillThompson Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 I hope it's fucking awful. Like "let's start firing people" awful. It'll probably be good, but the fact that WWE no longer seems to understand the importance of long term booking is a bad omen for this company for the next few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 Performance of the night was Parv heeling on the females like he was Bobby Heenan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerva Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 I am wondering how much that Sting vs Taker Summerslam match was actually going to happen. And if it was going to happen, what made them change their minds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 I am wondering how much that Sting vs Taker Summerslam match was actually going to happen. And if it was going to happen, what made them change their minds why give away their biggest money drawing Wrestlemania match? (I'm only half kidding) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 At this point, John Cena could beat 80's Hulkamania Hulk Hogan, 5-year champion Bruno, The Undertaker at Wrestlemania & full streak mode Goldberg in a 4-on-1 Handicap match & no one would blink an eye. It's just fucking corny. I am really late to comment on this but- I sometimes go to a forum called Comic Vine,:and they have a subforum where people talk about who wins in a fight between superheroes or anime characters or any other fictional characters. Lately there has been an increase in fights featuring John Cena...and in most of them he wins. This is against the likes of Superman. Rather silly but it tells you everything about the perception of the guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDuke Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 I am posting this before reading the thread to say what I liked and didn't like about the show. As mentioned, I was watching it on the big screen in a movie theatre with a bunch of other wrestling fans, so I suppose in that respect it is almost like going to a live show, in that the fun and excitement of the moment makes the wrestling seem much better. I should say there wasn't many people in the theatre, so perhaps that shows WWE is doing something wrong, as I am sure the theatre would have made more money by having a regular move on that screen in that slot instead of a wrestling PPV. I should also mentioned the people who were there with me seemed to be die hard Cena fans, as they applauded or cheered at the end of the Cena match and some were wearing Cena merchandise. Orton vs Sheamus surprised me. I enjoyed it a lot more than I expected to. I know I have read before that Sheamus was not that bad a wrestler, but never believed it until now. The announcers didn't talk about it as they were too busy making inane comments to discuss the match, but I assume Sheamus' Cloverleaf submission actually twists or puts pressure on the lower back as that is where Sheamus seemed to be attacking Orton earlier in the match. I didn't like the finish, I thought if Orton was going to win a better place would have been earlier when he did that DDT move through the ropes into the ring. I don't really like the RKO out of nowhere. I can understand they want to show that a finisher can come at any time and can get a pinfall, but it felt like it wasn't connected to the rest of the match. So the majority of the match was good, but for me, the finish brought it down to just OK territory. Prime Time Players vs New Day was a lot of fun, like I expected. I did not expect PTP to win, but am happy for them. O'Neil was amazing when he came in for the hot tag, he just kind of dominated the ring with a lot of energy. I am surprised during his singles run that WWE really did not do much with him, he seems like somebody the fans could get behind. I also really enjoyed Xavier Woods at ringside shouting out things during the match. He was much more interesting to listen to than the commentary. I thought the New Day promo before the match began was well done. I was only in a movie theatre and felt like like standing up and screaming for them to shut up, so I feel they know how to get the hate. I think this match may have been my favourite match of the night, nothing exceptional but a good match. Wyatt vs Reigns was not very interesting. I felt a little bored during it, and had trouble paying attention to what was going on. I like Wyatt as a character as he is so different from the other heels on the show right now, but as a wrestler he is not very exciting. This reminded me of Attitude era wrestling, a bunch of punches and stomps, and throwing the guy into the corner and brawling on the outside. It doesn't make a lot of sense as these guys are throwing these punches at each other and it doesn't seem to be really hurting each other. Then partway through Wyatt puts Reigns in a chin-lock or something, and I think "oh now must be time for the wrestling part of this match." Also, the ending wasn't very good, in light of the main event, they shouldn't have also had a run in here. And I am not really sure why Harper is now with Wyatt again, although I guess they will explain that on RAW. I do like Wyatt's senton and his clothesline though. Again, not a good match, kind of boring. Banks vs Charlotte vs Brie was a lot better than I was expecting, and went longer as well. This is probably my number 2 match of the night. I don't have a lot to say, it wasn't super amazing, but I enjoyed watching these women run around the ring putting these moves and stuff on each other. Probably a lot of the enjoyment is because usually the women's matches are bathroom and snack breaks for me, and this was interesting enough to get me to keep watching. Banks seems like a really good heel, and Charlotte seems good at getting the crowd behind her. Cena vs Owens started off not that great. It just seemed like a sting of moves without much of a story behind it, I have seen Owens work in ROH before and he seemed a lot better there than he does here. However, once they go into the section with all the near falls I really enjoyed it. I liked Cena's code red or whatever you call it move. I wish a move like that would have been used more towards the end of the match. I laughed out loud when Owens used the STF on Cena, I really enjoyed that little moment in the match. It was funny that we saw these guys use all these finishers against each other, but I was really thinking towards the end that it would be great if the match ended with a pinfall after like a simple clothesline or lariat. I think it would be a believable end to a story like that, but I'm no wrestler so what do I know. The finish was OK with the STF, so overall I thought this match was good. The Miz I though did an alright promo, but I think it should have been used to setup a match more than being used to setup the Big Show punching him. That was not a very good use of PPV time. Lesnar vs Rollins I also really enjoyed. I do realize that with all the suplexes, Rollins should not have been able to put up much of a fight. I loved seeing Rollins start kicking at Lesnar's legs to try to get him off his feet, it shows that he did kind of have some type of strategy to win the match. Also, his costume makes it looks like he has some type of foot or leg guards in the front of his boots, so I assume that could be put to use in hurting Lesnar in a heelish way. Also, I loved with Rollins rolled out of the ring, went and grabbed his belt, and tried to just run off through the crowd. I really appreciate the characters in wrestling, and that just so beautifully fit Rollins character. As for the Undertaker, yeah I marked out when he showed up. I thought it made a lot of sense that Rollins would have something up his sleeve to get out of losing the match, and I thought it really made sense from a storyline perspective for Undertaker to want to get revenge on Lesnar. It is continuing the storyline from a year ago when Lesnar ended the streak plus maybe he is also getting revenge for Lesnar attacking Undertaker's brother Kane with the steel ring steps. Lesnar is often shown being an uncontrollable animal, so it is good to show there are sometimes consequences to his actions from a storyline perspective. And now I am thinking about an Undertaker Lesnar rematch; would Lesnar manhandle Taker again, or has Taker better prepared himself to stand up to Lesnar before taking his final ride into the sunset. You have to understand I have been watching Undertaker since I was like 9 years old and he won his first title feuding with Hulk Hogan. He was a big part of my childhood wrestling fandom, and so just seeing him again like that when I wasn't expecting to just makes the young fan in me cheer. I don't think Undertaker is a heel now, I just think Lesnar is more of a tweener right now than a true face. I do understand it sucks that they never announced the finish of the match, I am assuming Lesnar won via disqualification. Anyway, I though this was also a good match and really enjoyed it. 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PWI500 Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 I hope it's fucking awful. Like "let's start firing people" awful. It'll probably be good, but the fact that WWE no longer seems to understand the importance of long term booking is a bad omen for this company for the next few years. Totally agree, the booking now is completely illogical and short-sighted. Maybe Vince can bring in Kevin Sullivan to replace his current team of 38 writers? Many issues are plaguing the current product... amongst which the fact no one on the current roster knows how to "sell" moves properly anymore, very few "A" players (Cena is the most recognizable--not good)and that you have the worst 3-man announce team in the history of professional wrestling, things are looking bleak for ole' Vince. Lawler, in particular, was truly awful last night. Especially hated the part where he was basically begging the WWE fans to start being nice to Cena, cuz he's a "nice" guy. Fuck you Jerry, you scumbag! Go back no further than to the 1994 Lawler vs. Brett Hart's family to see how nice of a guy Lawler was. What happened to that King? Now we have this spineless old man who kisses ass full-time...lame. And don't even get me started on Cole...that d-bag has ruined WWE PPV's for the last 15 years. If we could replace these 3 with Tom, Byron and Renee I would be forever grateful. As far as Taker goes, I agree he has seen better days (by about 10 years) but i do love his ability to counter Brock Lesnar's OP beast-mode and I admit I did mark out a bit when he showed up last night. I like that they have the strap on Rollins cuz at least he is good on the mic and he plays the heel card very well right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 The more I think about this show, the more I think I'm done even attempting to keep up with current WWE. Most of the stuff that people have really liked in WWE lately hasn't done much for me, I thought the Cena/Owens series was all downhill after the first one & that the Cesaro/Cena matches weren't all that great either. I love Cena but his shit feels so samey now with everyone pushing him to the limit with a ton of big 2.9 kickouts. It's not dramatic to me at all. I just want to see them stop fucking around with Roman Reigns and actually give him a push but instead the crowd wants to cheer "worst act in WWE" Bray Wyatt over him and continue shitting on Reigns because "We're really smart!" so that's probably not going to happen. If they listen to the internet and actually turn Reigns heel then I'll know for sure there's no more reason for me to expect them to do anything I'll like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 One word : yawn. The tag match was okay and fun, but nowhere as good as the New Day's matches with Cesaro & Kidd. The Divas match was okay although the Triple Threat formula automatically makes it worst than it should. It's obvious it's all about Stephy though (who really looks more and more like her father, it's scary), which sucks. I also noticed how fake and robotic the entrance routine look in this setting, since basically each girl had to wait for the previous one to her little move so they could do their own. They don't work the crowd, they just do their routine because they are supposed to do it. I know it's all old problem dating back from the mid-00's, but it's so striking at times. Cena vs Owens was not even a good match to me. Self-conscious epic that wasn't epic at all. Move, kick out, move, kick out, finisher, kick out, your opponent's finisher, kick out, wash, rinse, repeat. Yeah, Cena is such a great worker, with such a great psychology... The main event… You know, suplexing a guy a hundred time was spectacular the first few times around, but when it becomes your entire gimmick, it makes you Dan Severn in 96 against Fujiwara in NJ. Bad match, and awful ending. Taker looks like he's living the gimmick. Couldn't give a flying fuck about what's coming. I should have known better. Bring Rusev & Lana back yesterday. Yeah. Yawn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlittlekitten Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 Really enjoyed Orton/Sheamus and the tag matches. Felt like a break out performance from Titus and Young. Didn't bother with the rest of the card but with Owens/Cena fizzling out and Taker returning things look fairly bleak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laz Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 The more I think about this show, the more I think I'm done even attempting to keep up with current WWE.WWE has turned into that old fling you run into now and then that makes you remember the great times you had together when you were younger and then you start seeing each other only to remember why you broke up in the first place but you keep giving each other second, third, fourth, etc. chances. I've never seen Steen/Owens work blander than he has since signing a WWE deal. I'm glad he's financially secure and being given a larger platform to perform but he's been the Black Album/Load since debuting on the main roster. Bad show. There were sparks of quality (I love how enthusiastic New Day are as super positive jackasses and Bray works well when he's going through bursts of actual motion instead of being "methodical" like every other WWE monster) but this show cemented why I stopped watching regularly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 Some random observations: - Roman Reigns vs. Bray Wyatt sucked. No chemistry whatsoever. Bray's heat and impact are ice cold, and his character is completely illogical. He spouts off nonsense because he's "fat and strange." There's no consistency. The hooded mystery man finish was wasted on Luke Harper. How was that special? That type of scenario should only be done when the person behind the hood is someone unexpected. Instead, it was the most obvious person. Why bother with the smoke and mirrors then? - Charlotte is so badly miscast as a babyface. Outside the ring (her facials, body language, etc.), she looked completely lost. Please turn her heel ASAP. The match itself was okay - certainly nowhere near any of the classics in NXT - but not bad. I expected Charlotte to get the win, but part of me was rooting for Sasha to get that big push. Then again, maybe her NXT Title is enough for now, and it's better to spread the wealth. Not sure. Either way, I hope Charlotte turns on her partners sooner rather than later. - Owens tapped out to Cena. It was what it was. We all knew it was coming. The match itself was good, but not as good as their others. The finisher spamming is a trend I'm so sick of. In a way, I'm glad Cena's reign will continue, because the open challenge has been among the most fun stuff of his career. I have no worries about Owens regaining his heat, because he's just that good. I hope the Cena/Owens feud is over though. Time to move on. - I knew Brock vs. Rollins was going to end with some kind of inconclusive finish when there were only 14 minutes left from bell-time. The Undertaker's return was awesome, but I had two issues with it: 1. How much more impactful would it have been if Taker had skipped Mania entirely instead of wasting his time in a bad match with Bray Wyatt that set both of them back? 2. Lesnar was a babyface for Rollins, but now he's a heel again for Undertaker? The writing is as bad, sloppy, and inconsistent as I've ever seen it. Almost none of the characters or their motivations are ever logical or consistent, which makes it that much harder to care about anyone. And if that was somehow meant to be an Undertaker heel turn, someone forgot to tell the fans. I don't think so though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 This show pretty much confirmed current WWE style is as interesting as 2010 ROH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradhindsight Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 C.S. - I'm fairly confident the low blow by Undertaker was meant to signify him turning heel for this feud. The crowd, however, completely didn't buy it and cheered him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 The booking of the main event reeked of 1998 WCW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 You could sell the fact that Undertaker coming for Brock is a big personal feud. If it was last year's SummerSlam. By now it's been 16 months since Undertaker lost to Brock and he already came back at this year's WrestleMania and wrestled someone else so why should I see this as "Taker's revenge!" and not the shitty, lazy "we need to get out of giving a real finish for this month's PPV main event" thing that it really is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PWI500 Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 You could sell the fact that Undertaker coming for Brock is a big personal feud. If it was last year's SummerSlam. By now it's been 16 months since Undertaker lost to Brock and he already came back at this year's WrestleMania and wrestled someone else so why should I see this as "Taker's revenge!" and not the shitty, lazy "we need to get out of giving a real finish for this month's PPV main event" thing that it really is. Exactly. Once again WWE writers don't know their head from their asses. Either that or Vince is so geriatric and delusional now that he overwrites everything they do and/or changes his mind on a whim. Personally after watching that stinker of a PPV i need another 3 month break from current WWE programming, I cannot bear to watch Raw tonight. Just awful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chief Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 Finish was the type of thing people would never forgive WCW for. People would still be shitting on that 15 years later like the Fingerpoke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 C.S. - I'm fairly confident the low blow by Undertaker was meant to signify him turning heel for this feud. The crowd, however, completely didn't buy it and cheered him. Which is terrible, because top babyfaces have done far worse. You could sell the fact that Undertaker coming for Brock is a big personal feud. If it was last year's SummerSlam. By now it's been 16 months since Undertaker lost to Brock and he already came back at this year's WrestleMania and wrestled someone else so why should I see this as "Taker's revenge!" and not the shitty, lazy "we need to get out of giving a real finish for this month's PPV main event" thing that it really is. Yep. Taker/Wyatt at WM never should've happened. It lessened the impact of this return and the Mania match sucked. Finish was the type of thing people would never forgive WCW for. People would still be shitting on that 15 years later like the Fingerpoke. Maybe the poor suckers who paid $60 for the show might feel that way, but in the Network era, it's slightly more acceptable. I disagree that this was anything like the Fingerpoke anyway, but I can understand why people would be disappointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 Finish was the type of thing people would never forgive WCW for. People would still be shitting on that 15 years later like the Fingerpoke. If the lights went off during Diamond Dallas Page vs Goldberg from Halloween Havoc 98 and Flair came out with an entourage and ran over Goldberg in a limo, I kind of wonder how that'd be received. Would Goldberg vs Hogan at the Georgia Dome be a better example? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 Finish was the type of thing people would never forgive WCW for. People would still be shitting on that 15 years later like the Fingerpoke. If the lights went off during Diamond Dallas Page vs Goldberg from Halloween Havoc 98 and Flair came out with an entourage and ran over Goldberg in a limo, I kind of wonder how that'd be received. Would Goldberg vs Hogan at the Georgia Dome be a better example? If Flair hadn't been seen in months (and I can't remember if that was the case), the fans would've popped IMO. Same for Taker. Comparing it to the Fingerpoke really isn't accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stiva Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 Out of all the fucking terrible finishes/booking that they've done since these shows came on the Network, this is nowhere near as bad as the time they bait and switched everyone with Rollins vs. Ambrose when it was the one match people wanted to see. Though my reaction to Taker was just continued laughter. Taker was beaten fair and square at Mania so he has nothing to seek but pride. Also, why has he waited 18 months? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chief Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 Finish was the type of thing people would never forgive WCW for. People would still be shitting on that 15 years later like the Fingerpoke. If the lights went off during Diamond Dallas Page vs Goldberg from Halloween Havoc 98 and Flair came out with an entourage and ran over Goldberg in a limo, I kind of wonder how that'd be received. Would Goldberg vs Hogan at the Georgia Dome be a better example? If Flair hadn't been seen in months (and I can't remember if that was the case), the fans would've popped IMO. Same for Taker. Comparing it to the Fingerpoke really isn't accurate. Which wasn't the point. Fans love surprises. Fans popped for the fingerpoke. Of course the fans will pop, it's the friggin' Undertaker. He's been portrayed as a Christ-like figure by the company for decades. The point was that if WCW did the exact same thing people would talking about how dumb it was and "typical WCW" years later. You can book Goldberg at his hottest against another star like a Sting or a DDP and then have 1998 Hulk Hogan comes out and legdrop everybody leading to no finish on a PPV. That's basically what happened last night and if it was WCW, everybody would bitch about how WCW can't let go of the past, etc. This won't immediately tank business but it's part of a bigger problem that's only going to get worse in the years to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 2015 Undertaker is more like 1998 Flair than 1998 Hogan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 More like 2002 Flair. He looked like an old man. The hair hurt his look even more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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