The Chief Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 Listen to the New Day on Jericho's podcast, they're today's guests. You'll get a real good idea of how dated Vince's views on race are. They actually bring up a lot of talking points I've seen discussed on this board and on PWO/P2B podcasts. That's another thing they really need to fix. Stop color-coding people and stop forcing every minority into 1970's stereotypes. I can't recall the last time a legit main event guy wasn't white. Maybe Bobby Lashley? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackwebb Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 1. Heels consistently getting the better of babyfaces. A staple of when Triple H was champion that should go away that hasn't. I somethings think he doesn't understand why the NWA had a touring heel champion and this will continue on for a while 2. Narration story telling. When they want to get someone over as sinister far too often now they just have other workers and the announcers call them sinister. Rather than have them actually do things that are sinister. Has far more impact in a play to show a man is a wife beater by having him beat on her. Rather than just have her call him it all the time. 3. Solo in ring promos. This connects to the last point. Even more ineffective in a play would be not calling the husband a wife beater in dialogue at all. Instead just going off and talking to the audience. This wouldn't be as much of an issue if they weren't scripting things and presenting the workers as actors. 4. Wrestlers that don't engage the crowd while working. Gives the matches less heat. Match quality now is far too often completely dependent on the crowd. If you have a crowd that isn't into something they won't get into it thanks to workers that know how to engage them. Where less people due to how things are set up. 5. Bad finish. Wrestler distracted by another wrestlers theme music playing. 6. Bad finish. Heel walking away. 7. Not enough cheating in matches by heels. 8. No time limit draws for television. The back and forth win trading doesn't really accomplish anything when done all the time. Can't do a Booker T vs Benoit best of 7 series type deal when every mid card feud is basically this setup. 9. The entire emphasis as fans as part of the show. With how things are lit. Showing the signs on screen. Having wrestlers constantly acknowledge the crowd in promos. Comparing it to a play you again. It would not be a good idea to have actors from a play randomly thank you for being there and telling you that they are there to entertain you during scenes. 10. The show is just far too self aware. In a way it is going through what the Simpsons went through. Simpsons was a great show with social commentary that was a critique and parody of American family life. At some point it became self aware and turned into a parody of itself. WWE presented a different type of show but it too has become a self aware parody of itself. Complete with the backstage booking now presented on screen as the authority. 11. Obnoxious Vince McMahon as a heel announcer via JBL. Complete with Vince McMahon babyface announcer style oversells and phony over the top enthusiasm. 12. Announcers being handed a sheet with things to say. Full of ready made catchphrases, buzz words and points of emphasis that leads to Cole basically forced to just read things off of a list. 13. The shows identity crisis. Sports and entertainment are clashing here in a bad way. It is mostly the entertainment aspects at fault. They can't talk acknowledge what sport it is but still try and present it as a sport. With the panels kayfabe discussing what is happening like an NBA or NFL halftime show. 14. Twitter, hashtags 15. Shaky camera which again causes a sport vs entertainment conflict. It just isn't compatible and scenes with shaky cameras in movie and television require careful editing. Just to keep the audience from getting nauseous. 16. With wrestlers not working the crowd, and the crowd being excessively emphasized the crowd is excessively empowered. You have some crowds that just overreact to everything. Just the overall inconsistent standards of crowds with different regions having different tastes is a complete mess with how empowered fans currently are due to the presentation. Wouldn't be as much of a problem if wrestlers knew how to adjust the way Cena does to the crowd. Most are just stuck to the script. 17, Match quality being far too tied to match length, false finishes and kick outs of big moves. Both in how the match is worked and how the crowd responds. 18. Overall presentation and set of the show has been the same for too long. Everywhere and everything looks the same. 19. Compete lack of authenticity in backstage skits. 20. No drama in ref counts since there aren't enough count outs from someone taking damage on the outside and not getting up. Most count outs are just guys walking out or getting distracted by something backstage. For things that happen in a match to mean something there has to be consequences for those things occasionally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Sleeze Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 Listen to the New Day on Jericho's podcast, they're today's guests. You'll get a real good idea of how dated Vince's views on race are. They actually bring up a lot of talking points I've seen discussed on this board and on PWO/P2B podcasts. That's another thing they really need to fix. Stop color-coding people and stop forcing every minority into 1970's stereotypes. I can't recall the last time a legit main event guy wasn't white. Maybe Bobby Lashley? Roman Reigns is not white. They have cooled him off, but I expect them to ramp him back up in the fall and winter. They have played it smart with him. Keeping him out of the limelight, letting him improve and I know people are taking notice here and I think elsewhere. He needs to up his promo game. Be a badass. No sarcasm. Just straight forward ass kicking. Say what you will do and then do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 Does WWE ever explain any of the nicknames they come up with for their wrestl...sorry, superstars? Bray Wyatt is "the eater of worlds." Why? Did they just think it would look good on a t-shirt? It sounds corny. Why is Randy Orton a Viper? Jake the Snake had a snake. Randy Orton...gets soundbytes on commentary. Sometimes I feel like WWE is one of those crappy Facebook quizzes where you choose two different numbers, one from the left coloumn and one from the right, to get your WWE nickname. "You rolled a four and a seven. Congratulations, you're the Lunatic Fringe!" My overall point: how are we supposed to get attached or care about anyone on the roster? There's not really anything captivating about the roster. No one to relate to. No one to "wow" us. It's either guys that can work or guys that can't. So I think Big Show & Kane suck but like Luke Harper and Rusev... Heel/Face doesn't even factor into the equation anymore. And now WWE, on their own TV, is referring to matches as "match of the year contenders." When the hell did that start happening? I feel like this is the natural progression of telling us that it's not wrestling but entertainment. So we don't get wrestling matches anymore, we get choreographed athletic exhibitions. Which it feels like that is what you're watching too. "Now it's time where we trade moves and kickouts for ten minutes until the crowd chants this is awesome." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 I think when people are fighting for the love of the WWE or impressing the fans it is hard to be attached then when people are fighting for revenge for a championship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotJayTabb Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 That's another thing they really need to fix. Stop color-coding people and stop forcing every minority into 1970's stereotypes. I can't recall the last time a legit main event guy wasn't white. Maybe Bobby Lashley? Hall of Pain-era Mark Henry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 Funny on Smackdown they needed Prime Time Players to have a partner to take on A New Day and who did they come up with? Mark Henry of course. I have no problem with Henry in this, because he is awesome and so are the teams, but it's kind of funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 Funny on Smackdown they needed Prime Time Players to have a partner to take on A New Day and who did they come up with? Mark Henry of course. I have no problem with Henry in this, because he is awesome and so are the teams, but it's kind of funny. To be fair-ish, he's been shown with them backstage offering them advice and congratulating them a few times, so it's not totally out of the blue. Now, that he's in that role in the first place is a different story, but looking at the roster, there aren't many other babyface veterans who could play that role. For active wrestlers, not hurt, I don't think there are any, actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fakeplastictrees Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 The biggest problem for me is the overall presentation. WWE needs a reboot. No more authority figures, all new commentators, new set for Raw & Smackdown, new color scheme and theme for both shows, no more magic camera man, no more show openings with 20 minutes promos, etc. If they do this and set a hierarchy things should (hopefully) work itself out from there. I would honestly be fine with just shit-canning Smackdown, but I know WWE would never do that. The show just seems so pointless & unimportant. I mean, you can literally skip it every single week & not miss a single segment that matters. I agree. I honestly wouldn't care if Smackdown goes away. However, we both know its not- so why not spice it up? If WWE REALLY wants to keep its current setup for Raw (set, director, commentators, etc.) then fine. Let Vince keep Raw in the dark ages. Smackdown on the other hand shouldn't be that way. If Smackdown is just one big exhibition where nothing important really happens- then its time to experiment. Example: as Smackdown is pre-taped I think WWE should use the slow-motion camera used during replays and edit those shots into the live action. It would be matrix-like and help the show standout against Raw. The trick would be not to over-gimmick it and it should only be used on 'once-in-a-lifetime-spots' i.e. Riegns running down the ramp and spearing Big Show. Getting rid of the hard camera and getting a completely new director outside of WWE would be pretty awesome as well. I can't remember the last time I watched a Smackdown from start-to-finish. When did this show become the Raw clip show? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laz Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 Seconding the idea of killing the hard cam. Just watching something as recent as Rumble 2001, the E&C/Dudleys match, it's so fresh to see guys working for the live crowd instead of the TV crowd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russellmania Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 getting rid of the hard camera is a terrible idea. if anything they need to be using the hard camera more. Dunn and company rely way too much on the handheld cameras and quick cuts between them and miss out on a lot of action and catch a ton of spot-calling in the process. The Beast in the East show used way more static hard camera shots and the overall production of that show felt way better than your typical episode of RAW. WWE right now is really overproduced so doing things like eliminating the hard cam and inserting slow-mo into live shots (wtf?) is the exact opposite direction they need to be heading. Also what does eliminating the hard camera have to do with Royal Rumble 2001? Did they go through a time where they didn't have a hard camera and I'm not remembering it or something? You need a hard cam, like it's a basic requirement for shooting wrestling. The problem in your example isn't the camera, it's that the workers don't know how to play to the crowd any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bierschwale Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 I can't remember the last time I watched a Smackdown from start-to-finish. When did this show become the Raw clip show? It's been a true b-show for a while, but it was after the Shield breakup that they went down from at least one genuinely excellent match a week to one every other month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fakeplastictrees Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 getting rid of the hard camera is a terrible idea. if anything they need to be using the hard camera more. Dunn and company rely way too much on the handheld cameras and quick cuts between them and miss out on a lot of action and catch a ton of spot-calling in the process. The Beast in the East show used way more static hard camera shots and the overall production of that show felt way better than your typical episode of RAW. WWE right now is really overproduced so doing things like eliminating the hard cam and inserting slow-mo into live shots (wtf?) is the exact opposite direction they need to be heading. Also what does eliminating the hard camera have to do with Royal Rumble 2001? Did they go through a time where they didn't have a hard camera and I'm not remembering it or something? You need a hard cam, like it's a basic requirement for shooting wrestling. The problem in your example isn't the camera, it's that the workers don't know how to play to the crowd any more. My thinking is this. If there is no hard camera, then there is no camera to 'play to'. Right now the wrestlers are trained to do everything FACING the camera. Its the action trying to catch the camera instead of the camera trying to catch the action. If wrestlers aren't forced to play to just one side- I believe this will help with the audience interaction and make things seem not as hokey (in championship match where his career is on the line, why is John Cena making sure he turns to face the hard cam before hitting the AA instead of just hitting it?). This will also force WWE out of its comfort zone and be FORCED to film differently and make the overall product look different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 I feel like New Japan doesn't do anything special with how they produce their shows but it feels really fresh with the angles they take for entrances and the graphics. I don't think it would take much effort to change the look and feel of the TV. Just a little creativity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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