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Fixing the Diva's Division


Mad Dog

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Sorry for the long thoughts -- HHH's run on the main books can't come soon enough. If I was HHH I'd just make Vince keep watching Bayley v Sasha, over and over, until he gets a fucking clue.

Why? Vince might have final say over the product but I am willing to bet Triple H has a ton of input over tbe main shows and it's...not that good? Stephanie also isn't going to let her husband turn it into 1980s NWA if that is what you're thinking. She is just as big a part of the problem as Vince is. It is easy to do an one hour show weekly with little to no interference from networks. I wouldn't be quick to anoint him the savior of WWE just yet.

 

I'm not saying it would be the quick solve to everything. Just he knows how to put focus (and the right kind of focus seemingly) and great matches on in all 3 divisions. He is proven at making his losers still look strong and important, which has been a huge problem on Raw for ages now with so many dead lowcarders who were once midcard title or even WWE title holding prospects who have developed into nothing, primarily cos of the way they've been booked.

 

It's time, for me, to begin the next era. We need more up-to-date philosophy. This is also an aside, but look how much better New Day have become since they've clearly been told "yeah, do what you like out there guys" and they've prospered like nobody could imagine. Vince wanted them to be faces, and it didn't work. The style and feel of the show just too often shows itself up as being out of touch.

Yeah, just their entire philosophy just keeps getting shown up, and you can't really do that. NXT has built the cult fanbase to such an extent that if it carries on this way, fans aren't gonna wanna even see their fav guy turn up on Raw. Which is ludicrous. The whole developmental as a brand thing was a test run for HHH which you can only say he's passed with flying colours. I have no idea what input he has on Raw, but you don't have to be a long time wrestling fan to spot the key differences of how they present their roster to you compared to Raw

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Sorry for the long thoughts -- HHH's run on the main books can't come soon enough. If I was HHH I'd just make Vince keep watching Bayley v Sasha, over and over, until he gets a fucking clue.

Why? Vince might have final say over the product but I am willing to bet Triple H has a ton of input over tbe main shows and it's...not that good? Stephanie also isn't going to let her husband turn it into 1980s NWA if that is what you're thinking. She is just as big a part of the problem as Vince is. It is easy to do an one hour show weekly with little to no interference from networks. I wouldn't be quick to anoint him the savior of WWE just yet.

He is proven at making his losers still look strong and important

You mean the same guy who had his wife slap around one of their very few bonafide stars (Batista)? Or do you mean when he cut a promo designed to completely undercut John Cena before their match at Wrestlemania? Or the time he did a racist angle with Booker T...then went over after a delayed pin to prove he was right all? Or the fact he rarely if ever shows his ass for anyone as an authority figure when showing ass has been the one thing Vince has always understood to be a necessity? You're right. He's gonna be so awesome!

 

I am not saying he can't be good. I am saying none of the evidence supports that idea and that it is quite the leap of faith IMO.

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Sorry for the long thoughts -- HHH's run on the main books can't come soon enough. If I was HHH I'd just make Vince keep watching Bayley v Sasha, over and over, until he gets a fucking clue.

Why? Vince might have final say over the product but I am willing to bet Triple H has a ton of input over tbe main shows and it's...not that good? Stephanie also isn't going to let her husband turn it into 1980s NWA if that is what you're thinking. She is just as big a part of the problem as Vince is. It is easy to do an one hour show weekly with little to no interference from networks. I wouldn't be quick to anoint him the savior of WWE just yet.

He is proven at making his losers still look strong and important

You mean the same guy who had his wife slap around one of their very few bonafide stars (Batista)? Or do you mean when he cut a promo designed to completely undercut John Cena before their match at Wrestlemania? Or the time he did a racist angle with Booker T...then went over after a delayed pin to prove he was right all? Or the fact he rarely if ever shows his ass for anyone as an authority figure when showing ass has been the one thing Vince has always understood to be a necessity? You're right. He's gonna be so awesome!

 

 

 

I have taken loads of issues with certain HHH wins and antics through his wrestling career. I'm not mad on his tweener authority role at all (which is at the forefront of the show today even though he's only supposed to be the NXT owner) either.

That has little to do with his qualities as a booker, that have shone through. Maybe he had a certain polticized input for the bullshit like the Booker T match, but I don't think he WROTE it.. that's not really relevant to this point in my eyes

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He didn't write it but he sure as hell had a hand in booking it. I doubt the creative team forced these angles on him and he was just the dutiful soldier carrying it out. Again, he refuses to show weakness as the authority figure. Why would Vince book Triple H so differently than he did himself? Answer: he didn't, and this is a Triple H/Stephanie deal. So yes you can judge his booking ability based on the part time wrestler/non wrestling run he's had the last few years alone but I think it is accurate to include his time as a main eventer after 2000 when he clearly gained quite the political power over the show anx his own character. And none of it is good.

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Vince was never a real wrestler though so it makes sense for him to get his arse handed to him in much swifter fashion. HHH is still loads younger, fitter and not technically retired. I can completely concur with you HHH has come off as a snivelling politicing piece of shit at times, but given how he has probably less than 5 matches left in him I don't see how it will negatively affect him as booker going forward. We know he's a student of the game, which is something Vince really doesn't come across as in today's era. And we've seen him showcase some fantastic booking, giving focus and true shine on all 3 of his divisions. The only person on NXT who isn't a jobber who hasn't really been booked well is probably Solomon Crowe. Everybody else he's kept looking fresh and important and that's what WWE needs at a time when Sheamus is the holder of MITB and has crickets for reactions.

The only real issue for me is the balance of what works at Full Sail/a crowd almost entirely made up of smarks and what works on a more broadly spread platform.

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His work with NXT does look good but I am not sure if it was just him doing that. As far as I know, Triple H utilizes the trainers and the agents that are down there in Florida so I think NXT is really a colloboration of different guys and that he ties it together with his vision. He deserves a lot of credit for NXT but he even admitted himself that booking NXT and booking WWE is different and that it is more challenging to do good work for main roster tv. And one of the biggest factors is the fact his wife is the one who will be running WWE and she is the one who prefers to rely on soap operatic sort of vision. She is the one who wanted all those television writers involved. Then there is that rumor that the WWE does not want people who were or are wrestling fans. She wants to eradicate people that has enough understanding to call them out on bullshit booking decisions. She wants people who trusts her and her husband and father's vision with no frame of reference in which to draw from when comparing to today's product.

 

So yeah so many things are in the way of this supposed utopian WWE led by Triple H. But hey I could always be wrong on that but I am going by their history in this assumption.

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At the end of the day, building a sustainable, healthy division around such limited talent isn't possible. With an hour long, under the radar show like NXT, three to four (at best) decent to good workers can get away with pulling of a good match every month or so (the specials). But that shit ain't gonna fly on the unforgiving, fast-paced environment of the main roster. Not until you employ more women who are good at being wrestlers.

 

Can any of the divas cut a promo?

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Can any of the divas cut a promo?

Sasha, BUT we aren't gonna see that on Raw. not just cos its a more fast-paced environment, because of their insistence it's the 'divas' division, Total Divas.

It all points to the same thing, that women have to act a certain way on the show. They promised us a revolution, but apart from clocking up a few more minutes on average they haven't altered their mindset one jot. They still have them doing 'pinkie swears' and generally just acting catty and rubbish.

They just show themselves up all the time now by putting over NXT, where they don't have to act like that, and women on the microphone is all that much better for it. Also the senseless constant putting over of Ronda Rhousey when they have no aggressive, supremely confident character that can hold a candle to her. As someone with little interest in UFC, I just watch her fights JUST to see her enter the ring, with that look like she'll destroy anything put infront of her. It's such a contrast to how WWE portray women, and it seems like that has not gotten across to them....WHY Rhousey is such a success. We certainly don't tune in to see a bit of boob or arsecheek, do we? Fights would be over too fast to catch any anyway :P

 

Personally I expect Raw matches in general to be nothing special, that's kinda why they're on TV, and as like I mentioned earlier, how many classics do we expect Neville for example to have on the main roster? One every now and then, we're never gonna see him in a programme/match comparable to the Zayn one. I think the key in making something, ANYTHING out of this supposed women's revolution is changing the philosophy for the PPV matches. I believe even Nikki Bella, if they rehearse and work on a match worthy of being a title match like Sasha and Bayley have been able to do, we'll get somewhere. If it stays as it is, we won't.

We also need simplicity/relatability in storylines and variety in talent, which they've decided to do the opposite of, soooo...

 

 

I don't think its any of the talent's fault that they're not that over, when the crowd were so open and accepting for their debuts. Except Paige, another key element of this working is stop handing a mic to Paige

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As someone with little interest in UFC, I just watch her fights JUST to see her enter the ring, with that look like she'll destroy anything put infront of her. It's such a contrast to how WWE portray women, and it seems like that has not gotten across to them....WHY Rhousey is such a success. We certainly don't tune in to see a bit of boob or arsecheek, do we? Fights would be over too fast to catch any anyway :P

 

 

 

I think this is pretty spot-on. At least in my own personal experience. I hang with a lot of people who are super into UFC and I also enjoy it, and the appeal of Ronda, at least to us, hasn't been "omg she's hot" - it's the fact she's a killing machine. Being a woman has little to do with it, she's just great at her job. Sasha is the closest WWE has to that right now, IMO.

 

I think a growth in women's wrestling is inevitable over the next few years because of the fact there are more and more great women athletes coming up, women's sports in general are finally rising in popularity, and a rising feminist outlook among younger folks. I think this #DIVASREVOLUTION stuff is not working out great, but there are going to be growing pains. A wholly realized, completely different presentation of women in WWE wasn't going to arise out of thin air in one Raw segment.

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Part of the problem is that the general audience wasn't pushing for longer or even better Diva matches. Taking it slowly would be the best option, but fans online and offline are impatient these days and I don't blame the company for not wanting to take the time to re-train the audience on an unproven concept.

Also, I love the downfall of Bri Bella. Last year's Summerslam had her wrestling the company's top heel in a singles match and roughly a year later is the designated jobber for her stable that includes Alicia Fox.

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They bombed going long last week, so what did you expect this week?

Better booking so that they can get over, instead of being put in shitty situations.

 

 

That's a problem for everyone on the main roster. Even the one's who are over are actually over in ways that don't really fit their roles the way they should: New Day aren't stooging heels, Sasha Banks isn't "The Boss", John Cena isn't the ultimate babyface.

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That Alexa Bliss vs Blue Pants match on NXT was pretty bad. Blue Pants theme is one of the oddest I've ever heard, no idea what it's about. She doesn't seem to be any good though.

 

And you got Emma talking about the "Diva Revolution" over there too now. Yikes.

 

But I guess that ship has sailed anyway at this point, with the stupid beat the clock match on RAW.

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If there is a sliver lining for the women this week the Paige/Becky vs Sasha/Naomi tag from Main Event was good. I think Naomi has actually improved since the start of this angle and seem to really enjoy working heel.

 

On Smackdown, they teased Charlotte trying to get her title shot before Nikki breaks the record. I wonder if they try and build a Raw around it which would be an all or nothing move for this angle.

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That Alexa Bliss vs Blue Pants match on NXT was pretty bad. Blue Pants theme is one of the oddest I've ever heard, no idea what it's about. She doesn't seem to be any good though.

 

 

Her theme is Big Cass singing the theme tune to The Price Is Right. Basically, she turned up as a jobber that Cass and Enzo had chosen to put over Carmella, but got ridiculously over, in part because Cass only referred to her as Blue Pants, instead of giving her a name. A few weeks later, they brought her back (where she beat Carmella due to being distracted by Enzo) and Cass sang the song for her intro to play upon her bizarre cult popularity. The fact they used this recording to be her regular theme song is odd, but hilarious.

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