NXT talk

[stro]

Hero himself said he had a health issue a few months back that contributed to his weight gain and his difficulty losing it and keeping it off in WWE. I want to say it was thyroid related, but don't quote me on that. I'm not just speculating that him being overweight is bad for his health here. Fat Chris Hero is dope. He's far more interesting now than he's been over the past 15 years or so. Saying he's fat isn't' a judgment on him. People can discuss looks and appearances that may be unflattering without judging or it being automatically negative.

 

On the other hand, KO has that gut because he eats terribly and doesn't like to work out. It hasn't impacted his career, so why change it now?

[WingedEagle]

Does fat mean out of shape? Like is Hero's weight affected his health?

 

There is a HUGE myth in the medical profession about weight. In fact the system they use has Sidney Crosby as overweight, so it's bullshit.

 

Do we know if Hero is at risk of diabetes or high cholesterol? He can certainly do all the athletic things he needs to do, so why even talk about his body?

 

Set weight theory is something that may be true, studies are still trying to figure it out, but if it is, that shit might be out of his control and out of most people's.

 

This bullshit about aesthetic appearance and weight having this huge effect on health is really crazy.

 

A lot of this crap is the medical/food industry pushing diets and unrealistic ideals to make them more money. Talking about fat and weight is something that is causing so much harm.

 

My wife has an eating disorder. Since she's been open about it, she has realized that just about every women she meets has struggled with that. Isn't that a FUCKED up thing? Shouldn't we maybe, as a society, get away from making people feel they need to starve themselves or binge to be healthy?

 

I hope Owens's & Hero's health aren't negatively impacted by their weight or body, but that's not really our concern, although it should be a priority for them. But they have chosen to work in a business very much driven by how we view their performance. They're not athletes where all that matters are results. How they do what they do and how they look while doing it is literally their job. Its not unreasonable to think that their appearance, and how it may impact their performance, if it does, can contribute to the quality of their matches.

 

For example, its possible that if Owens were in better shape and more mobile he'd be able to take more and better bumps. His offense might look a bit more explosive if he were quicker. If he had better cardio. Or it might not. But let's not pretend that it can't impact what we see in the ring. Just because you convince yourself that its irrelevant doesn't mean there aren't very legitimate reasons why the physical condition a wrestler keeps himself in can't positively or negatively impact what they do in the ring.

[Grimmas]

Why equate less weight with better health? That's not a fact AT ALL.

 

In fact, a lot of research suggests that each person has a set point where they are at optimal health. A six pack or super skinny is not automatically healthier than someone with a gut.

 

That's a bullshit narrative that has been pushed by the media, fashion, magazines, and health food companies.

[WingedEagle]

Why equate less weight with better health? That's not a fact AT ALL.

 

In fact, a lot of research suggests that each person has a set point where they are at optimal health. A six pack or super skinny is not automatically healthier than someone with a gut.

 

That's a bullshit narrative that has been pushed by the media, fashion, magazines, and health food companies.

 

I wish all wrestlers the best health, but they're neither friend nor family to me. Why is their health something I'm thinking much about at all beyond how it impacts the shows I'm watching?

[stro]

We're not equating weight to health. We're just talking about what they look like because they're doing something where look is about 80% or more of any given persona. In the same way that people would talk about Jonah Hill being cast in a role that would traditionally be for an Arnold/Sly/Rock type.

[Grimmas]

 

Why equate less weight with better health? That's not a fact AT ALL.

 

In fact, a lot of research suggests that each person has a set point where they are at optimal health. A six pack or super skinny is not automatically healthier than someone with a gut.

 

That's a bullshit narrative that has been pushed by the media, fashion, magazines, and health food companies.

 

I wish all wrestlers the best health, but they're neither friend nor family to me. Why is their health something I'm thinking much about at all beyond how it impacts the shows I'm watching?

 

Saying this wrestler is fat is not something in a bubble. There are real life consequences.

 

You have no idea how many people you love or are friends with that struggle with eating issues. I guarantee a LOT do, but just hide it.

 

If someone who is a great athlete is called fat, how does a normal person on the street take that information in?

[Grimmas]

We're not equating weight to health. We're just talking about what they look like because they're doing something where look is about 80% or more of any given persona. In the same way that people would talk about Jonah Hill being cast in a role that would traditionally be for an Arnold/Sly/Rock type.

 

This is a major issue. This is fucking people up all over. Just because it's done, doesn't make it right.

[WingedEagle]

 

 

Why equate less weight with better health? That's not a fact AT ALL.

 

In fact, a lot of research suggests that each person has a set point where they are at optimal health. A six pack or super skinny is not automatically healthier than someone with a gut.

 

That's a bullshit narrative that has been pushed by the media, fashion, magazines, and health food companies.

 

I wish all wrestlers the best health, but they're neither friend nor family to me. Why is their health something I'm thinking much about at all beyond how it impacts the shows I'm watching?

 

Saying this wrestler is fat is not something in a bubble. There are real life consequences.

 

You have no idea how many people you love or are friends with that struggle with eating issues. I guarantee a LOT do, but just hide it.

 

If someone who is a great athlete is called fat, how does a normal person on the street take that information in?

 

 

So we should say all wrestlers are in great shape, beautiful because of what's inside and never acknowledge or discuss appearances in a visual performance art because doing so may compound personal issues that people in the audience are facing? That's a heavy burden.

[stro]

It's not a major issue to acknowledge that someone is overweight when they're overweight. No one here is even saying Hero or KO need to lose weight. Whoever you're arguing with isn't in this thread. I feel like you're taking any discussion of anyone's appearance that isn't perfect and great as automatic shaming. Like, are we not allowed to talk about Dick The Bruiser's ugly mug, or Abby's gig marks, or Luna's voice, or Dusty's birth mark because someone somewhere might get their feelings hurt over it?

[Grimmas]

 

 

 

Why equate less weight with better health? That's not a fact AT ALL.

 

In fact, a lot of research suggests that each person has a set point where they are at optimal health. A six pack or super skinny is not automatically healthier than someone with a gut.

 

That's a bullshit narrative that has been pushed by the media, fashion, magazines, and health food companies.

 

I wish all wrestlers the best health, but they're neither friend nor family to me. Why is their health something I'm thinking much about at all beyond how it impacts the shows I'm watching?

 

Saying this wrestler is fat is not something in a bubble. There are real life consequences.

 

You have no idea how many people you love or are friends with that struggle with eating issues. I guarantee a LOT do, but just hide it.

 

If someone who is a great athlete is called fat, how does a normal person on the street take that information in?

 

 

So we should say all wrestlers are in great shape, beautiful because of what's inside and never acknowledge or discuss appearances in a visual performance art because doing so may compound personal issues that people in the audience are facing? That's a heavy burden.

 

Never said that.

 

I discuss wrestlers all the time, wtf do we need to talk about their shape at all? Maybe if they are supposed to be playing a strong power wrestler and are not strong and powerful, sure? When does that happen though?

By the way, you have no idea if someone is in great shape by looking at them.

 

My wife lost a LOT of weight and got all this praise, yet she was unhealthy as fuck thanks to binge and restricting food. She was healthier with 20 more pounds on her.

 

You don't know if somebody is in great shape based on looks, you just don't.

[Grimmas]

It's not a major issue to acknowledge that someone is overweight when they're overweight. No one here is even saying Hero or KO need to lose weight. Whoever you're arguing with isn't in this thread.

Fine all athletes are overweight. Look at the BMI.

 

Sidney Crosby is fucking obese, based on the scale doctors use.

Lets go with that?

 

What the fuck does overweight mean? Do you have any idea what weight a certain person is most healthy at? You really don't, so it's a bullshit thing to talk about.

[stro]

The fuck overweight means when you have a giant jiggly gut like KO or Chris Hero. Jesus Christ, we're not talking about your wife. We're talking about two men you god damn know are overweight and fat. This is getting bizarre. Not a damn person has mentioned BMI. We're talking about pretend fighters in their underwear who have significant excess body fat that you can visibly see bouncing and jiggling around as they perform. You know exactly people mean when they say KO or Chris Hero are fat.

 

It's okay to say Mojo could tighten up and drop some body fat when he was at the PC 7 days a week with world class trainers and nutritionists. And instead, he bulked and put a shirt on. And that's okay, too. But it isn't a problem to talk about it, obviously his employers did, and they came to a conclusion that worked for both.

[Grimmas]

The fuck overweight means when you have a giant jiggly gut like KO or Chris Hero. Jesus Christ, we're not talking about your wife. We're talking about two men you god damn know are overweight and fat. This is getting bizarre. Not a damn person has mentioned BMI. We're talking about pretend fighters in their underwear who have significant excess body fat that you can visibly see bouncing and jiggling around as they perform. You know exactly people mean when they say KO or Chris Hero are fat.

 

Sorry if this offends you so much, but this is a major issue with our society, the food issues, and the medical profession.

 

Do these guys need a six pack or a flat stomach? Is that even possible with them? Would that make them healthier? These are questions we do not know the answer to.

 

Why call them fat? What is the point?

 

Let's all post pictures of ourselves and call 99% fat by your standards, will that help anything?

 

They are great or bad pro wrestlers based on their skills, not on their bellies. How is that even relevant to anything? Does it offend you to see their stomachs?

[WingedEagle]

 

 

 

 

Why equate less weight with better health? That's not a fact AT ALL.

 

In fact, a lot of research suggests that each person has a set point where they are at optimal health. A six pack or super skinny is not automatically healthier than someone with a gut.

 

That's a bullshit narrative that has been pushed by the media, fashion, magazines, and health food companies.

 

I wish all wrestlers the best health, but they're neither friend nor family to me. Why is their health something I'm thinking much about at all beyond how it impacts the shows I'm watching?

 

Saying this wrestler is fat is not something in a bubble. There are real life consequences.

 

You have no idea how many people you love or are friends with that struggle with eating issues. I guarantee a LOT do, but just hide it.

 

If someone who is a great athlete is called fat, how does a normal person on the street take that information in?

 

 

So we should say all wrestlers are in great shape, beautiful because of what's inside and never acknowledge or discuss appearances in a visual performance art because doing so may compound personal issues that people in the audience are facing? That's a heavy burden.

 

Never said that.

 

I discuss wrestlers all the time, wtf do we need to talk about their shape at all? Maybe if they are supposed to be playing a strong power wrestler and are not strong and powerful, sure? When does that happen though?

By the way, you have no idea if someone is in great shape by looking at them.

 

My wife lost a LOT of weight and got all this praise, yet she was unhealthy as fuck thanks to binge and restricting food. She was healthier with 20 more pounds on her.

 

You don't know if somebody is in great shape based on looks, you just don't.

 

 

I wish your wife the best. I just don't care what she weighs. Similarly, I don't care what Kevin Owens weighs but for his and his family's sake hope he keeps it at a healthy number. However, if his weight rises or falls to a point where he is forced to or chooses to wear ring gear that looks low rent and amateurish, that's going to impact how I view what he does between the ropes. If his weight impacts or limits his ability to do certain things between said ropes, than I might enjoy his matches more or less.

 

Ryota Hama has figured out how to work very entertaining professional wrestling matches at a weight that most fans probably think limits just what he can do in the ring. I don't know if Hama minus 50 or 80 pounds would be better, but it'd certainly be different. I just fail to see how that's remotely controversial or offensive. If he was built like Kamitani or Miyahara he'd be very different and we'd see his matches quite differently. And that might also be the case if Kevin Owens or Chris Hero dropped 30 pounds. Its just silly to assume that all workers would be the same regardless of their body types, weights, sizes, etc.

 

Who cares about Sidney Crosby's BMI other than the Penguins' front office? If eating unhealthy and weighing an unhealthy weight helped them win a cup, I'm sure they'd encourage it. Because that's a completely different business than professional wrestling.

[stro]

Jesus Christ man. I get this is a personal issue for you. We're just talking about dudes fake fighting in their underwear. No one has said KO and Chris Hero need to have abs. Literally no one in this discussion has even said they need to drop weight. They are what they are and are great performers regardless of their weight. But to rag and rage on people for having the temerity to calmly discuss what they look like is ridiculous. It's okay to talk about Rick Rude's abs, and it's even okay to talk about how huge and imposing Vader was, but saying the dude carrying the top title on the top show in the industry has a big beer belly is somehow off limits and super offensive to...fans in the crowd?

 

Your wife's struggles with weight and eating disorders has nothing to do with what Kevin Owens looks like.

[WingedEagle]

Yeah, pretty clear this has gone from a wrestling discussion to something much more personal. Not appropriate or fruitful to engage there.

[stro]

To change the subject back to NXT: Boy is it a shitshow outside of the long established guys (and Asuka) plus DIY/Revival. It might actually be for the best to have all of those called up all at once and force NXT to have to actually develop talent again.

[Jmare007]

 

The fuck overweight means when you have a giant jiggly gut like KO or Chris Hero. Jesus Christ, we're not talking about your wife. We're talking about two men you god damn know are overweight and fat. This is getting bizarre. Not a damn person has mentioned BMI. We're talking about pretend fighters in their underwear who have significant excess body fat that you can visibly see bouncing and jiggling around as they perform. You know exactly people mean when they say KO or Chris Hero are fat.

 

Sorry if this offends you so much, but this is a major issue with our society, the food issues, and the medical profession.

 

Do these guys need a six pack or a flat stomach? Is that even possible with them? Would that make them healthier? These are questions we do not know the answer to.

 

Why call them fat? What is the point?

 

Let's all post pictures of ourselves and call 99% fat by your standards, will that help anything?

 

They are great or bad pro wrestlers based on their skills, not on their bellies. How is that even relevant to anything? Does it offend you to see their stomachs?

 

 

The hell? During the GWE you were calling some wrestlers fat all the time and saying how awesome they are, just like stro has called 2016 Chris Hero fat and awesome. You are trying to make this a way bigger discussion than what it is and I have no clue why.

 

 

 

To change the subject back to NXT: Boy is it a shitshow outside of the long established guys (and Asuka) plus DIY/Revival. It might actually be for the best to have all of those called up all at once and force NXT to have to actually develop talent again.

 

I wonder if that problem is because of the talent (there's little room for less known wrestlers) or because Ryan Ward left for SD.

[stro]

Ward going to SD, Dusty dying, and the start of the completely useless Balor reign all occurred within a month or two of each other, and NXT was never the same. Around that same time is when they stopped even bothering with giving the established guys gimmicks or stories beyond this guy was in ROH/NJPW/PWG/TNA.

[Grimmas]

 

 

Learned a lot since then.

[cpst]

Ward going to SD, Dusty dying, and the start of the completely useless Balor reign all occurred within a month or two of each other, and NXT was never the same. Around that same time is when they stopped even bothering with giving the established guys gimmicks or stories beyond this guy was in ROH/NJPW/PWG/TNA.

Ryan Ward was head writer of NXT longer than that. He only went over to Smackdown in March.

 

I think calling up all of the women with a name besides Asuka and the Balor title reign started the decline. Lots of things after that didn't help either. Balor's reign was followed up by Joe, his partner-in crime for much of his boring reign. American Alpha got called up to Smackdown and left the tag-team division as two teams plus some other guys.

 

I'm curious what they're going to do going forward if neither Nakamura nor Asuka get called up. Is the men's singles division just going to be ex-TNA guys losing to Nakamura? They have the women's tournament coming up, which will hopefully build up some of these new women coming in and maybe lead to another signing or two. It's also unclear whether Io Shirai or Kairi Hojo will actually end up joining.

[stro]

NXT went to shit to me immediately following Brooklyn. TV stopped being a priority in favor of touring and self hype for how hot of a brand it was. It's felt like the past year and a half of NXT has been burned out crowds, jobber matches, and telling everyone how much of a phenomenon NXT is.

[sek69]

The brand split didn't help either. They had to fill rosters so now we have American Alpha on SD as complete nothingburgers every week instead of being stars on NXT. They had to fill 2 women's divisions so now we get too green for TV women's matches on NXT.

[cpst]

NXT went to shit to me immediately following Brooklyn. TV stopped being a priority in favor of touring and self hype for how hot of a brand it was. It's felt like the past year and a half of NXT has been burned out crowds, jobber matches, and telling everyone how much of a phenomenon NXT is.

That's a fair assessment. I still think Takeover London ended up being a pretty good show (at least to watch as it happened), partially because of the unique crowd.

[Coffey]

NXT went to shit to me immediately following Brooklyn. TV stopped being a priority in favor of touring and self hype for how hot of a brand it was. It's felt like the past year and a half of NXT has been burned out crowds, jobber matches, and telling everyone how much of a phenomenon NXT is.

 

The weekly show is basically unwatchable at this point. It feels like nothing happens. You can skip an entire month, even avoiding reading the summary of the spoilers and you're caught up in like five minutes on the Takeover preshow. It's a bunch of squashes and jobbers and then like a 2-minute angle for each hour. NXT used to be my favorite WWE show & it was a big reason to have the WWE Network. Now it feels like it's lower than WCW Worldwide. There's still people on NXT that I care about, like Asuka, Nakamura & The Revival but for the most part, it's just skippable.