"Political Hit"

[C.S.]

Could it have been Shawn Michaels that Dave was talking about? While HBK's involvement is common knowledge now, for years he denied being in the know.

[jushin muta liger]

My thinking is that either Kevin Dunn or the head of the production at the time knew too thus other people in production had to know. They continued rolling the cameras after the screwjob happened and Bret destroying everything included him writing WCW in the air with his finger. Somebody made the call to the camera guys to keep rolling on it.

[The Chief]

Wasn't Patterson obviously involved? I thought that was common knowledge, we see him helping Bret plan out the match in Wrestling With Shadows.

 

 

Actually, and I forgot where I heard this, I'm pretty sure Patterson was one of the inner circle who was kept in the dark about this. From what I remember, he was really close with Bret and wouldn't have stood for it.

[SteveJRogers]

Production had to have known to have Michaels's music ready.

 

To be fair, you'd think something like that would have been ready regardless. How long does it take to get the right music ready to play when its just the music? And I doubt while the match is going on they have everything "packed up" so to speak except for Bret's/Hart Foundation music, or whatever would play out after the determined schmoz finish.

[SteveJRogers]

Could it have been Shawn Michaels that Dave was talking about? While HBK's involvement is common knowledge now, for years he denied being in the know.

 

That would make sense, also if you want to say Dave grew to respect Shawn's personal growth since bottoming out in 2000-2001.

[SteveJRogers]

Going back to the production truck, you'd think they'd have to be ready for on-the-fly booking as well. Granted one would think PPV results are locked down with no chance of change, but hey, you never know, what if Bret decided just before the match "fuck it, I'll drop the belt to Shawn" or if the finish was decided in the ring (see Shawn's SummerSlam meltdown against Vader). Production probably should have been ready to play both songs as the PPV was ending.

[Jingus]

To be fair, you'd think something like that would have been ready regardless. How long does it take to get the right music ready to play when its just the music? And I doubt while the match is going on they have everything "packed up" so to speak except for Bret's/Hart Foundation music, or whatever would play out after the determined schmoz finish.

Going back to the production truck, you'd think they'd have to be ready for on-the-fly booking as well. Granted one would think PPV results are locked down with no chance of change, but hey, you never know, what if Bret decided just before the match "fuck it, I'll drop the belt to Shawn" or if the finish was decided in the ring (see Shawn's SummerSlam meltdown against Vader). Production probably should have been ready to play both songs as the PPV was ending.

Yeah, those were my points. They've already got the music ready of whomever might win the match. Remember, even on those rare occasions where something got horribly botched and the match had to go home early or the wrong finish happened, they still had the music ready to go anyway.

 

Also, look at every one of the WWE scripts which have been leaked over the years: entrance music is always in the script, but the match results are never included. The company is really paranoid about spoilers like that, they never tell the production crew who's going over before it happens. I'm sure they have the music ready for all possible winners in every match, and Dunn just gives the order to play whichever track at the appropriate time.

[C.S.]

Yeah, those were my points. They've already got the music ready of whomever might win the match. Remember, even on those rare occasions where something got horribly botched and the match had to go home early or the wrong finish happened, they still had the music ready to go anyway.

 

Also, look at every one of the WWE scripts which have been leaked over the years: entrance music is always in the script, but the match results are never included. The company is really paranoid about spoilers like that, they never tell the production crew who's going over before it happens. I'm sure they have the music ready for all possible winners in every match, and Dunn just gives the order to play whichever track at the appropriate time.

 

This reminds of the "21-1" TitanTron debate when some people still thought Undertaker's Mania lost to Brock Lesnar was an audible called because of Taker's concussion. I imagine the WWE is pretty prepared to do these sort of things on the fly if necessary.

 

Look how quickly they churn out t-shirts now. Y2AJ shirts were made right away for a team that lasted, what, two weeks?

[Slasher]

 

 

Dave said just a few years ago (before Bret returned to WWE) that there was still one person who had a major role who swore him to secrecy on it until after he died.

makes me think Undertaker

The same Undertaker who forced Vince to apologize to Bret after the match? No.

 

Shawn Michaels? Like Triple H, Dave is comfortable reporting negative stuff about him in the past so I wouldn't think it's him. Everyone knew Shawn was involved so what more was there for Dave to protect? People wouldn't be going "Well I thought Shawn was just the guy they screwed Bret witb but now he admitted to be part of the planning proceas, I can't look at HBK the same way anymore!" His involvement was obvious and it really wouldn't have mattered the level of his involvement. I would think Dave knows that too so there was nothing to protect HBK from people's perception of him.

 

Jim Cornette's dwindling booking role wouldn't have mattered either. He was a guy Vince understands to be a smart man and his input was probably solicited in the first place. All I am suggesting if it was him that he came up with the way to do it, his backstage stroke doesn't have to play a part in it.

 

Why would JR work the fans into thinking he hated the IWC? It makes no sense whatsoever. He was the play by play announcer who was the babyface anchor of their announcing team. What purpose does a babyface announcer ripping a portion of their fanbase serve? There is a thread here that focuses on him being a cranky grouchy guy. Pretty sure his deal is authentic and not a work.

 

But anyways I apologize for inadvertently turning this into another Montreal thread. All I meant is that there are guys Dave would protect by not outing them for their involvement in a major negative situations. And maybe the source who told Dave about the Shane thing is another one of those guys Dave protects from being found out. He knows part of the game is cultivating sources that would trust Dave to not fuck them over, so they could continue being valuable assets for Dave when he needs it.

[Matt D]

They should turn Ziggler heel on Reigns tonight and have him be the first opponent for champion Reigns post-Mania. That'd do the trick.

[Strummer]

I was thinking the same thing. Makes sense so I doubt it

[Bix]

IIRC, the person Dave was sworn to secrecy on was specifically who came up with the Sharpshooter spot.

 

As for the music I think the theory was that Michaels' music started playing within a few seconds. I thought it was a DQ for the ref bump until it became clear in a few moments.

[MikeCampbell]

Wasn't Patterson obviously involved? I thought that was common knowledge, we see him helping Bret plan out the match in Wrestling With Shadows.

 

I don't see Vince involving anyone he didn't absolutely HAVE to; he's notorious for keeping secrets as close to the chest as he possibly can:

-Shawn and Earl had to be involved to make the finish work.

-Patterson had to be involved in order to suggest the sharpshooter spot to Bret.

-Brisco was involved to help Shawn plan how to do it and show him some shooter moves if the whole thing got ugly.

-HHH was involved because he was the one who first openly suggested the idea of the screwjob.

 

Vince Russo claimed it was all his idea, in his KC Timeline. It took nearly twenty years for the truth to come out!

 

(I hope y'all are picking up the sarcasm, I'm laying it on pretty thick here!)

[kjh]

IIRC, the person Dave was sworn to secrecy on was specifically who came up with the Sharpshooter spot.

 

Worth noting that the day before the Montreal Screwjob, according to Meltzer's reporting at the time: "At about the same time the WWF braintrust was in Montreal one day early. Vince McMahon held a meeting at the hotel with Jim Ross, Jim Cornette, Pat Patterson and Michaels. Reports are that at least two of the aforementioned names looked extremely uncomfortable leaving the meeting."

 

It's hard to imagine that those in the meeting weren't aware of what was to transpire the next day and that whomever came up with the Sharpshooter spot was at that meeting.

[Al]

How do you go about reading the body language and facial expressions of someone with Bell's Palsy?

[Fando]

Interesting response from Dave near the end of WOR on whether there was a political reason for NXT being left out of promotion for Mania shows on the network last night, just breaking down that either the company feels it's not marketable, not as important as the other shows or "for whatever internal reason." But he sounded actually frustrated about it when it was brought up.

 

Where is Dylan's article?

[Slasher]

They would most likely have had a guy stand by in the production truck who is either linked up to Vince or whoever was running the gorilla position that night that would tell the production guys to cue in HBK's music but I don't think it was a situation that required much of advance knowledge of what would happen. They probably had both Bret's and Shawn's music ready to go either way. Someone's music was gonna play no matter what happened.

[Fando]

That would be Prichard

[Fando]

HHH aligning with the Dudleys to jump Roman. In New York.

[Slasher]

Me in the Mania thread:

 

I don't know where to put this comment but after watching a few segments of the build for Reigns vs Triple H, the go home show has to have Triple H extend Reigns the same courtesy he did Daniel Bryan. He has to offer himself up on the altar again for slaughter if they want to get Reigns going. I don't know if it is really sticking but they have to keep it going like Reigns finally snapped and he is a man on a mission. They can't have Triple H standing tall ever again for this.

Well either they are the stupidest bunch of idiots running around back there, the bookers, or perhaps there is really a hit on the guy. But why? Why put him in the main event at Wrestlemania the second year in a row with designs of failing him? That crowd booed Reigns. Partly because they don't like him but they never had a chance with them reminding them why Triple H is so "great" and even as a devil, he's a guy we can trust to be booked like a badass and goddamn it we love winners like that especially against posers like Reigns. I don't think having the Dudleys involved was something that put a nail in the coffin but having Triple H running around mostly dominating Reigns certainly was. Wow they had Reigns leap out. Big deal. He's cooked.

[...TG]

One of these guys is an evil political genius, and the other is Henry Kissinger: https://twitter.com/TripleH/status/715004128880099328.

 

 

 

[benj]

After meeting with Henry Kissinger, HHH has decided on his entrance gear for Sunday.

 

 

 

[Slasher]

In JerryWorld? He'll be General Custer chasing after the redskin Roman Reigns.