JAC Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 Poor Manami Toyota. I didn't submit a ballot because I never got around to the extra viewing I hoped to, let alone contributing to the discussion. As such, I felt like I hadn't done enough to eliminate my blind spots to be able to justify submitting a ballot. Luchadors, WOS guys and 1980s territorial workers probably benefited from this (being my blind spots). Joshi workers definitely suffered. Toyota would have been no worse than Top 15 for me. I'm already planning for 2026 and planning a deep dive into joshi before then. Glad to see that there are still some good women out there waiting to show up on the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo Slice Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 Nakamura is gonna finish above Tanahashi. I'll take that. TAJIRI is gonna finish above Tanahashi, which fills my heart with joy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRGoldman Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 How many more people are left that just have a single number one vote? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 Nakamura is gonna finish above Tanahashi. I'll take that. TAJIRI is gonna finish above Tanahashi, which fills my heart with joy. Hum… Nakamura has dropped already… sorry... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 Onita was the last person I thought I'd be the high voter on (I had him 18th), and I'm happy he made the top 100, but I really wish now that I had pushed for him a bit harder in his thread. I think some people tend to dismiss the deathmatch style he popularized as "garbage" or by leaning on statements like not all styles are created equal, while ignoring the sheer charisma and importance Onita was able to bring to his matches within that style. They also made sense from a narrative standpoint and escalated in a meaningful, believable way. I think many voters tend to dismiss him because of what they think he spawned and not the work he actually did, which I think stands up as well as anything else from that time frame. The funny thing about Onita is that pretty much all the guys coming after him and did garbage stuff totally ignored why Onita was so great at it and why he made a shitload of money : milking and selling. That's why watching the very early Onita FMW matches against martial artists is so revealing of what Onita is all about, because he basically worked the same way then : getting his ass beat, selling like a motherfucker, milking every comebacks like crazy. And then of course you got all the Onita mystic with the post-match crying and promo, which is insane even if you don't understand the language. But really, Onita wasn't about taking insane bump and bleeding like a stuck pig. Well, he was, but that's just a part of it. The main thing is that he milked and sold like a mofo. That's why he made shitload of money while all the garbage idiots (Abyss, looking at you) coming after just destroyed their body for basically nothing because all they got out of Onita was : taking bumps in barbwires. That was just a spectacular choice. Onita was like Takada, a master of epic spectacle. Excellent post. That really summarizes what was great about Onita, better than I ever could. I had Onita as my #20, and El-P's post does a great job of explaining why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luchaundead Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 Where's Dylan to mention 2 big time Joshis on the list in a row? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 I kind of like Tanahashi as a poor man's Taichi in CMLL when it comes to punchable Japanese foreign rudos. Taichi just owns the punchability a little more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 There he is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 I actually like Toyota's ranking this time around better. She was my #54. I'm glad the other girls are gonna do better. Can we drop Hogan now though ? This is getting absolutely ridiculous now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luchaundead Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 I kind of like Tanahashi as a poor man's Taichi in CMLL when it comes to punchable Japanese foreign rudos. Taichi just owns the punchability a little more. I earnestly like Taichi and not even just in a punchable way he's been a great dick jr ace in NOAH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 I love Jimmy Redman's comment about Taker. While that last Kane feud may not have been anywhere near his best in-ring work, I think it was the best character work of his career. Kane's too for that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo Slice Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 Ah, fuck. Forgot Nak dropped already. Buzzkill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 Was this meant to be a kayfabed list? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 This has been an awesome day in terms of eliminating wrestlers I didn't want to see go any higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bierschwale Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 I like Tana, but don't think that he's top 100 at all, even though I knew he'd make it. So that's nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo Slice Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 BONG! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 I guess a bunch of self-conscious Mania epics plus a bunch of truly awful matches were enough to boost Taker into the top 100. Blah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRGoldman Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 Last night I had the thought that while the influx of voters may have created some results that aren't necessarily representative of the views of many at PWO (Angle's high ranking, for instance), it may end up being sort of a blessing. This list will get sent around, and if it was just all of our favorites, it might get dismissed out of hand. Now that it has some great showings by both the widely accepted "greatest ever" and by some PWO favorites, it might lead to people genuinely looking in to wrestler's they might not have before. Like, I think someone may see this list and check out Virus, or Sangre Chicana, because they are surrounded in ranking by more popular, mainstream choices. That's a potentially really cool happy accident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Face Chicken Wing Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 When I started seriously thinking about my rankings, I thought there was no way Undertaker would not make my top 100. By the time I was finished, there was no possible way I could have squeezed him on my list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 I guess a bunch of self-conscious Mania epics plus a bunch of truly awful matches were enough to boost Taker into the top 100. Blah. Happy to be a minority voice with you here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pol Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 I don't necessarily have issues with the overall placement of Zayn and Cesaro, but I will say I think it speaks to the "WWE effect" that they are both slightly higher than Hero, who I think was better earlier, subsequently better for longer, and has had just as many good matches on the indies as Zayn and Cesaro have had in WWE in the past few years. There's also some level of availability of footage too, with Cesaro especially, over Hero. It's a hell of a lot easier for me to watch 200 Cesaro matches than 200 Hero matches. Totally agree. From what I have watched of Hero I would still rank Cesaro a good bit higher. But I will admit that I'm only at 6-7 Hero matches, som I'm in no way dismissing his case. He might well be as good as some here claim. Matt, footage availability is a valid point. I think it's interesting in this case, as the harder to find footage for Hero is what makes his case, while that same footage is a probably a detriment to Cesaro's, as his ROH/CZW runs are largely underwhelming and he is completely overshadowed by Hero in the KoW tag team stuff. It's interesting to me that Cesaro's work in NXT/WWE is far superior to his indy work, but Hero's NXT work wasn't nearly as good as his indy work (save for the Regal stuff). Is it harder to have good matches under road agents, time limits, creative restraints? Or is it just not applicable here at all? If that's true of Hero (and it may well be), I think he'd be one of the few. IMO the vast majority of workers perform better under creative restraints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 I guess a bunch of self-conscious Mania epics plus a bunch of truly awful matches were enough to boost Taker into the top 100. Blah. Happy to be a minority voice with you here. You're not really a minority voice if he makes less than half of the ballots. I don't know too many people who had him in thier lists. I know of a couple. An interesting comparison would be Undertaker vs. Inoki. A shitload of matches.... a shitload of main event protection.... a handful of classics and a ton of crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bestintheworld3589 Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 Well it took a while, but I'm finally a highest vote for someone as I had The Undertaker at number 14. Looking at my list I could see 3 more names I could potentially be the highest vote for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 I guess a bunch of self-conscious Mania epics plus a bunch of truly awful matches were enough to boost Taker into the top 100. Blah. Happy to be a minority voice with you here. You're not really a minority voice if he makes less than half of the ballots. I don't know too many people who had him in thier lists. I know of a couple. An interesting comparison would be Undertaker vs. Inoki. A shitload of matches.... a shitload of main event protection.... a handful of classics and a ton of crap. Could have fooled me after the amount of crap I got for pointing out the mountains of absolute shit he's produced since 1991. I think Taker making the list is a shame, and I think his case is poor if you seriously factor in consistency. Thinking about it, I don't really know why I was getting shit from the brothers Hales about it, the only thing consistent about him is that he consistently produced garbage. And, unlike Inoki, he had no real mat skills either. I didn't have many feelings about Taker before GWE, now I think I literally hate the idea of him being touted as a great worker. Think it's a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 We talk about Taker on the podcast I did with the Hales brothers. Maybe that will shed some light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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