Reactions to the List: 100-51

[Matt D]

Yeah, all I did was pick the top three ranked matches off the Memphis set.

If you folks spent the time to fill out the google forum all the way (including recs) then I wouldn't have to do that extra work. So, in essence, it's you all that are lazy!!

Only on house shows.

[Beast]

 

Yeah, all I did was pick the top three ranked matches off the Memphis set.

If you folks spent the time to fill out the google forum all the way (including recs) then I wouldn't have to do that extra work. So, in essence, it's you all that are lazy!!

Only on house shows.

 

 

You're Bret Hart?

[victory]

Surprised Dundee only got 87 votes. Can't imagine anyone not voting for him if they have seen enough of his work. A perfect example of a small guy who really knew how to work and get the most out his abilities.

[Grimmas]

Surprised Dundee only got 87 votes. Can't imagine anyone not voting for him if they have seen enough of his work. A perfect example of a small guy who really knew how to work and get the most out his abilities.

I think that is the issue. I think only 57% of voters have watched enough Memphis.

[goc]

Surprised Dundee only got 87 votes. Can't imagine anyone not voting for him if they have seen enough of his work. A perfect example of a small guy who really knew how to work and get the most out his abilities.

Yea but he never wrestled in Japan.

[Beast]

 

Surprised Dundee only got 87 votes. Can't imagine anyone not voting for him if they have seen enough of his work. A perfect example of a small guy who really knew how to work and get the most out his abilities.

I think that is the issue. I think only 57% of voters have watched enough Memphis.

 

 

That's a ton better than 2006 when he got like 14%.

[Loss]

 

I think Owen was in some ways the best Hart brother, but I can't think of a better example of the difference between the terms "best" and "greatest" than in comparing Owen and Bret.

 

Where did you have Owen? I think that somehow, in our sleep-deprived state, we didn't talk about him.

 

 

Another casualty of my sloppy list. I realized I said, "Oh, I had him higher" when I didn't actually rank him. Owen, Choshu, Yamazaki, Bull ... not sure what I was thinking.

[Cross Face Chicken Wing]

 

Surprised Dundee only got 87 votes. Can't imagine anyone not voting for him if they have seen enough of his work. A perfect example of a small guy who really knew how to work and get the most out his abilities.

I think that is the issue. I think only 57% of voters have watched enough Memphis.

 

 

I've watched a ton of Memphis and Dundee and nearly left him off. Didn't really connect with me and I'm not sure where he'd be without Lawler. I ended up ranking Dundee after re-watching a fair amount of his work and liking it much better than I did upon first viewing.

[Loss]

Dundee should appeal to workrate fans more than anyone else in Memphis. I think he's a terrific mat wrestler and cuts a hard pace. He's great at creating movement, sometimes even working in lightning-quick details that are really cool. Young Dundee could hold his own working a modern style.

[Death From Above]

My God, those Dundee pictures.

[Cap]

As much as I love Lawler's punch and perhaps no one used it better to create moments and tell stories, Dundee's combinations are probably my favorite punches in all of wrestling (sans MAYBE Sangre Chicana's haymaker left hand). He threw awesome punches and when he would put together those combos you could tell he knew what he was doing. That combination of technique and ability to throw a "working punch"brought a whole different kind of legitimacy to the match for me. So so so good.

[jdw]

I have Casas over someone I never thought would move from his spot.

 

Every match is such a joy. I watched this yesterday (excuse the 1.5 speed and note that I am taking life and limb in hand by posting it because it may freeze my account here).

 

 

Look at that use of the cameraman.

 

Just a random match lost to the annals of time and look at that! You find stuff like that in almost any Casas match from almost any era.

 

I love when Negro pulls stuff like that out of thin air. Been in the building when he's played a spot like that too perfection.

[goodhelmet]

 

Surprised Dundee only got 87 votes. Can't imagine anyone not voting for him if they have seen enough of his work. A perfect example of a small guy who really knew how to work and get the most out his abilities.

I think that is the issue. I think only 57% of voters have watched enough Memphis.

 

 

I noticed when I did the podcasts that half of the ballots were missing Lawler and Dundee only appeared on a couple. Memphis isn't for everybody and I am ok with that.

[Childs]

I had Dundee at 56 so no complaints on this one. Seriously, watch the guy with a specific eye on his offense. Phenomenal.

[GOTNW]

 

Surprised Dundee only got 87 votes. Can't imagine anyone not voting for him if they have seen enough of his work. A perfect example of a small guy who really knew how to work and get the most out his abilities.

Yea but he never wrestled in Japan.

 

??????????? Who are you even targeting with that post.

[goc]

Anyone silly enough to respond to such an obvious troll.

[MikeF]

I had Dundee ranked in the 20's. I'm glad he made the list pretty easily.

[DR Ackermann]

Dundee was my number 20.

[Danish Dynamite]

 

 

What's the gateway to getting it? Or what would be your recommend as a starting point? I'm totally ready to give it another go (after I'm done catching up on joshi )

I'm not sure what you watched already. To me like I said, Takada's big UWF-I matches were my gate to shoot-style, as they were aesthetically in the vein of UWF, but much more pro-style at heart, with a sense of epicness, milking comebacks to the max and making the whole thing dramatic. Of course you could say the same about his big matches in the second UWF, although they were much more pure in term of style since he was working a lot against Maeda and Fujiwara. Those matches are terrific too.

Cool :-) Thanks. I intend to basically start over on shoot.

[Danish Dynamite]

 

That's an oversimplification if I've ever seen one. Internal consistency of pro wrestling is extremely questionable, even within specific styles in a specific time and changes drastically depending on time, location, promotion etc. I mean you've gone on record stating you don't really love wrestling outside of the US so I see it more as an issue of you being willing to accept non "The Thing vs The Hulk" takes on pro wrestling than an issue in styles that do that themselves.

Someone actually listened to me! I'm excited! This is not sarcasm. I'm honestly excited.

 

Sure it could be my problem, I can only attempt to articulate what that problem is because I'm working on speaking up more. I'm not just going "Mexicans! BLECH!" when I try to watch lucha because that seems exceptionally short sited and OMG so racist. I'm trying to tell you what my issues are and why they exist. I'm not trying to tell you that you should stop liking it. There are obviously people who love shoot stuff since they seem to think their guys are getting underrated, I just figured I would throw in from the other side of "I didn't rank him" since the conversation was somewhat one sided.

Goodear: This and your previous posts on your issues with and thoughts on shoot have been a great read for me. I'm gonna give shoot another go based on recommends from the more balanced shoot fans on the board. But until rewatching the stuff, I'm still at the point where your posts have come closest to describing how I feel and actually pinpointing the reasons. Good job and thanks :-)

[Badlittlekitten]

Owen at #86, Dundee # 45, Bull #43 and Baba at #32 are now crossed off my list.

 

Dundee is one of the best at injecting his character into his in ring work - it's his tricky, cheeky- chapy babyface stuff that shines brightest for me. He has an off kilter edge about him. Feels like he's ahead of his time in many ways. Amazing pictures too . .

[Robert S]

 

I had Tamura at #4 and he was my highest ranked Japanese-born wrestler. It's still pretty impressive that he ranked as high as he did while only making 55 ballots. The 3 placements before him had 80+. Makes me wonder if Tamura will ultimately be the wrestler with the highest average vote?

Not even close.

 

Here are the averages of the top 10 guys:

 

7.95

 

11.36

 

11.06

 

10.23

 

17.63

 

18.03

 

20.92

 

16.62

 

13.19

 

18.76

 

 

Although the next person with a lower average is ranked 27th.

 

I guess that means that maybe number 2-4 and definitely number 9 are lucha or puro guys as their relative high average position compared to their "neighbours" in ranking indicates that they were on significantly less ballots.

[concrete1992]

Imagine Casas only being 9th.

[Danish Dynamite]

Had Dundee at #51. Totally agree with what's been said on his offence and character work. I'm totally ok with someone not putting him on the list, but I'd imagine that you'd do that mostly if you haven't really seen his work or are down on the Memphis style. Would surprise me if someone really dug the Memphis stuff, but didn't like Dundee. If it's within your taste of wrestling, he seems as obvious an inclusion as Flair if you like North American wrestling in general, the pillars if you like AJPW 90's etc. Sure Lawler is obviously the guy from that territory, but to me there's no Memphis without Bill Dundee.

[Danish Dynamite]

 

 

 

Funny how you manage to negate any valid point you may or may not have, when you brush off the entire train of thought of someone else (who actually seemed to make good sense to me), by simply calling them stupid. That seems stupid to me.

Unless you're going to have counter-arguments why it isn't stupid you might as well not even bother responding.

 

Really?

 

Couldn't place you, but I remember "talking" Ric Flair with you now. I think you and I should smile, shake hands and just stop commenting on each other's posts.