Reactions to the List: 50-26

[Loss]

Still complaining. The footage is all out there. Good on Hales the younger. I was the #3.

 

Any reason you can't celebrate the huge jump?

[Dylan Waco]

Because Bret Hart isn't better than Buddy Rose?

[cad]

Buddy Rose, who hasn't been talked up anywhere except here and DVDVR, jumping 233 spots from 2006 is not evidence of people "not watching footage" and just going on memory or whatever BS people are trying to come up with to justify why their favorite niche didn't do well. It doesn't matter if people on this board were pimping him as a possible #1 candidate because there aren't any other places on the internet where that discussion would take place.

 

The idea that the voting was "infiltrated" by a bunch of horrible voters who only voted mainstream U.S. wrestlers really is not coming through in the results at all. Are there some ballots that didn't have anything but U.S. wrestlers? Yea but definitely not enough to where it's somehow tainted the entire pool. And it's not like there weren't ballots that were all guys who wrestled in Japan as evidenced by the ballot that had Inoki as #1 that GOTNW posted.

Hasn't the top 100 had one European guy? Either people aren't watching the stuff, or they're watching it and deciding that no one great wrestled there, which sounds like the result of a pro-elsewhere bias. I don't even care about the niche that is the continent of Europe, it's just the easiest example I could think of.

 

At the end of the day as long as you're happy with the list that's all that matters. Let's not go crazy in defending it, though. Mainstream US guys clearly did get more chances than other equally talented wrestlers.

[Loss]

Buddy Rose ranked above The Rock, HHH, Chris Jericho and Mick Foley. That's not "mainstream bias".

[GOTNW]

For all the talk about niches I had no idea who Buddy Rose was before joining PWO.

[Childs]

Satanico should have been higher. I don't see a case for Dandy over him. Frankly, I don't see a case for almost anyone over him. He was in my top 5.

 

The case for Dandy over him (and I had Satanico higher) is that Dandy was a more beautiful, multi-dimensional wrestler at his peak. I'm not surprised Dandy finished higher. He's been pimped as an elite talent since before the last poll.

[Dylan Waco]

 

Buddy Rose, who hasn't been talked up anywhere except here and DVDVR, jumping 233 spots from 2006 is not evidence of people "not watching footage" and just going on memory or whatever BS people are trying to come up with to justify why their favorite niche didn't do well. It doesn't matter if people on this board were pimping him as a possible #1 candidate because there aren't any other places on the internet where that discussion would take place.

 

The idea that the voting was "infiltrated" by a bunch of horrible voters who only voted mainstream U.S. wrestlers really is not coming through in the results at all. Are there some ballots that didn't have anything but U.S. wrestlers? Yea but definitely not enough to where it's somehow tainted the entire pool. And it's not like there weren't ballots that were all guys who wrestled in Japan as evidenced by the ballot that had Inoki as #1 that GOTNW posted.

Hasn't the top 100 had one European guy? Either people aren't watching the stuff, or they're watching it and deciding that no one great wrestled there, which sounds like the result of a pro-elsewhere bias. I don't even care about the niche that is the continent of Europe, it's just the easiest example I could think of.

 

At the end of the day as long as you're happy with the list that's all that matters. Let's not go crazy in defending it, though. Mainstream US guys clearly did get more chances than other equally talented wrestlers.

 

 

You sure? All the AJPW sacred cows are still alive, and yet no hand wringing is going on on that front. I wonder why?

[Dylan Waco]

 

Satanico should have been higher. I don't see a case for Dandy over him. Frankly, I don't see a case for almost anyone over him. He was in my top 5.

 

The case for Dandy over him (and I had Satanico higher) is that Dandy was a more beautiful, multi-dimensional wrestler at his peak. I'm not surprised Dandy finished higher. He's been pimped as an elite talent since before the last poll.

 

 

Man I love Dandy, and I think people not getting him is utterly bizarre, but the number of people who haven't gotten him vis a vis Satanico feels really large. I would have thought for sure Dandy wouldn't make the top 75 based on early trends. Finishing ahead of Satanico is a shocker

[Childs]

 

 

Satanico should have been higher. I don't see a case for Dandy over him. Frankly, I don't see a case for almost anyone over him. He was in my top 5.

 

The case for Dandy over him (and I had Satanico higher) is that Dandy was a more beautiful, multi-dimensional wrestler at his peak. I'm not surprised Dandy finished higher. He's been pimped as an elite talent since before the last poll.

 

 

Man I love Dandy, and I think people not getting him is utterly bizarre, but the number of people who haven't gotten him vis a vis Satanico feels really large. I would have thought for sure Dandy wouldn't make the top 75 based on early trends. Finishing ahead of Satanico is a shocker

 

Was it a lot of people not getting Dandy or just Parv being really loud about not getting Dandy?

[Dylan Waco]

Several people have said they don't really get him. One of the more bizarre things of the process to me.

[goodhelmet]

Yeah, I wouldn't be too bummed about the Satanico placing. Dandy has more than a decade of people praising him and recommending matches. Even though I had Satanico higher as well, people haven't been beating his drum as long. By 2026, he'll be appreciated more than he is now.

[jpchicago23]

I had no clue who Rose was, never knew the greatness of El Dandy, and would've never appreciated guys like Butch Reed if it wasn't for this board. I'm excited to delve into the guys in the top 100 that didn't make my list

[stunning_grover]

40. Yoshiaki Fujiwara

I have him at #38.

39. AJ Styles

I didn't rank him.

38. Mick Foley

Have him at #84. I enjoy his runs in WCW, ECW and IWA Japan as Cactus Jack. Even his WWF run as Mankind is fun.

37. Satanico

I have him at #13. One of the three greatest Mexican wrestlers ever, in my opinion.

36. Buddy Rose

He's my #23. His work in Portland during the late 1970s and early 1980s is tremendous.

35. El Dandy

He's my #33.

70 wrestlers that are in my top 100 have appeared in the final results so far...

30 wrestlers of my top 100 haven't appeared in the final results yet... (that means 4 of the 34 wrestlers still to come are not on my list)

My list [overall ranking in brackets]

...

#8 Masa Fuchi [#111] (high vote: #8)

#9 Sangre Chicana [#95] (high vote: #9)

#10 Bull Nakano [#61]

#11 Dick Murdoch [#53]

#12 Dick Togo [#71] (high vote: #12)

#13 Satanico [#37]

#14 Chigusa Nagayo [#110]

#15 Fuerza Guerrera [#155] (high vote: #15)

#16 Giant Baba [#63]

...

#18 Manami Toyota [#89]

...

#23 Buddy Rose [#36]

#24 Dynamite Kid [#78]

#25 Harley Race [#45]

#26 Rick Martel [#43]

#27 L.A. Park [#96]

#28 Mr. Gannosuke [#277] (high vote: #28)

...

#30 Akira Hokuto [#52]

#31 Mayumi Ozaki [#133]

#32 Greg Valentine [#54]

#33 El Dandy [#35]

...

#36 Jaguar Yokota [#114]

#37 Aja Kong [#49]

#38 Yoshiaki Fujiwara [#40]

#39 Owen Hart [#58]

...

#41 La Fiera [#164]

...

#43 Ted DiBiase [#42]

...

#48 El Samurai [#212] (high vote: #48)

#49 Kyoko Inoue [#217]

#50 Curt Hennig [#55]

#51 Sgt. Slaughter [#64]

...

#53 Tsuyoshi Kikuchi [#148]

#54 Atlantis [#74]

#55 Great Sasuke [#116]

...

#57 Yumi Ikeshita [#384]

...

#59 Brian Pillman [#72]

#60 TAKA Michinoku [#180]

...

#62 Shinobu Kandori [#146]

#63 Shinjiro Ohtani [#65]

#64 Steve Williams [#82]

#65 Dynamite Kansai [#125]

#66 Dan Kroffat [#254]

#67 Tully Blanchard [#44]

...

#69 Perro Aguayo [#140]

#70 Tito Santana [#80]

#71 Bison Kimura [#420]

#72 Devil Masami [#135]

#73 Cuty Suzuki [#385]

#74 Kerry Von Erich [#98]

#75 Dennis Condrey [#199]

#76 Pirata Morgan [#117]

#77 Super Astro [#283]

#78 Leo Burke [#296]

#79 Jinsei Shinzaki [#400]

#80 Hulk Hogan [#75]

...

#82 Masato Tanaka [#175]

#83 Javier Cruz [#502] (high vote/only vote: #83)

#84 Mick Foley [#38]

#85 Psicosis [#183]

...

#88 Marty Jannetty [#272]

#89 Espectrito [#370]

#90 Masa Saito [#160]

#91 Sabu [#149]

#92 Scott Steiner [#162]

#93 Jacques Rougeau [#339]

#94 Andre the Giant [#51]

#95 Atsushi Onita [#89]

#96 Carlos Colon [#103]

#97 Roddy Piper [#83]

#98 Stan Lane [#260]

#99 Big Boss Man [#171]

#100 Ron Starr [#403]

[Matt D]

EDITORIAL NOTE FROM 2020: I end up apologizing for this rant a few pages later. Dear reader, I ask for your kindness and for you to celebrate my passion. Please do not judge me too harshly. I fight but for my own personal truth and I fight with all my heart. I hope for you to do the same!

 

Dandy was in my top 30, I think. I don't think he holds a candle to Satanico. But he's an emotional wrestler, and I tend not to trend quite as highly on those. I think the footage is highly in Satanico's favor as well, mind you. It's interesting to see that he was in maybe 10 less ballots than Dandy but ranked higher on average.

 

As for Buddy and why I can't just shut up and celebrate it?

 

Let's see:

 

1.) I'm personally invested. As in I ranked him high, I'm passionate about him as a wrestler, and I wrote probably fifty match reviews and an essay that is the most I have ever put into anything in wrestling, probably.

2.) I honestly think he's better than almost any other wrestler I've come across, save for one or two (as he's my three) and I would have ranked him higher than those areas I did not rank without hesitation.

3.) He trends against "great matches" though he has those, so I guess I'm a little personally frustrated anytime I see a thread asking "What Buddy Rose matches do I have to see?" because the answer is all of them from 79-82, and you won't fully get even half of the picture if you don't take that journey. The footage is out there for anyone to see right now. I get why people can't or won't do that, but that's just a general frustration about life and the watching of pro wrestling, not against any specific person.

4.) Because I don't really care about the growth. I wasn't part of 2006. Most of the voting base wasn't. And with some people I care to some degree, but with Buddy? No way. What I care about here is the primal truth. I'll feel exactly the same about Bock when he drops. I get the arguments against them when it comes to time and what we don't have. I really do. But I don't see them outside of the top fifteen even with those. In 2006, people had the excuse of ignorance. Most of the footage wasn't out (or was JUST out) or wasn't easily available. It's a different world now, and in this world, he's too low.

 

I understand the placement and why he wasn't higher, but understanding and celebrating are two different things. I am not celebrating the growth because I care enough to still be frustrated at the positioning and I'm not going to apologize for caring.

[Grimmas]

The thing about Buddy is, he was on 61% of the ballots and the average vote for him was 34.7. I would gather a et that the remaining 39% hadn't watched anything of him outside of maybe the AWA.

[Matt D]

The thing about Buddy is, he was on 61% of the ballots and the average vote for him was 34.7. I would gather a et that the remaining 39% hadn't watched anything of him outside of maybe the AWA blow away diet?

 

And isn't that kind of frustrating?

[El-P]

Seriously, a #36 ranking for a guy whose prime was in Portland in the late 70's early 80's and who, from your own account, doesn't have much in term of great matches (I've seen two, at least, counting one Rockers match in AWA). Being frustrated about that doesn't make any sense, really. It's all positive if you love the guy.

[El-P]

Grim, you really should have put that damn Bret Hart quote for Dandy. Like it or not, that's one of the most iconic quote in pro-wrestling for nerds like us.

[cad]

 

 

Buddy Rose, who hasn't been talked up anywhere except here and DVDVR, jumping 233 spots from 2006 is not evidence of people "not watching footage" and just going on memory or whatever BS people are trying to come up with to justify why their favorite niche didn't do well. It doesn't matter if people on this board were pimping him as a possible #1 candidate because there aren't any other places on the internet where that discussion would take place.

 

The idea that the voting was "infiltrated" by a bunch of horrible voters who only voted mainstream U.S. wrestlers really is not coming through in the results at all. Are there some ballots that didn't have anything but U.S. wrestlers? Yea but definitely not enough to where it's somehow tainted the entire pool. And it's not like there weren't ballots that were all guys who wrestled in Japan as evidenced by the ballot that had Inoki as #1 that GOTNW posted.

Hasn't the top 100 had one European guy? Either people aren't watching the stuff, or they're watching it and deciding that no one great wrestled there, which sounds like the result of a pro-elsewhere bias. I don't even care about the niche that is the continent of Europe, it's just the easiest example I could think of.

 

At the end of the day as long as you're happy with the list that's all that matters. Let's not go crazy in defending it, though. Mainstream US guys clearly did get more chances than other equally talented wrestlers.

 

 

You sure? All the AJPW sacred cows are still alive, and yet no hand wringing is going on on that front. I wonder why?

 

I didn't say ALL others, and in my post before that I noted that mainstream Japanese was the only type of wrestling to get as much attention as the US did, both mainstream and territorial. But yes I'm sure, the numbers have already been posted.

[Grimmas]

Grim, you really should have put that damn Bret Hart quote for Dandy. Like it or not, that's one of the most iconic quote in pro-wrestling for nerds like us.

I refuse for people to think of El Dandy like that. Someone used it as a comment, but I cut it out. I want that association to go away.

[Bierschwale]

I think that Dandy/Foley-Rose/Satanico might be my favorite match of a tag pair up out of four straight wrestlers off of the list so far. Since it's two luchadores and a Portland guy, the next two might make for the greatest trios ever.

[Grimmas]

 

The thing about Buddy is, he was on 61% of the ballots and the average vote for him was 34.7. I would gather a et that the remaining 39% hadn't watched anything of him outside of maybe the AWA blow away diet?

 

And isn't that kind of frustrating?

 

a little, but the improvement he's made on reputation over the last decade is great. I'm sure it will continue to rise and in 2026 he can take his place in the top 20 where he belongs.

[cad]

Buddy Rose ranked above The Rock, HHH, Chris Jericho and Mick Foley. That's not "mainstream bias".

The Rock ranked above Emilio Charles. HHH ranked above Fiera. Chris Jericho ranked above Sangre Chicana.

[Matt D]

 

 

The thing about Buddy is, he was on 61% of the ballots and the average vote for him was 34.7. I would gather a et that the remaining 39% hadn't watched anything of him outside of maybe the AWA blow away diet?

 

And isn't that kind of frustrating?

 

a little, but the improvement he's made on reputation over the last decade is great. I'm sure it will continue to rise and in 2026 he can take his place in the top 20 where he belongs.

 

I bet Zack Sabre Jr or someone beats him.

[TheU_2001]

Blow away diet > Hulkamania !?!?!? WTF?