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Grimmas

Reactions to the List: 50-26

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Grim, you really should have put that damn Bret Hart quote for Dandy. Like it or not, that's one of the most iconic quote in pro-wrestling for nerds like us.

I refuse for people to think of El Dandy like that. Someone used it as a comment, but I cut it out. I want that association to go away.

 

Come on now. It will never go away. Better bask in its glory.

 

I loved El Dandy in 2006 after watching a bunch of his matches. Couldn't in good conscience vote for him again since, apart from his WCW stint, haven't watched/rewatch anything. Yeah, I fucked the luchadors over. But I do love Lucha Underground.

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AJ Styles has at least been very good for the better part of 14 years, periods of true greatness the entire time. Top 10 is lunacy, anything after that . . . glad he is where he is

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Time makes fools of us all. All I know is that pasty dudes with outstanding guts did way better than they did ten years ago.

 

Buddy & Murdoch never worked the same territory, right? That'd have been an amazing team in the ring and a very awkward one outside of it.

 

Edit: Well, they definitely worked in AWA together. That's a trademark oversight on my part. But Cagematch, which has a decent number of AWA results for the era, doesn't have them in a match together. Or in NJ, or the WWF. I am totally missing something here.

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The thing about Buddy is, he was on 61% of the ballots and the average vote for him was 34.7. I would gather a et that the remaining 39% hadn't watched anything of him outside of maybe the AWA blow away diet?

 

And isn't that kind of frustrating?

 

 

To play devil's advocate - couldn't I say the same about you in regards to Japan?

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Yes, and I am as much of an ass as everyone else. Some of it is availability too though. You can't find enough Hashimoto matches on YouTube. I wanted to rank him but I did not have enough to wrap my mind around him with. You can with Buddy.

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Well, I figured Benoit would show up around these spots. I had him at #31 myself. Way too good to drop lower, he was just an amazing worker was so long, although I've been down on some of his early Japan stuff for almost 15 years now. But his WCW work. The Sullivan feud. The Eddie match on Nitro. The Raven & DDP program. The Booker T miracle. It's not like he was working only with world's beater over there. He wasn't as good once he hit WWE, as he was forced into their style and got bad habits out of it (working too much with Angle maybe ?) but still, what a pro-wrestler.

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81 ballots for Fujiwara seems quite low. Feel like most of the top Japanese workers from here on will have a lot more ballots, and I can't imagine voting for them without Fujiwara at least being on your radar for the bottom of your list. Shit Choshu got on 97 ballots, don't really think Fujiwara as a fringe shoot-style guy is accurate.

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Feels good that Foley dropped now to me. I ranked him, I like him but I do find his final placement a bit high.

 

Buddy Rose is now my highest ranked drop (he was my #23). What a fucking awesome worker he was. He was great at every aspect of the business, wasn't he? I'd seen his bloated wwf character before, and a bunch of the awa stuff, but pwo turned me on to Portland (had only seen a couple of Piper Rose matches from there before), so thanks for that! Have enjoyed pretty much all I've seen, and also all the hardcore pimping of the guy that people like Matt D have done. Good job :-)

 

Satanico has been another pwo revelation for me. Had seen maybe 3 or 4 matches of his a couple of years ago. I'm still not the biggest lucha guy, but I'm actually surprised I ranked so many of them, and ranked them so high... Maybe I have converted without knowing it myself :-)

 

And, sorry Steven, but it has to be done: I never doubted El Dandy!

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Buddy Rose ranked above The Rock, HHH, Chris Jericho and Mick Foley. That's not "mainstream bias".

The Rock ranked above Emilio Charles. HHH ranked above Fiera. Chris Jericho ranked above Sangre Chicana.
Rock, HHH and Jericho have almost their entire careers on easily available footage. The 3 lucha guys do not and for Chicana and Fiera we are missing huge chunks of their peak. I still voted for them because we have some really great footage of them but I could see why others might not rate them due to that. As for Emilio he just didn't make the cut for me. I ranked 15 luchadores but he wasn't one of them. And I voted for Rock in my bottom 20.

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81 ballots for Fujiwara seems quite low. Feel like most of the top Japanese workers from here on will have a lot more ballots, and I can't imagine voting for them without Fujiwara at least being on your radar for the bottom of your list. Shit Choshu got on 97 ballots, don't really think Fujiwara as a fringe shoot-style guy is accurate.

 

I actually agree. Fujiwara wasn't really on my radar when I started plowing through the Japanese stuff. I had a bunch of names I was looking out for. But Fujiwara just kept popping up doing great work in matches where I was actually seeking other guys. So if really giving Japan a chance, he should be a name that makes an impression.

In a way it was the same, but a little lower, for me with Yatsu. Happy byproducts of checking out the stuff :-)

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Have no problem with people ranking Benoit, at all. But also have no problem that he's dropped now. I now have everyone of the remaining guys on my list.

 

Highest drop is my #23, Buddy Rose.

Lowest guy remaining is my #91, Shawn Michaels.

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I voted for all the remaining guys (Foley was the last I didn't have) as I imagine a lot of us did.

 

On the other hand, the last 10 reveals have finally taken a big bite out of my top 25.

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I have sixteen guys left. Has anyone else fared as poorly?

 

You haven't fared poorly :-) I have with my boring list of 33 out of 33 remaining... You've made a list that I'm eager to check out and watch stuff of all the guys I didn't even consider ranking this time. I'm hoping to make a Scarlet-Left-Left list in 2026!

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And, sorry Steven, but it has to be done: I never doubted El Dandy!

 

I think Steven is saving this quote for when Bret Hart drops.

 

 

The quote so nice, we'll use it twice :D (But I think Steven genuinely hates it...)

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Benoit on 61% of the ballots. That's actually not as much of a drop-off as I expected.

 

I have a lot of thoughts on the notion of "disappointment," but I want to hold them back until we see more of the list (and the immediate sting of seeing guys like Satanico show up early subsides). I do see the list reflecting a very different GWE journey than I took and I agree with Matt that improvement over a list from ten years ago that 90% of the voting population didn't participate in only takes you so far.

 

I can also tell you that I didn't watch every Buddy Rose match from 79-82, but I didn't have to do that to see that he was great (and #19 on my list). He's an instance where the list not only doesn't reflect my own journey, but didn't really seem to reflect the GWE forum discussion through the process either.

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I was at a wrestling show recently and was looking at the DVDs that a dealer was selling, and he asked me who some of my favorite wrestlers were, in order to demonstrate how he had footage of all the greats available. I said Buddy Rose was a favorite and he looked at me and said "Buddy Rose? Do you mean Dusty RHODES? Buddy didn't have any good matches."

 

I think that about sums up how a lot of people still feel about Buddy. I would say that he has the highest degree of difficulty placing in a poll like this, because people not only have to discover him, but they go in with a preconceived notion that he is a comedy slob and nothing more.

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I was at a wrestling show recently and was looking at the DVDs that a dealer was selling, and he asked me who some of my favorite wrestlers were, in order to demonstrate how he had footage of all the greats available. I said Buddy Rose was a favorite and he looked at me and said "Buddy Rose? Do you mean Dusty RHODES? Buddy didn't have any good matches."

 

I think that about sums up how a lot of people still feel about Buddy. I would say that he has the highest degree of difficulty placing in a poll like this, because people not only have to discover him, but they go in with a preconceived notion that he is a comedy slob and nothing more.

 

Scary... But you're right. And Buddy's so fucking good...

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Reveal schedule change. Stopping here tonight. Then:

 

Mon, April 25: 33-26 Tue, April 26: 25-18 Wed, April 27: 17-11 Thu, April 28: 10-6 Fri, April 29: 5-3 Sat, April 30: 2-1

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I was at a wrestling show recently and was looking at the DVDs that a dealer was selling, and he asked me who some of my favorite wrestlers were, in order to demonstrate how he had footage of all the greats available. I said Buddy Rose was a favorite and he looked at me and said "Buddy Rose? Do you mean Dusty RHODES? Buddy didn't have any good matches."

 

I think that about sums up how a lot of people still feel about Buddy. I would say that he has the highest degree of difficulty placing in a poll like this, because people not only have to discover him, but they go in with a preconceived notion that he is a comedy slob and nothing more.

So you know, we would have pulled together with bail money.

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Yes, and I am as much of an ass as everyone else. Some of it is availability too though. You can't find enough Hashimoto matches on YouTube. I wanted to rank him but I did not have enough to wrap my mind around him with. You can with Buddy.

Smh.

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Yes, and I am as much of an ass as everyone else. Some of it is availability too though. You can't find enough Hashimoto matches on YouTube. I wanted to rank him but I did not have enough to wrap my mind around him with. You can with Buddy.

 

That's garbage. Ditch. Same goes for just about everything outside of the last couple years.

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