Matt D Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 I am uniquely suited to have no idea how to find Japanese wrestling. (I did find a Taue/Hansen match there at one point but people pointed me that way pretty clearly and I didn't even think of it when I tapped on Hashimoto). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpchicago23 Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Do you mean on YouTube and for free or all together? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 One thing that Loss has been absolutely right upon is that we, in general, did a poor job of stumping for anyone, especially comparatively. It was much more about our personal journeys. Even things like the Flair pods were about Flair, not necessarily about Flair relative to anyone else (same with the aforementioned Satanico post), though those were at least done with the thought of raising his ranking (or ensuring his #1 ranking). I'm not sure if that would have moved the needle due to outside votes and the sheer time span of this project. I know posts trying to sum up wrestlers came after people had already submitted their lists, for instance. I think there was a lot of people going off in all directions and then speaking towards the people who went off in that direction as well. I'm not entirely sure what would have fixed that, except for something that looks a lot more like the presidential primaries. I said this to Stacey on the pod and I mean it more generally: I'm excited for people to discover Buddy if they haven't yet, especially his week to week brilliance, even more so if that's not a way that they usually digest great wrestling (as opposed to necessarily great matches), just in the way that I'm looking forward to working my way through more Choshu or Hokuto or Tamura. You can only see something for the first time once, after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Yeah no offence Matt but your footage excuse is nonsense. I have no access to anything and haven't dropped a cent on this project but I found enough Hashimoto to watch. NJ is tricky but Dailymotion is there. The damn DITCH is there. There is plenty of stuff out there. Not to mention all of the other Japanese promotions that are readily available that you ignored. It's not a footage issue. It's a you didn't have the time to spend to get the full picture issue. You've already said so. Trying to act like Japanese wrestling is hard to find just because you're mad about not enough people watching Buddy is pretty disingenuous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Alright, if I wanted it badly enough, I could have done better with it. Fair point. It's my fault for not pushing harder on certain things to have a more complete list. I'll rescind the argument, at least until Bock drops. We'll see how I manage then. EDIT: Breaks Avatar entered and adjusted for accordingly as well. It works better if you click on it for full effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 I'm putting you on a watch list when Bock drops. I guess it just goes to show that while it's improved, he's still a guy not everyone has seen. A lot of regular posters were saying "yeah damn I gotta watch Buddy in Portland one of these days!" and left him off. I totally lowballed him because I've only seen the Rockers feud and a couple other matches. I love him and he made my top half but I couldn't go any higher without seeing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exposer Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Buddy was almost my #1. I sort of regret he isn't now. He checks out on every category except longevity & even there he's pretty good. I think he's great every year from 77-87 in the footage we have. I also think he's ridiculously good in 89 Portland for an obese man. He's the best wrestler I've ever seen at his peak (79-83). He's an all-time bumper, can sell, has great offense, great tag worker (w/Wiskowski, Oliver, Sheepherders, Rogers, Somers), great mannerisms, great heel, great face, great promo, great in the main event (Portland, SF, AWA, WWF), great in mid card (AWA), & even good in the undercard (WWF). He has the great feuds (Adonis, Bastien, Youngblood, Miller, Piper, Hennig, Dynamite, Martel, Rockers) with all-time great matches (80 Portland tag w/Wiskowski vs Piper/Martel, Martel series, Hennig series, Rockers series). Buddy had it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Matt leaving off Japan bothers me less in a world where people freely leave off lucha because they don't "get it." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elliott Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Damn what a brutal day of losing guys so far: Rose, Dandy, Satanico, Fujiwara, all of those are my guys. But, once again, I'm choosing to focus on the positives... Satanico placed above someone like Foley even though he appeared on 38 fewer ballots. Satanico having an average vote or 29.73, indicating that the people that like him, really like him. Satanico got three 2nd place votes! 3! So I'm not totally crazy. (for the record, I didn't vote Satanico #1 because I tried to separate favorites as much as I possibly could and it just didn't feel right ranking him above the guy I had at #1 in spite of all my work) Satanico, Buddy Rose, Fujiwara and El Dandy all got over 80 votes. EIGHTY! I'm as bummed as anyone that Buddy Rose "only" made it 36, but holy shit yall, Buddy Rose made it to 36 and there are 92 people out there watching his matches! Im just a little bummed that it has been this group of guys and then we slam into Voldemort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkdoc Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 i think the point people like pol made was that this list doesn't reflect the threads and other posts here, and those posts generally came from the people who watched the most footage for this. someone earlier brought up the example of Brock making it onto like 110 ballots, when his thread was mixed at best, as a sign of an anonymous mass of voters who didn't fully participate in the process. honestly, i'm not sure how much of a difference better stumping would've made - opening up the project beyond this forum inherently brings in a bunch of people who won't care about any of it. maybe it could've worked for joshi because that style would have the most natural appeal to modern smart fans, idk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donsem43 Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 I have no problem with people leaving wrestlers from a whole genre off of their lists if they don't like the style. I've been a joshi fan long enough to see people try it out then say it's not for them. That's all I really ask people to do. I think its silly to be upset that people didn't watch someone that you ranked highly. This isn't something like sports where you have solid metric to back up your argument, you just have what your opinion on what you saw. What the real goal of a list like this should be is to introduce different workers that hopefully causes others to want to check them out, even more than the nomination process. The nice thing about this board is that it's open to all types of wrestling, so it's disappointing to see people scolding others for not watching certain styles/wrestlers because it kinda defeats what the ultimate goal of the list should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bestintheworld3589 Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Featured today from my list were AJ Styles (23) Chris Benoit (19) Mick Foley (12) This leaves 23 people on my list and none of my Top 11 have been revealed. I have one person left in my bottom 50 that hasn't been revealed also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmare007 Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Matt leaving off Japan bothers me less in a world where people freely leave off lucha because they don't "get it." You keep saying that. Who are these people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmare007 Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 i think the point people like pol made was that this list doesn't reflect the threads and other posts here, and those posts generally came from the people who watched the most footage for this. someone earlier brought up the example of Brock making it onto like 110 ballots, when his thread was mixed at best, as a sign of an anonymous mass of voters who didn't fully participate in the process. honestly, i'm not sure how much of a difference better stumping would've made - opening up the project beyond this forum inherently brings in a bunch of people who won't care about any of it. maybe it could've worked for joshi because that style would have the most natural appeal to modern smart fans, idk There were only 20 anonymous ballots. Even if all of them voted for Brock - which can't be because I was one, by mistake, and didn't have him on mine - he still did amazingly well for everyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eegah Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 The three styles I left off my list were solely on not seeing enough in World of Sport, Shoot Style, and Joshi. Im going to deep dive on the first two, Joshi will probably be a distant third although I will try and watch more. Im looking forward to loving new wrestlers overall. This list isnt an end, just a beginning. One that I am excited about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bierschwale Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 I suggest that 2026 should have pooled nomination threads that can lead to secondary and tertiary pooled threads where everything's up in the air. Specific thread limit for each candidate. But that's 2026 and why in God's name would we break out Robert's Rules for it now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkdoc Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Jmare, that's a good point. i guess i shouldn't have said "anonymous", more like "non-PWO regulars". people bring up AJ Styles in the top 40 but i think when people look at this list even a couple years from now, the poor ranking of the women will be far and away the most embarrassing part. Brock in the top 50 will also be up there - guys like Hogan & Dusty are more understandable when you realize not everyone was voting just on in-ring work, but Brock doesn't have anywhere near their track record as a draw. i've been pleasantly surprised with the list aside from those issues, mind you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 I didn't have either Dusty or Hogan on my list, but I think it's dangerous to attribute their ranking to "not everyone was voting just on in-ring work," though i imagine that is part of why some people did vote for them. I think that would tell half, or maybe even less than half the story. (That doesn't change your general point. I just have heard it a few times and I don't think that's entirely what's happening, especially for Hogan who fell relatively high). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luchaundead Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 I have the feeling the legend of Brock will hold up similar to other past multi-sport athletes an example that comes to mind is Wahoo McDaniel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Microstatistics Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Grim, you really should have put that damn Bret Hart quote for Dandy. Like it or not, that's one of the most iconic quote in pro-wrestling for nerds like us. I refuse for people to think of El Dandy like that. Someone used it as a comment, but I cut it out. I want that association to go away. Agreed. If someone tries to legitimately praise El Dandy in other places, "who are you to doubt El Dandy" or "one heck of a wrestler" come up and the whole thing turns into a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkdoc Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 I didn't have either Dusty or Hogan on my list, but I think it's dangerous to attribute their ranking to "not everyone was voting just on in-ring work," though i imagine that is part of why some people did vote for them. I think that would tell half, or maybe even less than half the story. (That doesn't change your general point. I just have heard it a few times and I don't think that's entirely what's happening, especially for Hogan who fell relatively high). agree with all of this! i just meant that there's an easy way to spin those placings for the unfamiliar. Luchaundead, the difference there is length of career. Brock just doesn't have a whole lot of meat to his resume, and we may be seeing diminishing returns with his act as we speak. there's been a lot of backlash ever since the Suplex City crap took off - i personally have found him a lot less interesting since then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Schneider Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 Jmare, that's a good point. i guess i shouldn't have said "anonymous", more like "non-PWO regulars". people bring up AJ Styles in the top 40 but i think when people look at this list even a couple years from now, the poor ranking of the women will be far and away the most embarrassing part. Brock in the top 50 will also be up there - guys like Hogan & Dusty are more understandable when you realize not everyone was voting just on in-ring work, but Brock doesn't have anywhere near their track record as a draw. i've been pleasantly surprised with the list aside from those issues, mind you! I doubt that, Joshi is a pretty dead style and its prime is even further in the rear view mirror, I can't imagine there will be some sort of Joshi review, unless its something like LLPW which wasn't beaten to death by guys in the 90. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElHijodeGorgeousGeorge Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 I don't think people will look back at the Joshi rankings as harshly as they will the American divas I feel like, depending on if this supposed "Divas Revolution" continues to make that division mean something. Also, I've been pleasantly surprised by the list so far and feel like it is echoing what I figured the average of us PWO browsers think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Dragon Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 I'm very curious that once one of the Eaton, Morton, Anderson, Windham, & Rhodes group goes, the others will fall directly afterwards. I'm very curious at this point how those 5 will rank in comparison to one another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luchaundead Posted April 25, 2016 Report Share Posted April 25, 2016 I think the backlash on Brock right now is only from the hardcore crowd and once the more mainstream and casual fans have a similar reaction I assume we will see a resurgence of the super worker Brock we use to see Brock seems to be a pretty smart worker and tends to work to what it takes to get the biggest pops right now suplex city is over And Phil Stardom, Ice Ribbon, and Sendai Girls are all getting buzz and starting to show signs of heating up combined with the popularity of American female workers currently I wouldn't be suprised if fans aren't looking back to see what inspired them in 10 years then they are all more popular Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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