Reactions to the List: 25-11

[LowBlowPodcast]

Guess I was in the minority with the Steamboat vote as #2 overall. Can't say enough about his work ethic, selling, high spots, and just how important he could make a match feel on ppv or free tv. Great stuff from him for a number of years and even showed he could still go against Jericho for some fun nostalgia.

[Grimmas]

I'll let the speculation go on who is the 1 of the final 11 to not make the top 10.

[Exposer]

I'm going to say Lawler for two reasons. 1) I ranked him lower than a lot of people & I'm now realizing how significant my vote is. 2) I predicted he wouldn't make the top 10

[goc]

Lawler will be at #11 because he never worked All Japan.

[Yo-Yo's Roomie]

I'll guess Rey Rey.

[dawho5]

I'd say Bock did great for us not having his prime on tape. His average vote was among the highest we've seen so far. And he jumped spots from 2006. And he was on 132 out of 151 ballots. That seems like a victory in and of itself. This along with the idea that, yes, people had just discovered him and couldn't justify putting him higher on the amount of footage they had watched, tells me that Bock (and Casas looking at his average) did very well.

 

I think there is a benefit to looking at the list in ways other than "who ranked above and below them." For people who have not been the mainstream guys, it's going to seem like they got the short end of the stick. There was a great post a few pages back about "mainstream" being how most people got into wrestling. So if people are more in the beginning stages of exploring their options, yeah their list is going to be a little more mainstream focused.

 

I think it pays to look at average vote and movement from 2006 as well as actual placement.

 

Edit: CapitalT, that Eddie write-up was great stuff man.

[The Man in Blak]

If I remember the stats shown for the ballots/average of the Top 10, the #9 guy had the lowest number of ballots, but the highest average ranking: I'm thinking that could be Lawler.

 

I'd like to see Jumbo or Kobashi outside of the Top 10, but it's probably going to end up being someone like Liger.

[soup23]

With Eddy dropping, the remaining top 11 were all within my top 16 and if Lawler were to drop at #11 ( I had him 16), then the top 10 would all be comprised for my top 13 which I am happy about.

[bradhindsight]

My vote is Jumbo goes at 11.

[El-P]

 

 

It wasn't so much about nationality as it was brand loyalty to a company, and that has absolutely fallen out of style. And good riddance.

 

Oh yeah, there's absolutely no Memphis loyalty, not at all.

 

When only Lawler and Dundee make the top 100, there isn't.

 

 

It's not like there were any other Top 100 worthy candidates over there. Wait, yes, Eaton and Dutch Mantell, both of whom I voted for.

[InYourCase]

Lawler will be at #11 because he never worked All Japan.

Shouldn't make the top 10 because he just wasn't that good.

[El-P]

Lawler will be at #11 because he never worked All Japan.

 

He worked New Japan and had a bad match with Tatsumi Fujinami.

[El Boricua]

I totally agree with Dylan about the Lucha stuff but it doesn't surprise me as Lucha even with the most ardent of fans like myself and other WON HOF voters can't come to a consensus to get guys elected, I totally figured that in this project there would be a lot of disconnect among the Lucha "novices" or people that just didn't give a shit.

 

Both you and Dylan have touched upon one of the three things that have "irked" me about the results (although a more precise and honest term is disappointment due to my personal viewpoints).

 

When El Hijo del Santo placed where he did, I suspected that Casas was going to drop soon after. Setting aside Rey Mysterio Jr. and Eddie Guerrero (whose roots are definitely lucha but whose resumes go beyond just their work in Mexico), no wrestler whose case is based on their career in Mexico made the top twenty. And, that's actually a plausible result. Lucha is a style that developed differently from the U.S style, being more theatrical and culturally based. Someone who's used to the U.S style or Japan heavyweights, watching lucha is a definite change from what they are used to. Not everybody will like it, and that's fine. After all, I'd say the majority of us watch wrestling for the entertainment, fun and emotional roller coaster it can provide, so trying to watch something that feels like chore makes one question why even bother with it.

 

But in the abstract, and this goes in line with what Dylan was mentioning, it's hard to explain the results of the list to someone in general terms and not make it sound weird. A style that has had an established national company for more than 80 years, with the history and influence it has had across all of Latin America, has not produced a top twenty wrestler in all that time. Yet, three men who were direct contemporaries in Japan, who constantly wrestled with and against each other, are in the top twelve. And in the abstract it seems off, but if I'm being honest, it's a valid and explainable result when you dig into the context. Lucha is a style with it's pitfalls for entry if you are coming into it cold and the results reflect this.

 

Ultimately, this list is a guide. For those that have no idea about the different styles, regions or wrestlers that are on it, the list represents an opportunity to maybe seek out something they had no idea was out there. For those that weren't able to get to certain styles, regions or wrestlers in their viewing, or who weren't able to probe deeply enough to their liking in order to form a personal opinion they were comfortable with (full disclosure, I fall into this group), the list represents a suggestion of maybe where to look at next. And for those who gave it a try and formed an opinion (either that they liked or didn't like what they were viewing), kudos for daring to go beyond your usual comfort zone and giving something else a try. Regardless of what your thoughts were, your opinion is part of the list and just as valid. Hopefully you'll continue giving other styles, regions and/or wrestlers a fair shot and maybe you'll find something new to you that speaks to you as well as what you are used to.

 

Hopefully the last reveals will be just as fun as the process so far.

[El-P]

 

Lawler will be at #11 because he never worked All Japan.

Shouldn't make the top 10 because he just wasn't that good.

 

 

Yeah, this. My vote for Lawler is pretty low too (in the "not that great but I still like him and want to represent him" category).

[InYourCase]

 

Lawler will be at #11 because he never worked All Japan.

 

He worked New Japan and had a bad match with Tatsumi Fujinami.

 

I like this answer much more than mine.

[Coffey]

Jumbo, Liger, Rey, Flair, Funk, Lawler, Hansen, Misawa, Kobashi & Kawada gotta be the top 10, yeah?

 

My guess for #11 is Daniel Bryan.

[El-P]

No. Bret will be.

[The Man in Blak]

Jumbo, Liger, Rey, Flair, Funk, Lawler, Hansen, Misawa, Kobashi & Kawada gotta be the top 10, yeah?

 

I would be stunned if Bryan missed the Top 10. Then again, I think he's the only guy that could give Flair a run for his money at #1.

[goc]

 

Lawler will be at #11 because he never worked All Japan.

Shouldn't make the top 10 because he just wasn't that good.

 

If only he'd done more flips and head drops.

[El-P]

I had Eddie at #44. His WCW stuff was more irregular than what I remembered, whith great stuff but also pretty passable stuff (especially in 99 after he came back from injury). His ECW legendary series with Malenko is some of the more souless overrated stuff of the 90's and the infamous Eddielenko sequence has become the model for stupid sequences with people kicking out of their own pin attempts. His WWE stint had some great stuff, and some not so great stuff. His carry job of JBL is nothing short of a miracle though, to the point some people still believe JBL had anything to do with the fact this match was terrific. So yeah, not as much of a fan as I was before.

[GOTNW]

Eh I thought the Fujinami/Lawler match was really good. Finish kind of sucked but what can you do.....80s.

[fxnj]

I love Eddie but he is definitely a case of people seeing the level he was working at his last few years and just assume he was at that level the rest of his career while only watching the Halloween Havoc 97 match.

[goodhelmet]

Guess podcast bias was creeping in as listening to all of the GWE pods, almost everyone had Tenryu ahead of Jumbo so I expected the same result on the overall list.

 

On my podcast I did with Boricua, I had Jumbo ahead.

[Badlittlekitten]

I like Eddie but it was always for the parts rather than the whole. His stuff looks great yet to me it feels like he's going through the motions, from spot to spot. Didn't think he was particularly good in Mexico though, admittedly, I despise Art Barr which doesn't help matters. He started to get it in 97. Had him at 59.

[Graham Crackers]

Eh I thought the Fujinami/Lawler match was really good. Finish kind of sucked but what can you do.....80s.

The problem was that Lawler should have defended the title in Mexico against Rayo de Jalisco instead. Would have been a better fit.