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Grimmas

Reactions to the List: 10-1

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I actually had Misawa at number four. I first discovered AJPW/NOAH in 2006 and Kobashi was the first guy to stand out. Kawada replaced him as my favorite when I first discovered the ditch and made my way through the 90s footage. I wouldn't really revisit that stuff until after Misawa's death. Going back I found myself newly drawn to the little details of Misawa's character. Everything felt so much more important when he was present. None of the other pillars got as much out of each other as he got out of them. Watching stuff for the 2000s poll made me really appreciate how he continued to be a spectacular big match worker as his body failed him. He probably would have been number just as high or higher if this was a list of my favorites.

 

EDIT: I also think the gap in ability between him and the other four pillars is higher than others seem to believe. I had Kawada in the 20s and Kobashi, Akiyama, and Taue in the 40s.

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Maybe I'm slightly ahead of the countdown in asking this, but I'm curious. On the podcast Kris and I did I talked about how it's my view that Stan Hansen was the greatest worker in the history of All Japan. I would guess that many people would argue for Jumbo, but I am interestedwhere people would rate the big All Japan names if we were looking SOLELY at their work in All Japan.

 

Just on their work in All Japan?

 

Just for AJPW, I'd go Jumbo, Kawada, Kobashi, Misawa, Hansen, Tenryu then Taue.

 

I'd agree that there is a a perfectly reasonable argument to rate Hansen above Jumbo for their overall careers given the additional points he gets for good work in New Japan, the AWA (though Jumbo has a pair of AWA matches that I like the hell out of), PR and even the WWF.

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I have to say I'm semi-shocked by the way the top five has broken down. As things kept moving forward I thought for sure that Bryan would finish no lower than three, and he seemed to be the most likely by far to have a shot at beating Flair and winning the whole thing.

 

Misawa fishes this high I also find surprising, though in hindsight I shouldn't have.

 

Hansen finishing third isn't a major shock, but the fact that he's behind Funk is.

 

I really thought there was a chance Terry wouldn't even make the top ten. I would never have guessed he'd finish two.

 

I'm off tomorrow so I'll probably have a lot to say about it, but Flair is going to win.

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In a selfish fan way I wanted Bryan to win too.

 

I think this is a pretty appropriate top 4. Given the talk on the boards and hearing some of the lists on podcasts, it is tough to argue with or be surprised by this top four. You have a guy who made his case in Japan, a guy who made his case in America and two guys who made their case in both to varying degrees. All score pretty high on all of the major metrics and all (sans Funk, kinda) have bookended their careers and their case has been made for a while (no recency). Everyone has their detractors and their flaws and this could probably be said about all the top 10, but these are four of the harder guys to argue against as GREAT.

I would say that Misawa didn't as clearly bookend his career because he was still active with no sign of retiring, within I'd say conservatively the next 5 years liberally 10, before his untimely passing so it could be contended that he would have done more to add to or detract from his case which leaves that little bit of open-endedness to his career that the other do not have even-weirdly, Funk who is still wrestling feels like his career is very much concluded because over the past few years it has become very obvious exactly what he can produce with his body completely broken down and it has in no way really effected his over all case.

 

A very odd nit to pick I know but reading your break down made me feel inspired this fine Friday morning

 

Its a good point. I think looking at it that way you are right. I meant it more in the fact that they aren't still building their cases really. Their careers are what they are and we know more or less where they start and where they end. Moreover, they have had some time to sink in and and digest. Hypothetically, yes, there are some "what ifs" left on the table with Misawa, absolutely, and that is an interesting talking point.

 

On a complete side note. One night about 5 years ago in a bar in Syracuse, NY I was chatting with a buddy of mine who is a huge wrestling fan but really only knows mainstream American wrestling is bar tending. He knows I am into more. He was having some argument with a regular about wrestling being dangerous and he remembered me kind of waxing poetic about Misawa after his death (and having to back out of his ROH show in NY at the last minute-one of my few regrets in life). So he comes over and he asks me what happened to "that guy" and invited me into the conversation. I don't normally like to talk about wrestling with non wrestling fans, but sometimes when I am drunk someone draws me out into a conversation and when they do I don't really hold back. I spent the next hour explaining how the All Japan Style and years of sacrificing to be one of the absolute best killed him (one way or another). The poor bastard had to sit there and listen to me carry on about the greatness of the pillars and All Japan 90s wrestling for probably 45 minutes and all he was saying was a version of "wrestling is fake".

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Strange that eight people who voted for Misawa didn't vote for Kawada.

 

NOAH fans ?

 

 

As good an explanation as any, I suppose. Misawa doesn't have a huge case based on his NOAH work though, and you would assume someone who dug him in that setting enough to list him would have worked backwards to his AJPW stuff and thus been exposed to Kawada.

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Cool to see Funk ( my #1) and Flair (my #2) make it to the final 2 spots. I hope Funk gets #1 as I thought he is more versatile over the years when trying to decide between him and Flair.

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I'm interested to see if the #1 will have the most #1 votes.

 

Very likely as Flair and Funk are the other two besides Vader that made it onto the most ballots with 148. So it probably came down to who got more Nr. 1 votes.

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Surprised and really happy that Misawa and Funk did so well. I thought for sure Kobashi and Kawada were going to rank ahead of Misawa and that Funk would be at most top 10.

 

Considering the gap between #1 and #2 that Grimmas posted a while back, I think Flair winning is a lock. Then again, I've been wrong about most of the top 20.

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5. Daniel Bryan

Didn't vote for him.

 

4. Mitsuharu Misawa

He was my #1.

 

3. Stan Hansen

He was my #2.

 

 

I hope Terry Funk will be #1. I have him at #4 on my list. I have Ric Flair at #29.

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On a side note who voted Misawa 86? I could almost accept 100 just as a "I hate AJPW" troll vote but who really sized the man up and said "Hmm yeah 86 seems right"? I mean honestly?

 

 

I don't remember my ballot and didn't save it, but that was probably me. I had Misawa, Taue, and Kobashi all in a row pretty far down, because I really do hate the way they wrestle but have to admit they are very good at it. And then they got bumped up a few spots as I remembered some people I wanted to include but wasn't willing to suggest were actually better than those guys. If I had it to do over again, I'd probably stick to my "you know what, fuck 90s AJPW" guns and omit them entirely.

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No I didn't take part in this so I'm just trolling, but my biggest reaction to the top 3 is:

 

USA! USA! USA!

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I ranked Kobashi #1, so no surprise that I think he's pretty great. But how do 6 people that vote for him not vote for Kawada at all? Have no idea what it says about those ballots, the overall process, nothing. Its just mind-boggling.

I would guess they haven't watched a lot of Japan or haven't followed Japan very closely or for a long time. And thus are basing their vote on post split stuff.

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No I didn't take part in this so I'm just trolling, but my biggest reaction to the top 3 is:

 

USA! USA! USA!

Weird, since two if three made the majority if their cases in Japan.

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No I didn't take part in this so I'm just trolling, but my biggest reaction to the top 3 is:

 

USA! USA! USA!

Weird, since two if three made the majority if their cases in Japan.

 

 

By that logic, Bret Hart is American :)

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I see reveal it at 6:05 Eastern. On the Superstation if Grimmas can pull it off.

Steven told me the #1. It's:

 

 

Cox_first.jpg

The reveal has been preempted by a Braves game. Sorry. Maybe next week.

 

 

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