Something to Wrestle with Bruce Prichard

[SomethingSavage]

26 minutes ago, Afro Steel said:

Still digging into the Wrestlemania X-7 show, but the rodeo story reminds me of something I cannot stand about Conrad: He fucking sucks at building off of a lot of Bruce's stories, unless it's low-hanging fruit like asking for a hypothetical Vince response. 

Bruce goes through the whole story about the politics of that rodeo and Conrad's response is to jump right into one of the ad spots. It's not like I need a big back and forth about this rodeo, but it reminded me of how often Conrad does this where he won't even give a one-sentence response to a story Bruce tells. It reminds me of an inexperienced journalist going in with a set of questions and being too naive or "focused" to see opportunities to ask other questions about things that emerge from a conversation/interview.

That's a fair point, and yeah. The inconsistency in his follow-up and lack of it is one of Conrad's worst traits. I still enjoy him as a host for the most part, but there are plenty of instances where he just phones it in and just moves the conversation along from point A to point B.

Conversely, the Sid episode is a good example of Conrad sounding engaged and enthusiastic for every story.

I feel like Sean Mooney is one of the best when it comes to that stuff though. He's casual in his knowledge on a lot of things, but he does his research and always allows the guest to steer the talk. It may not be everyone's bag, but I find it really refreshing whenever I'm able to catch up on some of his shows.

[flyonthewall2983]

On 3/28/2019 at 3:22 PM, peachchaos said:

My thinking too. Seems entirely plausible that a free agent with so many connections would be backstage at the big event.

Even still I think it was more of a common thing for WCW guys to be backstage at WWF shows and vice versa than we think, just that it was kept as hush-hush as possible so nobody got in trouble. Stevie Ray had a nice story about meeting Owen Hart about a year or so before he died, and I can think of a few others too. Bret Hart talked about meeting Flair in 1989, as a guest of Bobby Heenan's. 

[Afro Steel]

22 hours ago, SomethingSavage said:

I feel like Sean Mooney is one of the best when it comes to that stuff though. He's casual in his knowledge on a lot of things, but he does his research and always allows the guest to steer the talk. It may not be everyone's bag, but I find it really refreshing whenever I'm able to catch up on some of his shows.

Probably helps he's got a background in the news industry, so he's better at picking up on those opportunities.

Finished the show. Like the Mania 20 show, not really anything too illuminating. Got a chuckle out of Bruce saying he kept pestering Tazz to add another "Z" to his Taz tattoo in order to "really commit to the gimmick."

And hey, Bix got his question read at the end!

[El-P]

I'm kinda surprised they did not adress at all the racism issue (the stuff he said to Mark Henry) during the Micheal Hayes episode. Nor the fact he's not a favourite of Stephy & HHH. Well, not that surprised. But it's not like there was much to say about Hayes in WWE unless you want to get deep into the creative process of the 00's, which they did not do.

[SomethingSavage]

That sounds like a real bummer then. His creative contributions are really all there is to Hayes' run there. It's not like he was some influential trailblazer for other guys in New York.

Not surprised though. Bruce can only speak on certain things now that he's back in the company in an official capacity.

I recently listened to some of the earlier episodes to get through some gym sessions, and it was somewhat startling to hear the difference in Bruce then versus now. He seemed to be having much more fun with the concept & sounded liberated.

There's no way we would've gotten a lot of those early stories if he'd believed he was getting his job back all along.

[El-P]

Austin 98/99 aka recycling shit we've already discussed to death. Really now ? If anything, a good reminder than most of the Austin vs Mr. McMahon stuff after the Dude Love feud was actually complete trash. It's funny how because something was really popular at the time, it gets romanticized as being good.

[Afro Steel]

That's probably the first episode I've just let sit without listening to any of it. So much of the Attitude Era feels well-covered territory, so I'm not sure why we need even more focus on it, especially when it's about the era's biggest star.

Weren't they supposed to do a Bundy episode? I remain disappointed how much of Bruce's earliest WWF years slip under the radar.

[SomethingSavage]

7 hours ago, El-P said:

Austin 98/99 aka recycling shit we've already discussed to death. Really now ? If anything, a good reminder than most of the Austin vs Mr. McMahon stuff after the Dude Love feud was actually complete trash. It's funny how because something was really popular at the time, it gets romanticized as being good.

I did a complete rewatch of the 97/98 Raws back around 2015. And yeah. 97 still holds up strong for the most part. But there's a significant dropoff sometime after SummerSlam 98.

The initial introduction of Mr. McMahon is still incredibly interesting and fresh in its original context. Corporate stooge Dude Love is tremendous fun, too. But the convoluted Taker/Kane backstory bogs things down at the top that summer.

Plus everyone suddenly starts acting like Austin. Swearing and being allowed to put your hands on the boss becomes this commonplace thing. And the moment that is no longer reserved strictly for Stone Cold, I'd argue, is the beginning of the shark-jumping.

It's gradual, for sure. But you can definitely feel the shift. But you're right. Things remained so crazy hot and popular for much, much longer beyond that.

If you're looking to revisit any of that stuff though, the critical peak really runs from March 97 to August 98.

50 minutes ago, Afro Steel said:

That's probably the first episode I've just let sit without listening to any of it. So much of the Attitude Era feels well-covered territory, so I'm not sure why we need even more focus on it, especially when it's about the era's biggest star.

Weren't they supposed to do a Bundy episode? I remain disappointed how much of Bruce's earliest WWF years slip under the radar.

Agreed. I really wish they'd stay far away from the Attitude Era stuff for a good, long while now. It's been done to death.

I'd definitely like to hear more from the Saturday Night's Main Event era.

[El-P]

3 hours ago, SomethingSavage said:

If you're looking to revisit any of that stuff though, the critical peak really runs from March 97 to August 98.

Yeah, this would be my timeline too, although I would probably go from around Rumble 97, really, for the unravelling of the world title scene and the Austin vs Bret feud putting itself together. SummerSlam 98 is the end of the road, indeed.

A Bundy episode would probably not be that interesting. He was gone pretty much as soon as Bruce got in, and his 94 stint was nothing.

[SomethingSavage]

I see your point, but woof. Those early 97 Raws did very little for me. Not a lot to offer, things were still in disarray, and nothing really kept me invested week to week.

It wasn't until the fallout of Final Four that the storytelling truly stepped up & they started to latch onto ideas with a firmer grip.

The crybaby Bret meltdown, Austin's talking head popping up on the Titan Tron to spew venom & talk shit at BOTH Bret and Shamrock, the LOD and Ahmed combining forces to go all Walking Tall on the Nation, etc. all really had a way of hooking me and reeling me back into that sweet nostalgia spirit.

Shit. If I had that kind of free time anymore, I'd go back and watch some of 97 again right neowww.

[PeteF3]

The post-Rumble '97 Raw is terrific, really the first Raw of the new era, even though it's under the old set.

[Strummer]

I agree that post Summerslam 98 is tough for Raw.  I was sick of Undertaker and Kane at that point already and wanted Austin to move on to something different.  Looking back there really was no one else for him to feud with unless they went back to Foley or rushed .Rock or HHH

 

[Dooley]

I have a feeling that we may see more of the "big name's big year" episodes as the show possibly winds down.

[El-P]

Anyone listened to the JBL episode ? I have zero will to do so, not willing to put myself through Brucie defending his pal through the bullying stuff, the flat main event stint that came from basically being there forever and all this stuff.

[SomethingSavage]

Hated it at the time, but JBL's 2004-2005 has really grown on me in hindsight.

Yeah, I'm that guy.

I might actually check out this episode soon. I've been letting most of my wrestling podcasts build up for awhile now, instead listening to music & other pods through my commutes & gym sessions. I like to mix shit up to avoid burnout with these things.

Have I missed much with the Mania series? All these recent episodes (since Bruce went back to the big dance, basically) look fairly short in length. And while I have no problem with that, I generally stick with shows around the 2hr and 30min mark(+) to get me through most stuff. It's just easier to put something on without having to think about it.

Anyway, yeah. It sucks that the quality of the show took such a downturn there right before I stopped listening so regularly. But I'm happy Bruce got back to his dream gig. Good on him. You can tell that was always his desire, and he didn't exactly hide it.

But some of those early shows sure were fun. 'Member when he showed zero reservation in telling McMahon stories? 'Member when he read the ad spots in various gimmick voices - from Dusty and Piper and Funk to Warrior and Demolition Smash and Savage? 'Member when he did the entire WrestleMania 6 opening spiel in Vince voice? Good times.

Those last few shows were pretty rough and gave me the impression he was pretty dialed out, for the most part. Here's hoping he gets back to having some fun with it though.

[SomethingSavage]

Well, I know it won't be for everybody's tastes - but I freaking loved the JBL episode this week. It felt like a real rare return to form. Bruce was in full storyteller mode, and that's Prichard at his best for me.

There are some slumps in the show, to be fair. And they all revolve around Conrad getting into his usual flow of reading results, rattling off a bunch of stuff all at once. But anytime he pauses & pitches to Bruce for a tale, it's super fun stuff.

And yeah. Bruce is a bit overprotective & defensive of Bradshaw, but come on. You HAD to know there'd be some of that going in, so I ain't mad at it.

The story about why Bruce felt like "Bradshaw" should be Justin Hawk's WWF name was weird. It just goes to show that inspiration comes from all sorts of silly outside shit.

The Taka/Yakuza story was tremendous, too. I fucking love the idea of Taka playing along to kayfabe the locker room. It ranks right up there with Tajiri pretending he doesn't speak English.

I cracked up at the story about Chyna at the airport also. "What a heel!" And Bruce is absolutely right on this one. I don't care who you are - when the average everyman sees somebody pull out hand sanitizer IMMEDIATELY after shaking their hand, they're walking away with that impression in mind. What a dick.

Legitimately laughed my ass off at hearing about Chavo Classic suggesting that JBL "get color" on his mom.

"Hey, Mom. You can take the clothesline, right? Maybe just the boot? How about the boot, Ma?"

On Mother's Day! Simply glorious.

I mentioned how I appreciate and even admire the JBL title reign experiment so much more in hindsight, and that's true. But even just hearing about it again here reminded me just how committed everyone was to making it work. Eddie was motivated to make it work. Bradshaw was all in. Bruce was determined. Vince felt like it was make or break time.

Compare & contrast JBL's reign of terror to Hunter's from the same time frame, and there's no question in terms of quality. On one side, you've got Bradshaw heeling it up - stirring up real heat, striking raw nerves and picking at real issues with fans. The guy was determined to connect and elicit a response.

On the other side you've got Hunter, who is like this inbred, mutated, deformed amalgamation of five different main event acts or something. He isn't fully committed to being any ONE thing, because he so badly & desperately wants to be EVERY thing all at once. He's trying to be hard-nosed Harley cosplaying as cocky, cool Naitch underneath a coat of witty, comedic Rock wrapped in a layer of asskicker Austin. It's utterly fucking ridiculous.

So yeah. I certainly didn't feel the same way when it was happening in real time. In fact, I remember really hating the JBL push of doom as it unfolded. But fuck me running. I dig it in retrospect. He was a MUCH better heel than Hunter in that role.

I know people will criticize Bruce for his stance on the Blue Meanie stuff (and possibly the Public Enemy deal), but I'm not going to go into it. I'll just say it wasn't a good look, but it's exactly how I expected Prichard to respond.

I *did* enjoy Conrad calling him out on the idea that these guys have an unspoken trust to take care of one another though. So at least there was that.

And Bruce did admit that it was really tasteless when JBL pulled the goosestepping stunt in Germany.

I don't expect that too many of you will enjoy the show as much as I did, mostly due to Bruce's defensiveness over some of those bullying situations (and the way he attempted to dodge the Joey Styles deal). But I did my best to overlook them, because the stories all around them are rich and highly entertaining.

Bruce hasn't been this good or this dialed in for a long while. So I'll take the good with the bad.

As far as JBL goes, I really enjoyed listening to him on Sean Mooney's podcast awhile back. And he does come across as a smart, positive, well-adjusted guy. But hey. I've lived my entire life in SETX/SWLA, so the whole football fraternity stereotype is a staple around here. The bullying thing looks pretty overblown to me, for the most part. But I think I may have thicker skin when it comes to that sort of stuff.

[SomethingSavage]

Almost forgot - there was one thing I hadn't fully wrapped my head around when I was listening to the show, and I'm still undecided as to what it actually meant.

When discussing the Judgment Day 2004 title match, Conrad asks Bruce for Vince's reaction to the massive blood loss by Eddie. Bruce says Vince hated the gusher blade job and said it "put the sympathy in the wrong place."

"That's not the sort of sympathy we want."

Bruce doesn't really elaborate on the point, but it got me wondering what Vince might have meant by that. How would you guys interpret it?

I only really raise it as a point because I'm always fascinated by what gets over with Vince - and particularly what he views as a great wrestling match versus one that doesn't achieve what it set out to do.

So yeah. Thoughts on that statement? And specifically, thoughts on WHERE Vince saw the sympathy being directed, if not fully in support of a bleeding-half-to-death Eddie in peril?

[fakeplastictrees]

If I had to guess what Vince was thinking, I believe he might have thought the blood made fans think WWE made Guerrero bleed or that the blade job went bad and the fans would feel bad about a blade job gone wrong. This is of course is going under the assumption that Vince thinks that all smart fans can't/won't get into a angle, wrestler, storyline, etc. without thinking and/or blaming Vince and WWE.

[El-P]

I beg to differ about the JBL podcast. Of course, Prichard is a close friend, so it's not like he was gonna be honest about anything here. But to me he really, really came off like the con-man he's been described by, well, pretty much everybody. So, JBL being a bully ? Nope. Nothing at all. Nothing there. Rumours and innuendo. The PE debacle ? Just business. The Blue Meanie debacle ? It ain't a ballet, they are fine now. Being punched out by Joey Styles ? Well, they never said a word about that, it was just another night out with JBL. Dirt-sheet don't know shit etc... Ok. Also, I thought Conrad's stance of "I treat people like they treat me and my family" quite hypocritical. So I can be an asshole and a dirtbag in my locker room and treat people with no pull like pieces and crap and haze then to no end, but if I'm nice to your kids, that makes me a good person ? But anyway, that was to be expected. Only the Germany deal got some real discussion, but then again, JBL's "excuse" in the media back them was basically "It's entertainment, it's the fault of internet sheet-readers." For a guy who used to work in Germany when he was young, he displayed amazing ignorance.

Also, if I remember correctly, it's not like the JBL reign set the world on fire. I remember rather dead crowds, dull, mediocre matches. And apparently, the PPV numbers weren't very good either (it was even alluded, only once, by Conrad). Only the Guerrero feud was really memorable, and that was pretty much Guerrero working his magic. The idea that Cena winning his first world title from JBL "made Cena" is pretty laughable. It was a mercy killing at this point.

Also, it really came off apparent how unremarkable JBL's entire stint was in term both of memorable storylines or matches. I always thought the APA were insanely overrated, and going through the results here, there' nothing that hit your as "Well, yeah, that one was really special."

Anyway, a few fun stories thought, especially the Shamrock telling him to put a hold on him. Most clever line of the night was Conrad talking about the mini-Undertaker. "I need to find where this guy is. I have a booking for him.", which was no-sold by Brucie.

[El-P]

4 hours ago, fakeplastictrees said:

If I had to guess what Vince was thinking, I believe he might have thought the blood made fans think WWE made Guerrero bleed or that the blade job went bad and the fans would feel bad about a blade job gone wrong.

Yeah, to me I think he meant the audience would get sympathy for the actual person and not the character. 

[flyonthewall2983]

I completely forgot he was in a tag team with Terry Funk for a little bit in 98. 

[Pterois]

8 hours ago, El-P said:

Also, I thought Conrad's stance of "I treat people like they treat me and my family" quite hypocritical. So I can be an asshole and a dirtbag in my locker room and treat people with no pull like pieces and crap and haze then to no end, but if I'm nice to your kids, that makes me a good person ?

I agree with Conrad' stance, if someone is nice with me and the people I care, I don't care if he's a dick with others people. As far as the scandal in Germany is concerned, I don't see the problem. If Bradshaw was a face, I understand why it would bother people, a face is not supposed to do nazi salutes. But he was a heel, it makes a humengous difference ! It's a good way for a heel to get heat. Why do people find normal to see nazi salutes in a movie and not in a wrestling show ? Wrestling isn't real, it's a scenario for god's sake !

I find compelling the JBL PPV matches during his title reign. The match with Taker at summerslam 04 is the only one until the last one that sucks. The match with The Undertaker from No Mercy is pretty compelling, the finish is amazing. The Sseries match with Booker T is great. I rate ****1/2 The 4-way between him, Booker T, Eddie Guerrero and The Undertaker from Armageddon. The triple threat between him, Angle and Show from Rumble 05 is solid. The cage match with Big Show from NWO 05 is pretty compelling. Finally, the Wrestlemania match with Cena sucks.

[El-P]

Well, if a friend of mine acts like a dick to someone I don't know for no good reason, I'm gonna call him on his bullshit.

As far as the fucking nazi salute, I don't even get why it needs an explanation. A live pro-wrestling show is not a movie. Bradshaw is not an actor playing the character of a nazi in a movie dealing with that time period. He's a pro-wrestler in front of real people. He's some Texas dickhead doing the fucking Nazi salute in Germany because he thinks that's "getting heat". It's like saying him doing a Klan salute or whatever of that ilk in Alabama would be ok because he's a heel. Just a no no.

[C.S.]

10 hours ago, El-P said:

I always thought the APA were insanely overrated, and going through the results here, there' nothing that hit your as "Well, yeah, that one was really special."

Well, there was a pretty amazing APA-Public Enemy match on, I think, Sunday Night Heat.

It wasn't amazing for the traditional reasons though.

[El-P]

Yeah, amazingly embarrassing, as was Bruce's "explanation". Even Conrad had to slip in "Aren't you supposed to take care of the people you work with ?". So what if PE didn't want to do this or that spot ? Toxic jock bully mentality.

The one thing I found interesting is that, without really admitting to it, Bruce actually painted the picture of Bradshaw not being that tough of a guy, which is often the case with bullies.