WON HOF 2016

[Childs]

One other semi-bright note, Fujiwara actually did okay. Not well enough to suggest he'll ever be elected but well enough to indicate how stupid it was that he wasn't on the ballot.

[Matt D]

I didn't know 48 PWO people had ballots.

[shoe]

The Arn/Tully with JJ is a really odd pairing. Do u ignore their NY run? All of JJ's runs elsewhere ? Tully's Houston and SWCW run

[shoe]

I didn't know 48 PWO people had ballots.

Where did you get that number?

[El Boricua]

The Arn/Tully with JJ is a really odd pairing. Do u ignore their NY run? All of JJ's runs elsewhere ? Tully's Houston and SWCW run

 

I'd wager that they wanted it to be The Four Horsemen but Flair's already in. Since you can't have the double inductee, this is the closest combination you could realistically nominate that excludes Flair (which still makes it weird since you are excluding a fourth member of the Horsemen). Arn and Tully weren't a tag team for that long of a period, and the last year they were together was with Heenan instead of Dillon.

[Matt D]

 

I didn't know 48 PWO people had ballots.

Where did you get that number?

Fujiwara.

[NintendoLogic]

To me, the no-double-inductees rule is the most indefensible aspect of the WON HOF. If the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame had that rule, Led Zeppelin would be ineligible for induction because Jimmy Page was already in as a member of the Yardbirds.

[Luchaundead]

 

 

I didn't know 48 PWO people had ballots.

Where did you get that number?

Fujiwara.

 

I died

[RyanClingman]

 

The issue isn't Sting in a vacuum, but rather Sting on the heels of rules changes designed to help get modern era candidates in, last years results, et. To me Sting represents the utter rejection that research matters at all, as he is the ultimate perception v reality candidate. I don't know if I will continue to send in a ballot or not, but my days of focused research based around the WON HOF are likely over. It's a complete waste of time and effort, and I have too many interesting and rewarding projects going on to burn my time on it.

Do you think there's an argument that Sting's influence case has grown? I'm not saying I agree with it, and if I had a vote I wouldn't vote for Sting, but there's a certain aura around him that has grown in recent years. He's looked at as a legend by a large subject of mainstream wrestling fandom. There's a certain influence that he has. I don't think it sniffs Bryan's influence, or Punk's for that matter, but there's something there.

 

 

I know that this isn't your argument, but I think that the idea of "aura" is used far too often when discussing the Observer Hall of Fame. I hear this brought up when discussing some of the modern candidates in particular -- Brock Lesnar and Shinsuke Nakamura for example. Whilst certainly not always the case, I think that some people use points regarding "aura" and "presence" as smoke screens for the lack of concrete hall of fame credentials of these candidates. Take Brock Lesnar for example, before he was inducted I heard his presence brought up in debates repeatedly, but fans certainly seem to react to Lesnar above most others on the (terribly booked) roster this didn't seem to do much for him as far as living up to his price-tag, elevating anyone else on the roster, or producing compelling in-ring content was concerned.

 

Also, shameless plug for an article I wrote on the 2016 HOF.

[elliott]

I'm rewatching the phenomenally great 9/10/88 Puerto Rico show and thinking about potential WON HOF candidates from Puerto Rico. Based on very limited knowledge, it seems like Hugo Savinovich would be a really strong candidate in the non-wrestler category. I know it took forever for Colon to make it in and guys like Abby & Brody who are in made a big impact in Puerto Rico, but I just think its weird watching a bunch of footage and seeing enormous crowd after enormous crowd that are hotter than any other crowds in wrestling has only one full timer in the hall of fame. We all know the HOF is pretty whack, but its a great excuse for Boricua to teach us all about Hugo Savinovich. It seems like he wore a lot of different hats in an obviously successful promotion. He does spanish & english commentary. I don't know how involved he was in production, but he seems pretty involved. I'd like to know more about that if possible. He has the awesome El Profe match so he looks like a good worker. I just don't know how often he actually worked.

 

Teach me about Hugo.

[Hawkeye12]

Hugo took a chair shot and bladed at a Wrestlemania as an announcer, that's enough to get my vote for any Hall of Fame!

[El Boricua]

I'm rewatching the phenomenally great 9/10/88 Puerto Rico show and thinking about potential WON HOF candidates from Puerto Rico. Based on very limited knowledge, it seems like Hugo Savinovich would be a really strong candidate in the non-wrestler category. I know it took forever for Colon to make it in and guys like Abby & Brody who are in made a big impact in Puerto Rico, but I just think its weird watching a bunch of footage and seeing enormous crowd after enormous crowd that are hotter than any other crowds in wrestling has only one full timer in the hall of fame. We all know the HOF is pretty whack, but its a great excuse for Boricua to teach us all about Hugo Savinovich. It seems like he wore a lot of different hats in an obviously successful promotion. He does spanish & english commentary. I don't know how involved he was in production, but he seems pretty involved. I'd like to know more about that if possible. He has the awesome El Profe match so he looks like a good worker. I just don't know how often he actually worked.

 

Teach me about Hugo.

 

Alright, let's talk about Hugo Savinovich. I actually searched some threads to find some stuff I wrote in 2013 (man how time flies!), revise and add to it, and put it all in one post. Back in 2013, Dylan asked me about who from Puerto Rico I thought could be a viable candidate for the WON Hall of Fame. I answered that after Carlos Colon (and setting aside Invader 1 due to the obvious reason), i actually thought that Hugo Savinovich was next in line as a strong candidate for consideration. Time has not dissuaded me from that opinion at all. Most of you reading this are likely familiar with Hugo from his role as WWE Spanish commentator for a very long stretch of time. But if his lengthy stint as a Spanish Jim Ross is how you know him, you are missing such a huge part of who Hugo Savinovich is and what he's done in his career.

 

A brief intro about Hugo. He is originally from Ecuador and, according to him, wanted to be a wrestler from the age of 5 when he first saw El Santo. He would eventually move to the Bronx and there, at the age of 14, he trained to be a wrestler. He has said wrestling saved his life since he was getting involved in gangs and wrestling pulled him away from that path. Among his teachers were Toro Maldonado and Johnny Rivera (the future Invader 3). He eventually made his way to Puerto Rico and wrestled for Arturo Mendoza's wrestling promotion (a rival promotion to Capitol Sports in the 70's) as a tecnico. Eventually, Mendoza had to close up shop and leave, but not before sending Hugo over to Capitol Sports. From there, Hugo would serve as a wrestler and as the top heel manager due to his mic skills. He had a penchant for flamboyancy and self-promotion that gained him his most famous ring name, "El Muñecazo" ("The Big Baby Doll"). He would dress flamboyantly and even use glitter. He would also be known as "La Ferreteria Ambulante" ("The Walking Hardware Store") because he would have all sorts of foreign objects hidden on his person that he would use in matches and to help out his charges.

 

Before getting further into Hugo's trajectory, there are a few details of how Capitol Sports Promotions (CSP) would present their shows that I should mention so as the importance of Hugo's roles is understood. The dynamic for the promotion was usually faces (for the most part native Puerto Ricans, with some foreign allies sprinkled in) against invading foreigners. That was more or less the basic formula from the start of the promotion. What's interesting is that native Puerto Ricans were usually not heels. Those that were, were almost always under a mask and billed of unspecified origin (ex. Invader when he first appeared, The Medicos, etc.). Rosters would be small, around 10-14 wrestlers who worked the house shows (with some additional jobbers for TV). You're only consistent roster members were those that had established residence in Puerto Rico (be it native or foreigner). With the semi regular churn of foreigners who did not speak Spanish, two roles were very important for the TV shows: Show host/presenter/interviewer and the heel manager.

 

In the case of the show host, the role included:

- Be the constant presence, the glue of the TV show broadcast

- Inform fans of events and news and hype them (think Event Center or Update with Mean Gene)

- Conducted interviews and would translate where needed

- Usually doubled as announcer for big shows

- Was the voiceover person for the house show card ads

 

Basically, think of Lance Russell in Memphis and you get the idea of the role. The one additional detail is that the show host was also typically the show's producer during this time. For example, Rickin Sanchez's production company was in charge of the show and he served the role of host (he's the man in glasses you see conduct those desk interviews with the wrestlers about upcoming cards in the 82-83 shows). He served in this role from the company's inception until late 1984.

 

The other important role is that of the heel manager. This person would basically serve as the anchor for the heel side, since the heel side usually featured foreigners who would come in for a run and then leave (although a few would come back with some regularity). These heel managers were usually active or semi-active wrestlers, and because of the small roster size they were called upon to get in the ring on a somewhat regular basis to fill out the cards. Basically, the heel manager would:

 

- Provide the promotion with a stable heel anchor and provide a sense of continuity to the heel side

- Serve to help introduce the newcomers to the territory by hyping them up when they arrived ('this is my new weapon to take out so and so'), which allowed them to gain instant heat or feuds due to being aligned with said manager. (Ex. Jason arriving as Chicky's new hired gun to take out his hated rival Invader 1)

- Serve as the mouthpiece for the heels or translate for those that did their interviews if needed

- When the heels are only coming in for a couple of dates per month, the heel manager is the one that has to keep the feud alive either via promos or getting in the ring. (Ex. Chicky when Hansen was not around during the Colon/Hansen feud)

- If a heel left abruptly, the heel manager could easily pick up the feud and have the heat put on him (Ex. When Manny Fernandez left soon after Invader 3's injury, credit for masterminding the attack was taken by Chicky to continue the feud).

 

Barrabas was the first to really develop the role of the heel manager for CSP. When Hugo first arrived to CSP in 1978 at 19 years of age, after wrestling for Arturo Mendoza's promotion on the west coast of the island as a tecnico, his mic skills caused the office to make him a heel manager. His first two charges were Kendo Kimura and Hiro Sasaki. This highlights the role the heel manager had of being both the mouthpiece and getting across the storyline points for the heels who didn't speak.

 

His third charge would be none another than a debuting Abdullah the Butcher. It is well known that the Carlos Colon and Abdullah the Butcher feud is what really pushed the promotion forward in the late 70's and from there onwards. What gets forgotten is that Hugo was a key player in this feud, since he was Abdullah's manager. He was the one who antagonized the crowd, cut the interviews and pushed the madness that was Abdullah. From 78 through 83, Hugo was one who would bring in Abdullah, whom he called 'mi monstro, mi maquina' ('my monster, my machine') whenever he was attacked or injured by a face to avenge him.

 

To give an idea of how important Hugo was during those years as a manager, here is a list of wrestlers he managed: Kendo Kimura , Hiro Sasaki, Abdullah the Butcher, The Medics (Jose Estrada , Johnny Rodz & Don Kent), The Fabulous Kangaroos, Mr. Fuji, Toru Tanaka, Mr. Pogo, Mitsu Ishikawa, Haru Sonoda, Tamba, King Tonga, Gorilla Monsoon, Buddy Landell, The Mongolian Stomper, Ox Baker, Bob Sweetan, Dory Funk Jr, Terry Funk, Kendo Nagasaki, The Sheik, Bruiser Brody & los Pastores(The Sheepherders: Luke Williams, Butch Miller & Jonathan Boyd who was billed as Jonny Miller). Many of these names were the top rivals of Carlos Colon, the Invaders, Jose Rivera and their allies during those years. Basically, any heel that was to be positioned at the top of the card was usually paired with Hugo.

 

While still serving as manager during the early 80's, Hugo also served as the English commentator for the shows that were sent to air in Trinidad & Tobago, Barbados and the Virgin Islands (places where CSP held shows). As has been mentioned previously, CSP was not just based in Puerto Rico. and during the periods were Hugo would take short sabbaticals from Puerto Rico during those years, he would usually wrestle in other markets such as the Dominican Republic, Panama, Japan (if you know where to look you can find a couple of his matches from an AJPW tour he did in July of 84) and even Amarillo (he apparently won their version of the tag titles in 1980 if you believe Wikipedia). From what i can gather, Hugo had a run as a top heel in the Dominican Republic feuding with Jack Veneno, first as the masked El Hombre Simio and then as himself after being unmasked..

 

As part of the build towards the Universal title cage match between Flair and Colon to end 1983, CSP ran an angle where Hugo was injured by Carlos Colon. By this time, Barrabas had returned to the promotion and was serving as an associate manager with Hugo. While Hugo was out injured, Barrabas staged a coup and took all of Hugo's wrestlers. When Hugo returned,and confronted Barrabas, the fans sided with Hugo and he became a face. He would spend 84 feuding with Barrabas.

 

By late 1984, he became the TV show presenter when a disagreement between Rickin Sanchez and Capitol Sports resulted in Sanchez leaving and his production company no longer producing the TV show. Thus from 84-91, Hugo assumed the roles of TV show host/presenter/interviewer/commentator and also became the behind the scenes producer of the show. Imagine how important each of these roles are individually, now visualize that these roles are all being filled by the same person. Hugo would modify how the TV shows were presented and you can notice how the look and feel of the shows changed simply by viewing the TV matches from 82-83 and how they look from 85 onwards. Also, remember that at its peak in 86-88, CSP was producing three different shows that aired every weekend (Saturday morning show, Saturday evening show and Sunday morning show). In interviews Hugo has mentioned that he is very proud of Aniversario 87, an event he was the producer of and had the complication of occurring at three different locations at the same time. He even donned the tights during this period a couple of times to face off against Eric Embry , El Profe and Billy Joe Travis.

 

Hugo would go to the newly formed AWF in late 91, where he would serve the same roles he had for CSP. A lot of local fans point to Hugo leaving CSP as one of the clear signs of its decline in presentation. The AWF would do well initially, but would eventually collapse due to a bloated payroll and the financial backer dropping out. From there, Hugo would make his way to the WWF and would eventually serve as the Spanish commentator for many years. He would also be involved with the IWA during it's first few years in Puerto Rico, but was not heavily involved after the first couple of years.

 

With Hugo transitioned to the TV host role, other managers were brought in, but none of them lasted too long. Barrabas himself left sometime in 1985. Throughout 85 you had a different dynamic with the top heels. The Sheepherders had a flag bearer, Abdullah was accompanied by someone from JCP (ex. JJ Dillon at Aniversario 85), Eric Embry had Sasha as a valet, but there was no focal heel manager. That would change in 1986 when Chicky Starr stepped into the role.

 

Even now, Hugo remains involved in promoting, working with AAA and also promoting shows in his native Ecuador.

 

If you want to see the original conversation (which also has info on Chicky Starr), you can read it here:

http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/20981-won-hof-2013-discussion/page-56&do=findComment&comment=5574027

 

In summary, I'd say Hugo Savinovich definitely merits being on the ballot.

[SomethingSavage]

Fantastic fucking post, man. Always so informative and in-depth with your contributions here. Kris needs to get you and your exotic frogs back on an Exile podcast & fast.

[elliott]

In summary, I'd say Hugo Savinovich definitely merits being on the ballot.

 

Absolutely fantastic stuff. My first thought after reading this is that Hugo seems to be Jimmy Hart AND Lance Russell in Puerto Rico before going on to become the WWE's Spanish Language Jim Ross. Given the importance of the roles he played he seems like a no brainer not just for the ballot but for the hall of fame.

[Grimmas]

Surprised Young Bucks are not on the ballot yet.

 

Is Kenny Omega in 2019 a first ballot guy?

[InYourCase]

Surprised Young Bucks are not on the ballot yet.

 

Is Kenny Omega in 2019 a first ballot guy?

Bucks aren't old enough.

 

I'm probably the biggest Omega supporter on this site and he is nowhere near being a 2019 first ballot guy unless something changes. I will certainly listen to an argument about Ibushi, because I don't think he's that far off from being deserving of getting in, but Omega is nowhere near as close. In-ring he's not a top 30 guy of all-time, which is when I start looking at guys on getting in on ring work alone. If Mochizuki was on the ballot, I'd vote for him because I think he's one of the 10 greatest wrestlers of all-time.

 

Omega is a draw, and anyone that disputes that is factually incorrect. He sold out Sumo Hall, has the Tokyo Dome number to boost himself, and I believe his run in All Japan did very well at the box office. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am. Regardless, he's not a HOF level draw. By 2019, I feel like his drawing would be his best attribute, but with the way his career is going, who knows.

 

He doesn't have an influence case. He was office for DDT, so I can't give him credit for training their new crop of talent. Wasn't substantial on the US indie scene. I think he's influenced the Young Bucks and Ricochet in their career decisions (staying in Japan, holding out for a better deal), but it's not a widespread influence at this point.

[Grimmas]

 

Surprised Young Bucks are not on the ballot yet.

 

Is Kenny Omega in 2019 a first ballot guy?

Bucks aren't old enough.

 

 

They started wrestling in 2004 though.. that's 13 years in the business, over ten. So they should be eligible?

[Cox]

I think the rule is, 35 years or older with at least 10 years of experience, or 15 years in the business.

[Loss]

And even then, it's 15 years with a major promotion. Rey started in '89, but he didn't put him on until 2007 for that reason. He called it the "Harry Smith Rule", since he started wrestling at 13 or 14 or whatever age it was.

[Cox]

Funny that he named the rule after somebody who will probably never be on the ballot.

[InYourCase]

I forgot about the 15 years in the business. Thought it was just 35+