Comments that don't warrant a thread - Part 4

[Rah]

Well, people still think Mayweather boxes "on the level" despite this not being true for years. I don't for a second think people wouldn't fall for "Hogan/Tyson who'd win?" 

[KinchStalker]

On 11/8/2021 at 1:16 PM, KinchStalker said:

Mach Hayato just passed too. He's an obscure name in the West but the man was a lucharesu pioneer (when I get back to my IWE history posts, I'll discuss him in more detail).

Fuck that, Hayato deserves better from me. I just took to my history thread to post an expanded version of an obit I threw together on Monday for Reddit and a couple Facebook groups.

[strobogo]

I had an idea a few weeks ago about moves that have stupid set ups just to end in a basic move but then ended up forgetting all the moves I had thought of. But it was inspired by the pumphandle powerslam. Just do a powerslam. The pumphandle set up doesn't add any impact or damage whatsoever. 

[Coffey]

The Meltdown was The Truth though when Wrath first started doing it on WCW. I remember marking out pretty hard for that move & his new undefeated streak until he got dominated by Kevin Nash in his build for Goldberg at Starrcade lmao.

[Al]

On 11/13/2021 at 12:14 PM, strobogo said:

I had an idea a few weeks ago about moves that have stupid set ups just to end in a basic move but then ended up forgetting all the moves I had thought of. But it was inspired by the pumphandle powerslam. Just do a powerslam. The pumphandle set up doesn't add any impact or damage whatsoever. 

Wouldn't the difference be that you do one from the front and one from the back? It's probably silly in a wrestling ring but in a real competition that would matter.

[JRH]

Would the Oklahoma Stampede qualify? The way Steve Williams did it, he would get the guy in the powerslam position, slam the opponent's back against a turnbuckle, then finish it.

[El-P]

On 11/13/2021 at 6:14 PM, strobogo said:

 The pumphandle set up doesn't add any impact or damage whatsoever. 

Indeed. But it looks cool. Pro-wrestling is visual. That's what drives me crazy (well, not really but kinda) with all the stupid "lol movez" criticism that should have died sometime in the mid 00's when the meme got old already, back when the DVDVR board was still green. Pro-wrestling is also (and mostly, realistically, as the narratives really are repetitive as fuck and not all that interesting unless you add out of the ring storylines) a visual form, and a dynamic visual form, it's not a painting either. Moves matter. The form of the moves matter. Execution matters. Creativity matters. Inventing new forms of using your body, the body of your opponent, the space you're moving into (inside and outside, and using every element of the space that is the wrestling ring) matters. It's what makes pro-wrestling fun and instills new life into it, always.

Of course some move can look too awkward or too stupid, that happens, especially if you don't find good solution to make them look cool (that damn jumping stunner by Cena for instance), but most pro-wrestling moves are stupid in themselves. Who runs into someone's boot and drops to the floor, and who gets hurt by someone breaking his collarbone while he's kinda dropping the back of his knees onto your throat ? Yeah Hogan, I'm looking at your dumbass offense. Despite its more than iffy physics, the Destroyer is a commonly used move now, and not even a finisher anymore (and why should it be unless someone makes it a finisher again, this is a 15 years old move now, bitching about it is like bitching about a superplex in 1990).

Anyway. Kinda went off the topic slightly, but that's what I do, I rant. 

And yeah, the Meltdown is a big part of what made Wrath look like the coollest mofo in the company for a month or two, before Kevin Nash decided that he had to get over good old Adam Bomb before killing off Goldy.

[sek69]

Yeah that spot in the Lucha Bros/FTR match when Fenix came off the top rope, jumped off the ass of the dude taking the piledriver and cross bodied the other guy probably wasn't the most realistic move ever but it was one of the coolest looking things I've ever seen someone do. 

[C.S.]

This is a fun interview with Jimmy Hart, but man oh man, it is jarring when someone outside the company - the interviewer, in this instance - uses WWE-speak like "sports entertainment" and "WWE Universe."

https://411mania.com/wrestling/411-exclusive-interview-jimmy-hart-wrestlemania-38-ticket-party/

[Dav'oh]

John Cena's "Vacation Friends" > the Rock's "Red Notice".

Don't@me. (In fact, I've probably enjoyed Cena's recent performances more the Dwayne's recent ones.)

[strobogo]

I was trying to think of an analogue for Brock Lesnar being brought back over and over to be a super boss attraction for a decade, a decade since his first dominant run, and I'm thinking it'd be like if Yokozuna was popping up every year for WM and Summerslam runs up to like 2014.

[El-P]

Let him debut as the next member of the nWo first though.

[Laz]

On 11/13/2021 at 11:14 AM, strobogo said:

I had an idea a few weeks ago about moves that have stupid set ups just to end in a basic move but then ended up forgetting all the moves I had thought of. But it was inspired by the pumphandle powerslam. Just do a powerslam. The pumphandle set up doesn't add any impact or damage whatsoever. 

I remember writing up a list of moves and set-ups back in 2008/2009 for an e-fed, and their kayfabe reasoning (as I understood it). Basically, the pumphandle is a means of completely disabling the opponent's usual means of escaping (as an elbow or mere flailing of the arms could dislodge them from a straightforward powerslam) in preparation for the actual impact. This is why Wrath (most notably) would drive them down almost as soon as he got them over his shoulder. This idea (locking their arms) can also apply to most double-underhook/butterfly starts of moves, particularly the piledriver or the powerbomb. 

Realistically speaking, butterfly suplexes are a thing, but the attacker needs to contort their own body in a greater way than a pro wrestler does for, say, a Tiger Driver. Hell, I've been doing manual labor for the bulk of the last 17 years, regularly lifting and manipulating items that weigh upwards of 250 lbs., and I don't see how one could shoot Tiger Driver somebody.

@El-P is spot on with its actual reason, of pro wrestling being a dynamic visual medium. A little sauce in the setup makes the move stand out a bit more.

[The Thread Killer]

5 hours ago, Laz said:

I remember writing up a list of moves and set-ups back in 2008/2009 for an e-fed

Hell yeah. SHOOT Project, bitches!

[Laz]

59 minutes ago, The Thread Killer said:

Hell yeah. SHOOT Project, bitches!

PWA, actually, but I did come back to SHOOT not long after.

[sek69]

1 hour ago, The Thread Killer said:

Hell yeah. SHOOT Project, bitches!

Wow, I just had a legit Obi Wan "that's a name I haven't heard for a long, long time" moment 

[The Thread Killer]

I loved that fed. I miss it. I used to spend far too much time writing for that place. At one point I was even hosting the website.  Most of the guys from that place are still friends and are active in their Discord group. Good times.

[Laz]

It's still around as a Fire Pro sim, same guys running it and a lot of the same roster. There, PWA, and the EWA were some of the best times I had doing that stupid game.

[NintendoLogic]

Going back to the original question, that thing Lance Archer does where he scoops his opponent up and then gently places them down in position for an inverted DDT is the worst.

[Dav'oh]

Wrestlers today would look at the greatest move of all-time - the Triple Lindy - and try to add to it.

 

 

[KawadaSmile]

On 11/16/2021 at 11:01 AM, Dav'oh said:

John Cena's "Vacation Friends" > the Rock's "Red Notice".

Don't@me. (In fact, I've probably enjoyed Cena's recent performances more the Dwayne's recent ones.)

John Cena as the Peacemaker honestly smokes everything The Rock has ever done, in terms of acting. However Dwayne is probably one of the biggest box office names around. The profit for those Jumanji movies is disgusting.

[Sean Reedy]

I've honestly become pretty disconnected with the in-ring portion of pro wrestling over the past 10 years with the proliferation of what was coined here years ago - "The Self Conscious Epic". I'm hitting that grumpy old man phase where it becomes abundantly clear why lucha indies are the best wrestling.

But that all changes whenever Danielson is in the ring. When I watch him nowadays, I feel like I'm watching like 90s Negro Casas level transcendent greatness. He has truly mastered every possible facet of the art form. And with some of his main idols being lucha guys like Blue Panther, we could get another 20 years of this fun. Its just such a pleasure to see him work anyone in any kind of match.

[Rah]

2 hours ago, Sean Reedy said:

I've honestly become pretty disconnected with the in-ring portion of pro wrestling over the past 10 years with the proliferation of what was coined here years ago - "The Self Conscious Epic". I'm hitting that grumpy old man phase where it becomes abundantly clear why lucha indies are the best wrestling.

But that all changes whenever Danielson is in the ring. When I watch him nowadays, I feel like I'm watching like 90s Negro Casas level transcendent greatness. He has truly mastered every possible facet of the art form. And with some of his main idols being lucha guys like Blue Panther, we could get another 20 years of this fun. Its just such a pleasure to see him work anyone in any kind of match.

Can you point me in the right direction? I seem to have run that well dry and all I'm left with is really bad Astrolux matches.

[Laz]

6 hours ago, Sean Reedy said:

I've honestly become pretty disconnected with the in-ring portion of pro wrestling over the past 10 years with the proliferation of what was coined here years ago - "The Self Conscious Epic". 

 

This is why I wish MLW would get its shit together a little more, because Fusion is the perfect antidote to that kinda stuff. There are definitely matches that go too long or have a lot of unnecessary highspots, as is the style, but then they follow those up with stuff that has a more old-school "we are building up to a bigger match" flare. A tag bout between Injustice and 5150 a month or so ago was so refreshing because Injustice got their asses handed to them at every corner, and Danny Rivera is sooooo damn good at making everything he does look good and snug.

But yes, same boat. Danielson makes everything better.

[sek69]

7 hours ago, Rah said:

Can you point me in the right direction? I seem to have run that well dry and all I'm left with is really bad Astrolux matches.

I feel like the best answer here is to just search out Vikingo matches and you'll find some great stuff even it's in some barn looking setup with 20 people in the crowd. 

Lucha indies tend to be a pretty extreme case of hit and miss,  every shows is either a hidden gem or some "the promoters of the show are doing some real The Producers shit here"