Is TNA the worst wrestling promotion in history?

[MoS]

At this point, TNA has been in existence longer than Lebell's SoCal promotion, Shire's NorCal promotion, and, I *think* Mid-South as well

[Ricky Jackson]

12 hours ago, MoS said:

At this point, TNA has been in existence longer than Lebell's SoCal promotion, Shire's NorCal promotion, and, I *think* Mid-South as well

It's not really an apples to apples comparison, as those promotions were part of an evolutionary process over several decades with different promoters in control of the same basic geographical area, catering to the same basic fanbase. LaBelle family promoting in LA was between 1940s-1980s, for example, with Mike's time in control maybe not longer than TNA/IMPACT'S existence, but it's not like he started a brand new promotion when he took over. Watts/Mid South broke away from McGuirk's many-decades established promotion. Shire started a new promotion, but San Fran was a long established wrestling town when he began running shows there. I dont know if you can draw a link from a specific promotion to TNA's founding in 2002, although in it's original from, based on who was involved and where it was based, it was very Tennessee-centric, and with a lot of dying-days WCW to it as well.

All that said, it is very impressive/unbelievable that TNA/IMPACT has made it nearly 20 years. Much longer than ECW, even considering the evolutionary roots of that promotion. The AWA, a mostly fondly-remembered promotion with a lot of history, only lasted 10 years longer (although it evolved from a Minnesota-area wrestling tradition) 

[sek69]

They did a video to close the Impact special tonight announcing FinJuice are coming to Impact. So I guess Don was able to smooth over all the hurt feelings after all. 

[SirEdger]

Yeah, apparently Don & D'Amore flew to Japan to apologize to NJPW management for all the shit that Dixie Carter did. And since NJPW wants the Good Brothers to come back to work in Japan too, that surely helped a bit.

[Memphis Mark]

I have not been paying any attention to wrestling for quite some time.  Sometimes real life gets in  the way. Anyway can someone wise me up to the AEW - Impact deal .  Have the Khans purchased a full or minority interest in Impact ?  The only thing Impact has of value is their video  library . I would guess the Khans would like to purchase  the  TNA library so they would have product to start a streaming service.  Otherwise I cannot see why AEW would even bother with Impact . Impact has been a dead brand for a long time , the only money is in the video library . 

 

 Or is Khan working with Impact for another reason ? If anyone has any insight let me know. Thanks.

[Alucard]

15 hours ago, Memphis Mark said:

I have not been paying any attention to wrestling for quite some time.  Sometimes real life gets in  the way. Anyway can someone wise me up to the AEW - Impact deal .  Have the Khans purchased a full or minority interest in Impact ?  The only thing Impact has of value is their video  library . I would guess the Khans would like to purchase  the  TNA library so they would have product to start a streaming service.  Otherwise I cannot see why AEW would even bother with Impact . Impact has been a dead brand for a long time , the only money is in the video library . 

 

 Or is Khan working with Impact for another reason ? If anyone has any insight let me know. Thanks.

It's a working relationship that allows for some talent swap. Gallows & Anderson get to work AEW with Kenny while being signed to Impact where they will also be able to work New Japan if/when regular travel is an option again. It's also most likely going to allow for Kenny Omega to win the Impact championship to add to his "belt collector" gimmick to go along with the AEW and AAA titles. Tony has pushed an openness to working relationships with anyone which has so far included AAA, NWA, Impact, and seemingly somewhat of a beginning with NJPW. 

so while AEW gets to use Gallows & Anderson, Impact briefly had Private Party w/ Matt Hardy come in and work a few matches. There were plans for Sammy Guevara to work Impact but that fell through. I believe in the future there will be some crossover with the women as well.

[strobogo]

It's been a real loltna engagement considering AEW won't mention anything going on on Impact, haven't even promoted the Kenny vs Swann title vs title match, and the first 3 months had Tony Khan and Tony Schiavone outright burying TNA on TNA's own TV show every week. TNA looks as second rate as ever, AEW looks bad making their new partner look bad, and the only talent AEW is getting out of the exchange is fucking Festus and Karl Anderson shitting up the joint as usual. 

[fakeplastictrees]

Scott D'Amore has come off really bad in all of this. Callis is in business for himself, Khan is the billionaire doing whatever he wants, and Scott D'Amore is just happy to be there and is so honored that AEW is working with Impact. The Swann and Omega press conference is a good example of the D'Amore AEW bootlicking. It's fine to put over another company and its wrestler, but whatever D'Amore and team think they are doing, they are not and they need to stop. I mentioned this in another thread, but the same company that has the LOLTNA history attached to it also has the X Division, the buildup to Steiner vs. Joe, Hogan saving Sting, Paparazzi Productions, James Storm vs. Chris Harris in a Texas Death match, Monty Brown being Monty Brown, Elix Skipper's cage walk, Styles vs. Abyss from Lockdown 2005, etc. Yes, this company has made tons of mistakes and deserves all the shit they have received over the years, but the men representing this company need to get it together and focus on the good stuff. From Impact's perspective, AEW should want to work with Impact. Impact has been around longer, they were once part of the NWA, three legends (Flair, Hogan, Foley) all had their last matches there, Impact has more episodes that Nitro, Thunder, and ECW TV. @strobogo is right. This can't be that hard. I don't like where any of this is going and I hope I am proven wrong.

[strobogo]

I want to say the first episode Kenny was on, there was a backstage segment with Tommy Dreamer telling D'Amore this is exactly what would happen, that AEW was going to use them and make them look bad and move on, and D'Amore was like BRO WE GOT KENNY OMEGA ON OUR SHOW THIS IS GONNA BE GREAT. 

 

And then 4 months later, AEW has completely big leagued TNA the whole time and  TNA looks even lower rent than they did before this started. I really thought Tommy Dreamer was going to weasel his way onto TNT and take a One Winged Angel on thumbtacks, though.

[fakeplastictrees]

Maybe this all has a payoff. Maybe this is Impact acting kind and gracious until one day they decide TK and AEW need to get fucked and reminded that AEW is one of the new players, but Impact is not to be messed with. This would include an Impact 'invasion' of sorts, think along the lines of the Nexus debut, and perhaps the Good Brothers defecting to AEW while Impact talent involved get a little more serious about the AEW association. There are tons of matches to have and lots of characters that would be completely fun to see interact. But the "Oh Geez Golly Shucks" shit has got to go. I feel I am beating a dead horse at this point, but there has to be a method to the madness.

[strobogo]

I think the pay off is probably Moose brings the title back home and it will be barely mentioned on AEW TV and the whole belt collector thing is just some side story that really has nothing to do with anything. Kenny has been MEGA champion for like a year and a half and I think he's brought it to AEW TV twice.

[sek69]

5 minutes ago, strobogo said:

I think the pay off is probably Moose brings the title back home and it will be barely mentioned on AEW TV and the whole belt collector thing is just some side story that really has nothing to do with anything. Kenny has been MEGA champion for like a year and a half and I think he's brought it to AEW TV twice.

To be fair, that's still more than AAA itself pays attention to the title. 

[fakeplastictrees]

I am not sure why AAA just doesn't allow Fenix to run with the belt at this stage in the game. Fenix can do a U.S. Open Challenge gimmick with the belt. Fenix with AAA Mega Champion defenses against guys like Angelico, Jack Evans, Laredo KId, Black Taurus (Impact), Daniels, Kazarian, and Matt Sydal, can easily get 4 months of solid TV/Youtube matches out of the whole deal.

[Migs]

The average age of Impact's audience isn't in a nursing home anymore, so I think they've gotten a lot out of this, even if their ratings haven't jumped. I don't think there's a big payoff coming and I don't think they care.

[El-P]

In the most bizarre "in retrospect" moment I've watched lately, Taeler Hendrix's Gut Check was interrupted by... Joey Ryan. Which honestly was very well done. Considering how things turned out (Hendrix being an accuser of Jay Lethal and Joey Ryan being... well... ), this sequence is pretty odd to watch now.

Also, the Claire Lynch promo the previous week was one of the most hilariously bad shit I've ever seen.

Also, Austin Aries may be a douchebag and has turned into an anti-vaxx idiot, but his stuff at the time was pretty awesome, be it in-ring work or promos and connecting with the crowd. A breath of fresh air after the walk-of-death that has been Robert Roode's neverending reign of dullness and awful finishes. Bruce Prichard certainly made TNA a more focused and organized promotion, but damn the booking was still saturated with terrible, terrible ideas. Yeah, you're "telling a story", but that story kinda sucks. Hogan's first year in the company was a mess, but at least it was funny in a car-crash way.

As it is, I'd say 2011 and the first half of 2012 were basically worse than 2010, which has been pretty much the pattern since 2008 (apart from those few months in late 2009).

[El-P]

The AJ Styles vs Samoa Joe vs Chris Daniels vs Kurt Angle four way ladder match at Hardcore Justice 2012 totally went under the radar before I did my top of TNA matches list. What an incredible ladder match, Daniels being involved in one of the most fun and creative spot I've seen in this setting. TNA MOTY for the year thus far (don't see how anything is beating this). 

Bruce Prichard's booking still sucks though. The women's titles are treated as a joke, Aces & Eights started off ok but after a few weeks already it has jumped the shark as it got repetitive and goes nowhere, with very obvious swerves and no developments in sight yet. The Bound for Glory series is just as bad and incomprehensible as when Russo booked it. 

[El-P]

Bound for Glory 2012 was quite interesting for a few things.

James Storm has the distinction of having probably the best "tag team partners split up and feud" ending matches anywhere. He had the all time classic brawl against Chris Harris, one of the very best match of the 00's and now has a great, show stealing brawl (too) against Bobby Roode, and Roode best single match since he has done the turn (not that hard considering most of his matches have been incredibly dull, Randy Orton-like, thanks to Brucie's brillant vision). He was the charismatic one/good promo in Beer Money and the one who should have been pushed as a main event guy, not the other way around. Roode was game as fuck though, reconnecting with his great bumping self and not afraid to take those tacks bumps like he's Mick Foley. Full credit to both here. Great match.

Speaking about Brucie, it's very obvious that despite making the company better produced and more focused, he just did not get TNA's audience. Two perfect exemple happened on this night, which did not take place in the IMPACT zone but in front of a real audience. Crowd goes crazy for every interactions between Style/Angle and Bad Intentions (Daniels & Kazarian) during the Triple Threat match, but really doesn't care about Chavo Jr. & Hernandez, who have been shot up the spot from basically nowhere. When the crowd feels this is going toward a win for the later, they boo like crazy and when it actually happen, they go mild. And then Chavo cuts this awkward promo where he has to resort to "I did it for Eddie" in a very "Please I beg you to cheer me a little bit" move.

And in the main event, they had Austin Aries kinda turn heelish on Jeff Hardy from nowhere the previous week, probably in fear of what actually happened : crowd being at the very least extremely mixed toward Hardy, with a super vocal pro-Aries crowd. When Hardy wins an overlong match (a staple of Brucie's booking, apparently he loved those Triple H matches) where Aries is doing 95% of the work (and holy shit he was great and did everything in his power to get booed), he gets way more boos, to the extent of even flipping off the crowd before hitting the swanton. TNA was a hardcore pro-wrestling crowd who stayed loyal despite years of shitty booking because they could see people like Styles, Daniels, Joe and now Aries having kick-ass matches, but Aries, by far the most over guy in the company when he ended Roode endless reign of terror and boredom, only got an afterthought of a title reign of a few months, taking a backseat to the pathetic Aces & Eights storyline and serving as transition toward Jeff Hardy, who never did any difference for the company and got rewarded for his "redemption" after embarrassing the company the previous year.

Aces & Eights.... holy shit, this angle is six months old and has overstayed its welcome by about 5 months already, the latest angles and vignettes being Dungeon of Doom level of cringe. Fun trivia though, Leva Bates is the one who sprayed gas in the eyes of Hogan & Sting before they got kidnapped. So, anyway. The first big reveal being Devon was Savio Vega-steps-up-for-Shawn Micheals level of "awwwwww please who gives a fuck". And yeah, I know the stable is gonna be Wes Brisco & Garrett Bischoff and fucking Mike Knox and D.O.C and whatnot and will last a whole fucking year. Fast forward galore are incoming. 

Again, I have no idea why this era of TNA was ever praised. It completely exposes Brucie as a booker, focused indeed but with a poor eye for talent (no, Robert Roode is NOT a main event guy, and certainly NOT for 9 endless months) and tons of really shitty booking ideas, and a pretty terrible booking of women overall, complete with the systematic over-sexualization of Christie Hemme (ahhh, those camera shots panning from her heels up to her miniskirts, but she never actually gets to do the big main events because that's a serious job I guess) and female referee Taryn Terrell being dressed like Sunny in 1998. Brooke Tessmacher gotta get tons of credit though, as she sure worked her ass off (no pun intended), trying her hands at tons of pretty hard lucha-style flying and pretty much overachieving when pushed as the champ (a spot she really had no business being in when you have Gail Kim, Mickie James and Madison Rayne right there, no disrespect).

[El-P]

Austin Aries may be a douchebag and an anti-vaxx idiot, but as a pro-wrestler, he owned TNA in 2012. He owned period. Between the best Jeff Hardy match ladder match I've ever seen (granted, Jeff's performance was impressive too there) and *that* promo on Brooke Hogan, the guy had every aspect of the game down pat. Just amazing to watch.

Funny how Brucie's booking has that absolutely repetitive/neverending aspect to it. After they settled their score once and for all, he still has to put Roode & Storm together for more matches, and of course Storm gets fucked in the process. His inability to see who was the most charismatic of the two is amazing. Also, he has blamed Storm for not being all in on his podcast, but really who can blame Storm when the booking always robbed him of his moment in the end. The Aces & Eight storyline has jumped the shark SO BAD already and it's not even 2013.  

And now it's time for the romance between Bully Ray & Brooke Hogan. That is pretty promising. Although I must say, Brooke is not half bad thus far. Also in retrospect, the idea of Brooke dating someone her father doesn't approve is hilariously ironic. 

[strobogo]

Aces and Eights is when I tuned out for good with TNA. That shit was absolutely atrocious from start to finish.

[El-P]

On 1/23/2022 at 3:08 PM, strobogo said:

That shit was absolutely atrocious from start to finish.

Maybe the worst major TNA angle. No, it has to be, considering there's still almost ONE YEAR of this shit. The good thing is that I can fast forward through shitloads of stuff coming up (let's be real, I'm speedrunning now).

It's interesting in hindsight, when Brucie is the head of creative for the worst era of WWE ever in term of creative to see that indeed, he was shit 10 years before in TNA already. Sure, he made the promotion more focused. The issue is that his ideas are bad, dated and boring. The Bobby Roode (WHY ?) never-ending stretch of main events is unbearable. And then Aces & Eights is lame as fuck and soon begins to be unbearable too as they take more and more importance and time on the shows.

In a way it's worse than Russo's last few years because Russo's stuff could have car crash, so-stupid-it's-funny appeal (like Zombi Angelina Love), plus nothing lasted too long. Brucie likes to drag his stuff for ever and repeats the same matches and combination again and again and again and again, with regular shit finishes. Strikes a bell ?

When Austin Aries got over like crazy as a babyface, it seemed like the company could get interesting, but in a month he had to turn back heel and pass the belt to Jeff Hardy because of course he had, and then all the momentum was lost and we're back to fucking Bobby Roode in main events by the end of the year. Meanwhile, you had AJ Styles & Chris Daniels slithering through shit booking (the Claire Lynch botched angle which was so stupid it's funny, in that case, but wasn't Brucie's idea apparently) to having yet another bunch of terrific matches. And Gail Kim carrying the mostly thrashed women division when called upon it. Joseph Park was the best stuff Abyss ever did, not that it translated into good matches.

No wonder the company finally kinda collapsed in 2013, "carried" (down the gutter) by months of Aces & Eights bullshit and ill-advised "go on the road with a cold product" move. 

So yeah, Brucie's booking of TNA in 2012 = BAD. And the same guy is running WWE creative in 2022 under Vince. Yup...

[Big Pete]

I haven't watched these shows since they aired but from memory fans were patient with Roode's title reign because TNA had finally pushed somebody and given them an opportunity. Blood Money were one of the few teams that fans actually universally enjoyed so watching them get rewarded for their efforts was a refreshing change of pace. It helped pave the way for Austin Aries and suddenly it felt like you had three main event level talents before Bound For Glory happened and ruined all that good-will they had been building.

I can barely remember anything about TNA from here till 2016 other than AJ having the odd quality match.

It may have also been a context thing as well. The WWE was really struggling around this time and the show largely focused on guys like The Big Show, Kane, Tensai/Albert facing off against Cena while the Sheamus and Del Rio get into food fights.

This was also peak-Cornette ROH. I'm talking Pro-American Pro-Authority Davey Richards vs. French Canadian Anti-ROH Kevin Steen in a feud where the fans completely turned on Davey. At least Steen/Davey got to make a Highspots DVD together to hash their 'legit heat' out where they just talked about how out of touch and psychotic Cornette was. This was also the era where they stopped flying the Bucks in, but pushed The All Night Express to a title win nobody wanted only for Kenny King to dip the next night. There was also a PPV where both Rhino and Mike Mondo were featured in title matches and everyone's favourite wrestler QT Marshall also got actively pushed on the show.

At least it opened the door for NJPW, PWG and to an extent Dragon Gate-USA.

 

[El-P]

48 minutes ago, Big Pete said:

I haven't watched these shows since they aired but from memory fans were patient with Roode's title reign because TNA had finally pushed somebody and given them an opportunity.

Yeah. Except it was the wrong guy. No charisma, dreadful boring sub-Randy Orton-like long-ass matches with shit finish *every time*. Bobby Roode was never a main-eventer. The charismatic guy in Blood Money, the guy who could cut a promo and connect was James Storm. Fans were ready for Storm and then they decided to not do the switch for whatever reason, because it's obvious Aries wasn't designed to be the guy at all to finally get the belt off Roode. They just noticed he was getting over as fuck all despite being a heel so they actually gave the him belt, then he had an afterthought of a reign because Aces & Eights was the focus and gotta pass that belt to the ex-WWE guy.

The fact Brucie told in his podcast back in 96 or so that Roode was gonna be a huge star in WWE (he just made the jump to NXT) shows how delusional and out of touch he was. And is, obviously.

48 minutes ago, Big Pete said:

It may have also been a context thing as well. The WWE was really struggling around this time and the show largely focused on guys like The Big Show, Kane, Tensai/Albert facing off against Cena while the Sheamus and Del Rio get into food fights.

This was also peak-Cornette ROH. I'm talking Pro-American Pro-Authority Davey Richards vs. French Canadian Anti-ROH Kevin Steen in a feud where the fans completely turned on Davey. At least Steen/Davey got to make a Highspots DVD together to hash their 'legit heat' out where they just talked about how out of touch and psychotic Cornette was. This was also the era where they stopped flying the Bucks in, but pushed The All Night Express to a title win nobody wanted only for Kenny King to dip the next night. There was also a PPV where both Rhino and Mike Mondo were featured in title matches and everyone's favourite wrestler QT Marshall also got actively pushed on the show.

Damn. I know I was pretty much out of the game back then apart from watching the yearly Mania big matches and I don't remember anything from that period, but it looks deadfull indeed. Kinda crazy when you put things in perspective that TNA was under Brucie and ROH under Corny in the *early 10's* and I wonder why it did not work (yeah, those Young Bucks suck and will never make it, uh Corny) ?  As far as pre-Shield WWE, the less said the better I guess. Lord Tensai, Alberto Del Rio... Holy shit. The Shield saved that company quality-wise for a few years.

[NintendoLogic]

As I recall, Beer Money were incredibly over as babyfaces in 2011. Roode was being built up to win the title from Kurt Angle at Bound for Glory that year, but Hogan had the finish changed at the last minute because he decided Roode wasn't ready, brother. That took a lot of the wind out of his sails. The kicker is that Angle was so badly banged up he ended up having to drop the title the next week...to Storm.

[Big Pete]

3 minutes ago, El-P said:

Yeah. Except it was the wrong guy. No charisma, dreadful boring sub-Randy Orton-like long-ass matches with shit finish *every time*. Bobby Roode was never a main-eventer. The charismatic guy in Blood Money, the guy who could cut a promo and connect was James Storm. Fans were ready for Storm and then they decided to not do the switch for whatever reason, because it's obvious Aries wasn't designed to be the guy at all to finally get the belt off Roode. They just noticed he was getting over as fuck all despite being a heel so they actually gave the him belt, then he had an afterthought of a reign because Aces & Eights was the focus and gotta pass that belt to the ex-WWE guy.

The fact Brucie told in his podcast back in 96 or so that Roode was gonna be a huge star in WWE (he just made the jump to NXT) shows how delusional and out of touch he was. And is, obviously. 

Damn. I know I was pretty much out of the game back then and I don't remember anything from that period, but it looks deadfull indeed. Kinda crazy when you put things in perspective that TNA was under Brucie and ROH under Corny in the *early 10's* and I wonder why it did not work ?  As far as pre-Shield WWE, the less said the better I guess. Lord Tensai, Alberto Del Rio... Holy shit. The Shield saved that company quality-wise for a few years.

Going in, Roode was considered the all-round talent and fans were annoyed that they invested all that time in the Bound For Glory series only to pull the rug out from underneath Roode. The way they justified it made sense, so fans were willing to give it a go, although ultimately yes they wanted Storm to be THE guy leading TNA forward. In hindsight, I would have preferred that being for the title at Bound For Glory than Jeff/Aries. What was the deal with Final Battle 2012? Storm beats Roode and AJ on the previous PPV for a shot, but on the next PPV it's Roode/Hardy?

Yeah...it was a really rough time for the WWE. Even guys who were busting their asses like Sheamus and Ziggler were saddled up with bad gimmicks which really hurt their appeal (Sheamus being pushed as a top babyface, Dolph Ziggler as Vickie Guerrero's boy-toy) so it was really down to Daniel Bryan and CM Punk. Of course they never went all the way with them, so they could never carry the show themselves, it was just occasionally they got the opportunity to have good matches and they delivered.

From memory, there were two shows fans actually enjoyed from WWE. The first was Proto-NXT where management was clearly not watching the show so the writers were just having a field day writing this fun soap opera storylines for Maxine (Catrina), Johnny Curtis, Derrick Bateman and Kaitlyn that involved a lot of the lesser known talent. They were clearly having fun with it and it went in some really fun directions. There was also a Saturday Morning Slam show which was a kids show and featured more comedic wrestling usually with a top talent working a lower card talent. It was like those fun house show spots put to tape. Then FCW became NXT and the WWE actually had a Pro Wrestling show.

I forgot to mention that Chikara was huge around this time as well. I don't think ever had so much hype and then it would go on hiatus early 2013 and never regain it's momentum again.

[El-P]

42 minutes ago, Big Pete said:

Going in, Roode was considered the all-round talent and fans were annoyed that they invested all that time in the Bound For Glory series only to pull the rug out from underneath Roode. The way they justified it made sense, so fans were willing to give it a go, although ultimately yes they wanted Storm to be THE guy leading TNA forward.

Yeah, Roode was certainly the most solid in-ring talent, but he was a mediocre promo and had no charisma at all (the "intense" shit he was pulling when he attacked Dixie was hilariously laughable). Plus, it seems like Brucie told him to work like a dull 00's WWE guy, stripping him of everything that made hin good before. He was a great feeding and bumping heel and dynamic offensive babyface. And now here's there working at a snail pace, putting people to sleep with prolonged rest-holds, working as dull-as-dirt as possible. Very few times would he display his former spirited self. And the cheap, shit finish in *every* main event because Brucie's idea was that Roode was lucky (not getting that at this point, people would just annoyed by the booking). Awful stuff that goes for months and months and months and NEVER FUCKING ENDS. The audience was SO ready for Storm to win at Lockdown and they had this typical WWE idiotic shit finish. After that point it's obvious they don't have any plans and just want to have Roode on top until Jeff Hardy takes it, Aries almost looks like an accident.

42 minutes ago, Big Pete said:

What was the deal with Final Battle 2012? Storm beats Roode and AJ on the previous PPV for a shot, but on the next PPV it's Roode/Hardy?

Final Battle is ROH.  Yes, after they have this great blow-off match at Bound for Glory (only Storm coud get it out of his former partner), they put them back against each other like the following week (how dumb is that ?), Storm wins the three way at Turning Point, but then they put them BACK AGAINST EACH OTHER AGAIN on TV with the title shot on the line and Roode wins, because of course he does, leading to yet another super boring PPV main event with a shit finish involving Aces & Eights (especially since they have to follow AJ vs Daniels tearing it up again for the 1000th times). And the first PPV of 2013 is a three-way with Aries and ROODE, AGAIN. Now I get why people totally crapped on his NXT run. The "It Factor" tights never get old in its ridiculousness, because if there's something that Bobby Roode never had, it's the It Factor, whatever that is. Super solid hand for sure and excellent tag team wrestler. Single main eventer ? Fuck no, not even as a big fish in a small pond.