Mad Dog Posted May 19, 2019 Report Share Posted May 19, 2019 I don't think PAC is the issue as much as DG is. Dave seemed to think they booked this thinking he wouldn't have the belt anymore and then could lose to Omega in the fall. They seemed to heavily underestimate how long he's going to have the belt. The belt is the main issue and they don't want to do draws or a DQ because they want wins/losses to matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmare007 Posted May 19, 2019 Report Share Posted May 19, 2019 They can still do that when he drops it. I still don't see the issue. It's not like they have to rush Omega vs PAC. On the contrary, that's the type of match they can and should take a lot of time building to. 9 hours ago, Mad Dog said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted May 19, 2019 Report Share Posted May 19, 2019 I'm thinking maybe the idea was PAC vs. Omega to crown their first champion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted May 20, 2019 Report Share Posted May 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Mad Dog said: I'm thinking maybe the idea was PAC vs. Omega to crown their first champion. The roster has to be paper thin if a geek like PAC was ever seriously considered for that spot. Omega is a star. "Don't call me X or 2" PAC is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeg Posted May 20, 2019 Report Share Posted May 20, 2019 4 hours ago, Mad Dog said: I don't think PAC is the issue as much as DG is. Dave seemed to think they booked this thinking he wouldn't have the belt anymore and then could lose to Omega in the fall. They seemed to heavily underestimate how long he's going to have the belt. The belt is the main issue and they don't want to do draws or a DQ because they want wins/losses to matter. But draws and DQs are an avenues to make wins and losses matter. Having nothing but clean wins and losses every week devalues a clean win as we've seen from the past 5 to 10 years of WWE programing. And I completely understand Pac not losing clean outside of DG, its up to whoever books him to understand that too. AEW will run into the same problem with some of the other workers who are top guys for their home promotion. They've got 45 to 50 guys under contract with more than half of them working for other companies so this is going to keep happening as they fill the middle of their cards with guys from other promotions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted May 20, 2019 Report Share Posted May 20, 2019 7 hours ago, joeg said: But draws and DQs are an avenues to make wins and losses matter. Disagree. Making wins and losses matter make wins and losses matter, basically. See : All Japan in the 90's. Current New Japan. And actually, the most clean wins you do, the more DQ's and draws mean something when you do it once in a blue moon, and then those appear as special. 8 hours ago, joeg said: Having nothing but clean wins and losses every week devalues a clean win as we've seen from the past 5 to 10 years of WWE programing. Clean wins aren't the issue. Shitty 50/50 booking and not having any logical fallout from wins and losses are the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeg Posted May 20, 2019 Report Share Posted May 20, 2019 Agreed. 90s AJPW still had frequent draws. 70s and 80s AJPW regularly had draws and DQ finishes as did promotions like Mid South where wins really carried weight. There’s two ways to protect top guys and make their wins matter that I’ve seen, DQs and draws or frequent tag matches where the junior heavyweight or outsider takes the fall and top guys ( Misawa, Okada, Hashimoto, etc) are never pinned. I don’t see AEW jobbing out the smaller guys as their top stars are smaller guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migs Posted May 20, 2019 Report Share Posted May 20, 2019 19 hours ago, El-P said: As a worker, killed it in the G1 Climax last year. And they are going with new guys. They are gonna establish their own people. That's the right thing to do. His match with Cobb at Final Battle was also a lot of fun. He's not at the top guy level yet, but I think it's fair to suggest he can get there. He needs to add some layers and nuance to his work so he has more than one gear, but he's also surrounded by guys who understand modern psychology better than anyone. He's gotten worlds better in the last 18 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted May 20, 2019 Report Share Posted May 20, 2019 90s AJPW only had four draws outside of the Champion Carnival. And I'm sure AEW won't have clean decisive finishes every week, only on the PPVs. Expecting people to pay 50 bucks to watch matches with weak cop-out finishes seems like a terrible business strategy. Draws and DQ/screwjob finishes are like blood in wrestling: they can be great when used sparingly, but no use is better than overuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 Watch the Visa situation for Double Or Nothing over the next few days is all I'll say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 Trouble with CIMA & co., Japanese women? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMKK Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 They announced fucking Glacier for the Casino Battle Royale, which is amazing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMKK Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 Not a Jack Whitehall fan by any stretch but he's a well known guy so he's good get for them to do those interviews. The winner of Jericho vs Omega will wrestle the winner of the battle royal to be crowned the inaugural champion. There aren't any standout names I can see in the battle royal listings so far so you'd have to presume there's a big name surprised waiting in the wings. Ambrose/Moxley? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 I kind of think that Moxley has been a done deal for awhile and they have just been keeping it secret. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 Who are you to doubt Glacier ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 Jericho vs. Glacier for the AEW World Title on TNT live! If they want to recreate WCW and Nitro, that's the way to do it!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 My friend is going and didn't realize they had announced Glacier and was hyped for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 6 minutes ago, Mad Dog said: I kind of think that Moxley has been a done deal for awhile and they have just been keeping it secret. Well, he sure could be their Lex Luger for their big debut on TNT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted May 22, 2019 Report Share Posted May 22, 2019 Yeah it seems clear the battle royal is going to have a surprise entrant, and Moxley seems like the obvious choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted May 23, 2019 Report Share Posted May 23, 2019 2 hours ago, Mad Dog said: I kind of think that Moxley has been a done deal for awhile and they have just been keeping it secret. There were several hints in the viral video he tweeted out. Also Jack Swagger in a radio interview blurted out that Moxley would be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted May 24, 2019 Report Share Posted May 24, 2019 So we have : Young Bucks superkicking David Arquette. Then a Johnny Mundo/iMPACT cameo. MJF being awesome as always at being a prick. Tony Schiavone doing a voice over. How wrong can this go ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteF3 Posted May 24, 2019 Report Share Posted May 24, 2019 Double or Nothing just got an in-game plug on TNT during the NBA playoffs. Aside from Marv Albert mispronouncing "Jericho," that was cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Sleeze Posted May 24, 2019 Report Share Posted May 24, 2019 On 5/19/2019 at 7:43 PM, Mad Dog said: I don't think PAC is the issue as much as DG is. Dave seemed to think they booked this thinking he wouldn't have the belt anymore and then could lose to Omega in the fall. They seemed to heavily underestimate how long he's going to have the belt. The belt is the main issue and they don't want to do draws or a DQ because they want wins/losses to matter. Draws & DQs do make wins/losses matter! It means the wins & losses are more rare! They better not do the constantly trading wins thing. New Japan is totally different booking. They do tours and a lot of the matches are six-mans. They can go that route. It may be the smart thing to just book a lot of tags for TV, but if they go the modern American TV route I hope it is not the trading wins route. DQ, Countouts and draws are effective booking tools. I hate when they are smeared for no reason. Not an attack on you, Mad Dog, brutha more of the stigma associated by modern day bookers, Meltzer and fans to draws, DQs, and countouts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Sleeze Posted May 24, 2019 Report Share Posted May 24, 2019 On 5/20/2019 at 1:16 AM, joeg said: But draws and DQs are an avenues to make wins and losses matter. Having nothing but clean wins and losses every week devalues a clean win as we've seen from the past 5 to 10 years of WWE programing. And I completely understand Pac not losing clean outside of DG, its up to whoever books him to understand that too. AEW will run into the same problem with some of the other workers who are top guys for their home promotion. They've got 45 to 50 guys under contract with more than half of them working for other companies so this is going to keep happening as they fill the middle of their cards with guys from other promotions. Turns out JoeG beat me to it. Thanks JoeG for sticking up for the draw, DQ and countout! Good brutha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Sleeze Posted May 24, 2019 Report Share Posted May 24, 2019 On 5/20/2019 at 9:20 AM, El-P said: Disagree. Making wins and losses matter make wins and losses matter, basically. See : All Japan in the 90's. Current New Japan. And actually, the most clean wins you do, the more DQ's and draws mean something when you do it once in a blue moon, and then those appear as special. Clean wins aren't the issue. Shitty 50/50 booking and not having any logical fallout from wins and losses are the issue. Japanese touring and booking make this a realistic model, El-P! You know that. They can hide everyone in six-mans and then only do star vs star singles matches at the Budokan or Sumo Hall, 6-12 times a year. Dont be purposefully obtuse. American booking model is different with week-to-week TV. They could go back to squash matches, which I would not be opposed to that. If you are doing star vs star matches week to week you can do No Contest, DQ and then blowoff week 3. Guess what that blowoff will feel great and earned. Dont make it seem like DQ/CO/NC/Draw is the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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