Slasher Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 I just meant that it is possible for someone to offer an opinion that comes from a place of neutrality or not leaning towards one "side" or the other. But anyone who offers such gets dismissed by the super stans. It's not so much a problem here as it is in other places though, thankfully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 6 minutes ago, Slasher said: But anyone who offers such gets dismissed by the super stans. I had to google that one to understand what it meant. And it come from an Eminem song ? You learn something everyday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 The Young Bucks Discuss The Comedic Nature Of The AEW Fyter Fest Pre-Show Quote "The whole thing was a blow off of the Being The Elite story and I felt like we had to do that justice," Matt Jackson said. "Anything we start, we like to finish. In two weeks, we have a very serious show [with Fight For The Fallen] that probably won't have anything [comedic]. I think that was intentional. I think it was intentional to do the pre-show with a little more comedic stuff and then start the show. We had that great cold open with, 'Welcome to Fyter Fest' and it was serious business from there on." More here: https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2019/07/the-young-bucks-discuss-the-comedic-nature-of-the-aew-fyter-655867/ The most interesting part for me was that "Fight For The Fallen" will have a completely different approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 Considering the kind of show it will be, Fight for the Fallen has to have a completely different approach. Doing comedy on a show raising money for victims of gun violence would be an amazingly bad read on their part and I wouldn't expect it to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 BTE this week has some fun stuff, including the usual little jabs at WWE ("I should have gone to NXT", and Brandi being told how to look at a monitor backstage), and some actual cool backstage footage like Kenny Omega trying to set up his intro or a camera guy falling straight on his ass into the pool while filming the post-main event angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 I've been a bit surprised to see some people being so...angrily dismissive of AEW before they've even gotten out of the gate. To me, it's mind-boggling to write them off before they've even started producing TV. I don't think anybody is going to be able to honestly judge what AEW is really going to be like until we get to view an entire run of television leading up to a PPV, and then the subsequent PPV. Then we'll finally get to see how they manage to juggle airtime for their talent, how they build storylines, how much is going to be based on in-ring action and how much is going to be based on backstage segments and promos, and we'll see who they'll be pushing and who they won't be. Will it really be a serious product based on wins and losses, or will it be more comedy based? Or will they try and balance both? Nobody knows yet. AEW has run two shows. To write them off at this point seems short-sighted and ignorant. You have to ask why some people are being so negative, and the obvious answer is that there is a segment of hardcore fans who don't want AEW to succeed at all, for some reason. Maybe they're die hard WWE fans (although I honestly didn't think there really was such a thing anymore) who find the mere idea of somebody daring to compete with Vince to be an insult therefore AEW must be stopped. Maybe they're just like a lot of Twitter trolls who are being negative and overly critical of everything in a sad effort to bring attention to themselves. Who knows. There's a flip side to that coin, though. Since the moment AEW was formed, there has also been a subset of fans who are trumpeting every little thing AEW has done when honestly - they've barely done anything yet. Or if you try and mention a good match you watched in NXT or on 205 Live and somebody barges in and starts blathering nonsense. "Who cares about NXT? How can you watch that crap? Plus, Saudi Arabia! Now AEW, that's a good product! 205 Live only wishes they had Luchasaurus! Blah blah blah!" Yeah, we get it. You're excited about AEW. Now go sit down. And gawd forbid somebody criticize what AEW has done so far. Then the person who criticized AEW must be a dinosaur who is stuck in the past and doesn't understand "modern" Pro Wrestling. Both groups are equally annoying, as far as I'm concerned. You can't honestly write AEW off before they've even started, but by the same token just because somebody didn't like some of the things they have done already it doesn't make their opinion invalid. Especially if they're voicing that option rationally and reasonably. I've been a Pro Wrestling fan for 36 years. By now, I know what I like and what I don't like in Pro Wrestling. To be honest, I am not excited about AEW for a variety of reasons. Firstly, it remains to be seen if I'm even going to get to see their TV. We don't get TNT in Canada, and so far they have not announced a Canadian TV deal. Secondly, I honestly am not a fan of a number of the wrestlers they have used thus far, and I don't care for the style of wrestling it looks like they're planning on presenting. I'm not a fan of overly choreographed or theatrical stuff that is meant to be humorous. I don't care to watch guys like Sonny Kiss, Orange Cassidy and Michael Nakazawa. I don't even much care for Kenny Omega or The Young Bucks. I suppose they're very good at what they do, I am just not a fan of what they do. I can't see myself going out of my way to watch those guys. But if you do like that type of wrestling, then more power to you. I certainly don't want AEW to fail. I think it's great that there is now a company where guys like Jon Moxley and Shawn Spears can get work and be creatively satisfied. Even better, guys like Rusev and Luke Harper and The Revival now have options if they can get away from WWE. I can't imagine why anybody wouldn't want to see them have an alternative place to go. Just because I don't necessarily want to see it, doesn't mean that people who do want to see it shouldn't be able to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 Great post, @The Thread Killer, even if I am more excited about AEW than you are. Then again, my favorite AEW matches so far have been Cody vs. Dustin Rhodes, Cody vs. Darby Allin, and the Nyla Rose three-way match at FyterFest (I thought that told a really good story). So, maybe I'm not the target demographic either? Who knows... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 Just now, C.S. said: So, maybe I'm not the target demographic either? Who knows... The whole question of AEW's target demographic is an interesting one, isn't it? I've heard Tony Khan say in more than one interview that he hopes AEW appeals to new fans, and to lapsed fans from the 90's. Fair enough. So the question becomes how are they going to do that? Based on what I've seen from their first two shows, I am guessing they are going to take the approach of trying to provide a bit of something for everyone. For example, if you like theatrical/comedy stuff then they will use guys like Orange Cassidy and his little shin-kicking spot, or this whole Librarians angle. If you like lots of action and spots, they've got the Lucha Brothers, Young Bucks, etc. If you want the more "hardcore" stuff they have Joey Janella, Jimmy Havoc, etc. And if you like the more traditional old school stuff, they've already proven what they can do with Cody/Dustin and I am betting Moxley will fit right into that category as well. The main question is will some fans be turned off by some of that stuff. I know some fans hate the hardcore stuff. Others don't like the comedy. I myself can't imagine anybody not liking the matches like Cody vs. Dustin, but who knows. I know I was planning on ordering Double or Nothing until I saw the price. I wasn't going to pay $50.00 to see a show that only had one or two matches I was interested in, and having since seen the show I am glad I kept my money in my pocket. I know a lot of fans (rightfully) like to criticize WWE for being too samey and generic - and they unquestionably are. But I don't know how many new or lapsed fans AEW will be able to draw in by having such a wide variety of stuff on the menu. That's the main reason I want to see what their TV is like. A couple of months of television should be able to answer the question about what the overall tone and style the promotion is going to have. Those are questions that can't be answered by two PPV's, the second of which was being done for a very niche audience, even among wrestling fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 I am pretty sure I've read that "something for everyone" is exactly the approach AEW will be taking, with each match designed to provide a different experience. I recall it being compared to a buffet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 I think you kind of have to throw some of the Fyte Fest stuff out the window. That was really just a house show they decided to stream and was catered to a video game crowd. I think the variety they provide on their shows has been great and is one of the ways they do feel different than WWE. When WCW was really on fire in 96-97 their shows had that same kind of variety to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted July 1, 2019 Report Share Posted July 1, 2019 53 minutes ago, C.S. said: Then again, my favorite AEW matches so far have been Cody vs. Dustin Rhodes, Cody vs. Darby Allin, and the Nyla Rose three-way match at FyterFest (I thought that told a really good story). So, maybe I'm not the target demographic either? Who knows... Come on, you loved the match with the magical girl. 21 minutes ago, C.S. said: I am pretty sure I've read that "something for everyone" is exactly the approach AEW will be taking, with each match designed to provide a different experience. I recall it being compared to a buffet. Which is great. You don't like chinese guy flying around ? Maybe you'll like Dustin & Cody working a story based bloodbath. You don't like that ? Maybe you'll like the japanese women taking on the american monster. Not your thing ? Maybe you'll like some good solid tag-team action with SCU or Best Friends. You prefer crazy spotfest ? Lucha Brothers vs Young Bucks is your thing. You want some rough grudge match ? Mox and Jericho are here. Classic heelish and great dickhead promo ? MJF says hello. Anyway, yeah, I like this approach. As far as the demographic, I dunno. I've been watching pro-wresling for almost 30 years, my tastes have evolved during that time, right now I probably enjoy current pro-wrestling more than I ever had and feel like I'm more open than ever to different kind of stuff, so... 19 minutes ago, Mad Dog said: I think you kind of have to throw some of the Fyte Fest stuff out the window. That was really just a house show they decided to stream and was catered to a video game crowd. I think the variety they provide on their shows has been great and is one of the ways they do feel different than WWE. When WCW was really on fire in 96-97 their shows had that same kind of variety to them. This. And this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 My biggest take away so far from AEW is that in Japan, Kenny Omega was a Superstar & Cody Rhodes was a geek. In AEW, Cody Rhodes is a Superstar & Kenny Omega is a geek. Again, it's only been two shows, but the role reversal has been insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 27 minutes ago, Coffey said: In AEW, Cody Rhodes is a Superstar & Kenny Omega is a geek. I have no idea where that comes from. Kenny has always been positioned in the bigger match on both shows and is the key player in the N°1 angle/feud against Mox. His character may not appeal to you, but to say he comes off like a geek is simply not factual. Unless if by geek your mean "video game fanatic", in which case, yeah. And actually, Cody never came off like a geek in NJ either. Hell, it's watching him over there with Brandi that made him look like a star to me for he first time, much to my surprise, as I never saw shit in him before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 AEW is appealing because it isn't Vince controlled wrestling, just like New Japan, MLW, PWG, Impact, and everything else, including NXT. People want Not Vince wrestling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 I thought the time limit draw was a really good look into what they want to do with the promotion. That really showed, to me, that they are serious about wins and losses mattering. They took a guy that I didn't know a lot about in Darby Allin and made me care about him in a relatively short period of time. The other thing I really love about AEW so far is you usually have a good idea where the winner is headed for his next match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 14 hours ago, El-P said: And actually, Cody never came off like a geek in NJ either. Hell, it's watching him over there with Brandi that made him look like a star to me for he first time, much to my surprise, as I never saw shit in him before. Same here. Seeing the platinum blond hair and heeling with Brandi, it felt like the missing piece of the puzzle had finally been added and suddenly everything clicked with Cody's act. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMKK Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 Mox vs Omega is the biggest thing they're building to right now but I think Cody has come off as the biggest star so far in both shows, from the entrance to the way he carried himself to the way he works in the ring. I know people love Omega but I still think his facial expressions are sometimes too goofy to be taken seriously and, although he can do lots in the ring, I wouldn't be surprised if after six months of TV with a more casual audience, Cody and Moxley have eclipsed him as the stars of the promotion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 Good news for those who hope for AEW to be a serious product and not a cartoon freak show: Tony Khan says no to intergender matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migs Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 19 minutes ago, FMKK said: Mox vs Omega is the biggest thing they're building to right now but I think Cody has come off as the biggest star so far in both shows, from the entrance to the way he carried himself to the way he works in the ring. I know people love Omega but I still think his facial expressions are sometimes too goofy to be taken seriously and, although he can do lots in the ring, I wouldn't be surprised if after six months of TV with a more casual audience, Cody and Moxley have eclipsed him as the stars of the promotion. There does seem to be an aspect where they've flipped roles from New Japan - Omega was the perfect guy for that place, and Cody always felt just a little off. The way AEW wants to tell stories seems so perfectly geared towards Cody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 I think it helps that Cody has had better matches and has done little bit sized one match programs that have delivered. But Cody has also done some really great promos for AEW too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fakeplastictrees Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 I like the approach of a little something for everyone. Doing that, starting out, will give the company a good gauge of what is and isn't working. I've enjoyed both shows thus far. My biggest complaint with AEW right now is the focus on 'having good matches'. It's the same complaint I have with WWE. The wrestling has ventured away from a struggle and more into silly choreography up and down the card. That's "fine" with me. However, I would hear the wrestler state that they want to win matches, beat people up, and cash checks. MJF did an interview backstage after FF and in that interview he mentioned that whenever the fans see him, they will see an amazing match. Not him coming out with the win or humbling his opponents. An amazing match. Keeping tracks of wins and loses is a good concept, but the wrestlers will need to care as well and that should be reflected in promos. Having one or two guys on the roster who wants to 'steal the show' is all well and good, but everyone cannot cosplay as Dolph Ziggler. Someone has to be there for championships and checks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herodes Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 The supposed “heels” are talking about having amazing matches? There really is no hope for pro wrestling. Question - Shad Khan is worth $7 billion, are the wrestlers employees with full benefits? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 Some are and some aren't, or something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 I'm pretty confident that CM Punk is not going to be at All Out in Chicago. I know that's not exactly a stretch or going out on a limb to say that, but it feels like I'm reading daily that people are like "I dunno..." Before I learned that CM Punk is now apparently suing Colt Cabana, I had a little bit more faith. But now I just don't think it's happening. Punk has said he's not going from the get-go, but in the world of pro-wrestling, you get the "oh, well that means he's definitely going then" mentality. Last time I saw CM Punk he was... scrawny. He was fighting at 170lbs, right? I mean, I guess the roster in AEW isn't exactly swole, so he would probably fit right in looks wise but man. Maybe that's just my own personal dated mentality but it's hard for me to take guys seriously when I'm twice their size, as a fan. But yeah, I don't think Punk is coming & the foreseeable future for the TNT shows looks like it will be built around Jericho & Moxley while building up Hangman Page & Kenny Omega. It's weird because AEW is in this situation where they've not even ran a television episode yet, but wrestling fans are so excited that we all want to just speculate & talk about what if scenarios. Could AEW get Sasha Banks, or The Revival or Rusev? I'm more excited to see what they do with their current guys that I don't know anything about though. Like, I would care a lot more to see Luchasaurus than freakin' Tye Dillinger. Or what if AEW were to bring back people that fans know, that aren't fresh out of WWE. Like they did with Awesome Kong. That was a genuinely cool surprise at Double or Nothing. Maybe they could get someone like Carlito? But ultimately, it's the angles that are going to matter more than the roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 1 hour ago, Coffey said: Like, I would care a lot more to see Luchasaurus than freakin' Tye Dillinger. Maybe they could get someone like Carlito? In one breath, you shit-talk and dismiss Shawn Spears, sarcastically referring to him by his WWE name. In the other breath, you want an appearance by fucking Carlito. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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