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goodhelmet

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I think Private Party is starting to grow on me. Most of their offense may be clearly choreographed and not terribly impactful, but it's heartening to see a young team perform a proper hot tag. WWE-style "hot tags" where the FIP hits one big move or counter leading to both guys slowly crawling to their corners and tagging out simultaneously have made most modern tag matches unwatchable for me.

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22 hours ago, Coffey said:

One of the positives about AEW so far that people have been putting over is that they seem to listen to criticism from their fans & make changes accordingly. Pretty much the opposite of what WWE does. One of the big button issues lately has been that the matches have been going too long, even to the detriment of the talent, like Adam Page at Fyter Fest. So I can't imagine that they would implement this change to the match & then do a 60 minute draw. That would be too tone deaf for AEW IMO.

What evidence of the "listening to the fans" talking point is there?

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16 hours ago, NintendoLogic said:

I think Private Party is starting to grow on me. Most of their offense may be clearly choreographed and not terribly impactful, but it's heartening to see a young team perform a proper hot tag. WWE-style "hot tags" where the FIP hits one big move or counter leading to both guys slowly crawling to their corners and tagging out simultaneously have made most modern tag matches unwatchable for me.

I don't know how there can be a proper hot tag when there aren't any heat segments.

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5 minutes ago, Goodear said:

What evidence of the "listening to the fans" talking point is there?

People complained about the spot where Mox interfered in a match right in front of the ref and there was no DQ, so the following week they made sure the ref was not in a position to look stupid on interference spots. 

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Also, they pulled the plug on the librarians and the Dark Order (banished to AEW Dark and out in their first tournament match, respectively) when it was clear that neither act was getting over.

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3 hours ago, fakeplastictrees said:

Week 4 and there is carpet there so guys don't receive a concussion taking a top con hilo.

Same idea that went into pushing the barricades back further from the ring after Omega and PAC both smashed their knees on the barricades doing dives. 

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18 hours ago, Goodear said:

I don't know how there can be a proper hot tag when there aren't any heat segments.

Edit: I respectfully disagree with this particular hot take. Nobody is saying that Private Party are the new Morton/Kikuchi/Xavier Woods in terms of selling and/or working from underneath... but they absolutely worked a go-go-go version of FiP in both of their AEW tournament matches. 

Edited by gordi
Was too pissy before, for personal reasons unrelated to the topic at hand.

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7 hours ago, gordi said:

Whatever credibility you might have aspired to has just gone flying out the window with that asinine hot take.

Like I said in the week's thread, AEW has been allowing tag team wrestlers to run in whenever they feel like. So I can understand that take in the context of the hot tag looks different in AEW compared to the WWE formula. Guys just run in and do double team moves like tagging doesn't really matter. That said, AEW has still managed to make those matches exciting and keep the fans invested in the matches, so even if they don't do WWE style hot tags, there's plenty of heat anyways for their transitions.

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Note: I was in the midst of editing my post while Slasher was responding to it. I got some bad news from back home recently, and haven't been sleeping well since. On reflection, I felt I was needlessly pissy in my original reply.

Anyway, I agree with Slasher's take about as strongly as I disagree with Goodear on this particular subject. AEW tag action seems to me to mainly be a sped-up action-intensive version of the southern tag formula... There is always shine and heat and FiP. All of the necessary elements are clearly in place. I am often the most Old Man Yells at Clouds guy in the room when it comes to in-ring storytelling and just a few years ago I was convinced that Kenny and the Young Bucks were the absolute worst offenders... But every major AEW match I have seen so far has had a pretty clear and coherent story and they mostly seem to be trying to add cutting-edge action and pacing to absolutely classic formulae. 

There is room for improvement, certainly (there is always room for improvement) but 'there are no real heat segments' does not seem like any kind of valid criticism, even if we are only talking about Private Party. Perhaps *particularly* talking about them v Lucha Bros. When a good guy wrestler has been getting beaten down, and he makes a desperate lunge to tag his partner in and *the crowd goes nuts for it* then I have to believe that there has been a *successful* heat segment that led up to that hot tag - even if the good guy can't help but toss in a cartwheel and/or a back handspring.

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On the negative side, JR and Schiavone have been driving me nuts the past couple of weeks with their constant harping on wrestlers not hooking the leg or applying enough pressure to the shoulders. What makes it worse is that Excalibur, who as a former wrestler should be able to provide some insight on how to properly execute a pin, always sits there silently whenever they do it. This must be how Meltzer felt listening to Gorilla Monsoon in the 80s.

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I agree with you all that JR needs to tone down the critiquing of wrestlers, but I think it may have something to do with AEW wanting a "real sports" feel to their shows.  If you watch an NFL game, commentators (often former QB's) will criticize a quarterback for missing an open receiver or making a bad read, etc. all the time.  I think it'd be more effective if JR didn't do it on every damn pin, but I don't mind it here and there.

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I disagree strongly! We need announcers reminding the audience why a big move didn't put a match away.  Not hooking the leg, not making the quick cover,  not executing a submission securely... all legit reasons to be called out by the announcers.  If the talentare making too many lazy pins, that's on them, not the announcers. 

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3 minutes ago, goodhelmet said:

I disagree strongly! We need announcers reminding the audience why a big move didn't put a match away.  Not hooking the leg, not making the quick cover,  not executing a submission securely... all legit reasons to be called out by the announcers.  If the talentare making too many lazy pins, that's on them, not the announcers. 

I don't think he needs to cut it out completely, but JR is doing in on every single pinfall attempt.  In a modern wrestling match, that's going to be a lot of attempts. Maybe save it for the really egregious ones?  Like in the women's match last night, there was a falcon arrow into a pin, and they were barely touching. Calling it out there makes sense.  You just hit a big move, but went half-ass on the cover, it's a mistake.  

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I hear you man... but that is on the wrestlers. I would rather hear JR bitch every single match about every single pinfall than hear one more announcer on WWE speak corporate Vince-isms. 

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Just now, goodhelmet said:

I hear you man... but that is on the wrestlers. I would rather hear JR bitch every single match about every single pinfall than hear one more announcer on WWE speak corporate Vince-isms. 

This is going to sound like I'm drunk on the AEW Kool Aid, but I think the "mistakes" and some of the rawness of Dynamite add to it's appeal.  Everything in WWE is so polished and sanitized, it's nice to feel like you're watching humans sometimes.

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I'm pretty sure most fans consider the move preceding the pin rather than the pin itself to be what puts someone down. Given that, it might be a better idea to give the wrestler being pinned credit for having the strength to kick out rather than criticizing the one doing the pinning unless it's an egregiously nonchalant cover. That, or make a concerted effort to educate the fans (and the wrestlers, for that matter) on what a proper pin entails. That's actually something I've been thinking about quite a bit recently. If pro wrestling were a shoot, how would you keep someone's shoulders pinned to the mat for three seconds with a lateral press? It seems to me that hooking someone's legs would make it easier for them to lift their shoulder up. By contrast, here's a lateral press from Johnny Saint that looks like it could believably keep someone down for a three-count.

Then again, when Sting shoot pinned Jeff Hardy at Victory Road, he did it by hooking both of Jeff's legs, so who knows.

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Of all the things on the show I thought would make Cornette melt down, Tony Khan talking to Mox wasn't even on the list. Dude's so transparently a gimmick these days I don't know how people keep falling for it.

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I went out of my way to catch the season 4 premier of Rick and Morty, in large part because of the cosplay on AEW's Halloween show.  I loved it. Brilliant sci fi mixed with nihilistic comedy, Jokes coming so fast I couldn't count them all. Right up my alley. And now I have three full seasons to go back and enjoy. AEW is the gift that keeps on giving. 

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:o :lol:

 
Update: Orton jumps in to take the fun out of it and the wind out of everyone's sails - much like one of his typical matches or segments.

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Funny how Orton played the whole "Elite" thing to get a bigger deal from the WWE and remain in the comfortable spot he pretty much always had since he debuted, and now acts like a good old corporate drone again. We talked about whether Orton would have showed something else if he ever showed up in AEW, but in all honesty I was glad he stayed with WWE. This guy had always been a black hole, and really wasn't needed. 

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The only wrestler who would make a tangible difference in ratings and tickets is Cena, and Cena is happy being semi-retired and being a fixture on Nickelodeon. 

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