All Elite Wrestling

[sek69]

Randy has good heel charisma, I suppose. Like everything else about him, it only shows up when he feels like it. 

[El-P]

14 minutes ago, C.S. said:

Je vous remercie!

De rien !

Ok, Orton has re-signed, so all of this is a moot point anyway (kinda like Orton's entire career).

[War is Raw]

1 hour ago, El-P said:

I totally agree that Orton has zero charisma. The reason he's over with the crowd is because he's been there forever and pushed to the moon forever since the very start. To me he's the more forced pro-wrestler ever. He's walking down the ramp and just nothing happens at all. He's sucking my will of watching anything from him by the sheer force of his inner void. When I first stumbled back onto WWE programs in the mid 00's and I saw this guy, I immediately knew modern WWE was not for me, as there was nothing to see. No charisma, no discernable look (just a bunch of bad tribal tatoos) and a final move that he basically lifted from DDP (the move and the act). And then there's the Viperrrrr Randy Orton. Wanna talk about bad acting, forced drama, goofy as fuck maneurism and robotic shit ? This is it. the whole hitting the ground with his fist. I tried and tried and tried, during the Cena days and those million awfully boring, neverending matches they had together. I gave Orton the Black Hole moniker and I stand by it. The fact Foley worked a miracle match with him is a testament to his genius, because otherwise, there's nothing to remember from this guy, ever. It's like he never happened.

The fact he gets a pass despite the accusation of sexual harrassement, being a total douchebag with the Divas back in the days and apparently racist posting blows my mind too.

The amazing thing is how Randy Orton always get put over by old timers and his peers like he was God's gift to wrestling. People like Flair, Cornette, Race, HHH, Cena, Matysik, etc.

I never had an emotional connection to him, and he always put me to sleep. So did Inoki and Billy Robinson, but they have historical significance. I guess his Evolution and Legend Killer runs really made him a big star. But his body of work is pure WWE nonsense and boring matches. He looks and sounds like a CAW. He has the guts to work that rear chinlock, thinking that makes him "old school" or something, but it doesn't fit. 

His dad showed more movement in the ring, had better selling, and better matwork. His dad also lacked charisma and audience connection. So not sure why it is so offensive to some to suggest that with Randy. I guess they have some good memories of him as a tweener from the 2000s or a Royal Rumble win.

One of the worse promos, although it may be a scripted issue. Pushes are beyond his control, but his character was irrevocably ruined when he was The Authority's lackey. He gets pops nowadays due to nostalgia, the meme, and his ridiculous WWE poses/mannerisms.

The AEW fantasy booking was baffling.

Uncle Dave's WON HOF nominee capsule: "Orton kills everyone on the list for longevity, number of main events in major markets, top position, and his 13 world titles are among the most in history. He’s also technically excellent in the ring, has a great look, and has headlined more PPV shows than all but few in history including WrestleMania. Yet, with all that I can say, he’s hard to pull the trigger on voting. It’s unfair to say it was handed to him, because it’s handed to nobody unless they were a relative of the promoter. But he didn’t have to work nearly as hard to get it. And some of that was his natural talent, and a lot was his size and look. He looked the part and could work the part, was pushed for a long time yet there is almost the idea that he was pushed ahead of better people simply because of the traits he had. He had good matches, often very good matches, but as great as he was technically, I can’t really name a slew of true great matches. He talked well, but I would never call him a great promo. He was not a super drawing card, although he also came in the era where that was difficult. Aside from John Cena, who in the U.S. of his contemporaries truly was? But when it comes to headlining big shows, or being legit among the top ten draws of his era, he fares extremely well historically, well above Hall of Fame threshold."

 

[sek69]

So Omega vs Jack Evans for the AAA title will take place tomorrow for AEW Dark. 

As cubsfan pointed out, the irony is Jack could never get an AAA title match while he was in AAA, but he gets one in AEW.

[NintendoLogic]

Dave has a clear double standard when it comes to the HOF. When people would point to Sting's world titles and main events, he'd dismiss them because it's not supposed to be the Hall of Pushes. But with Orton, it's a feather in his cap.

[C.S.]

28 minutes ago, NintendoLogic said:

Dave has a clear double standard when it comes to the HOF. When people would point to Sting's world titles and main events, he'd dismiss them because it's not supposed to be the Hall of Pushes. But with Orton, it's a feather in his cap.

Sting destroys Orton as a Hall of Famer, and if Dave says or thinks otherwise, OOF!

[sek69]

Sting was clearly the guy in WCW, and with Orton the argument can be made that there have been times where other people would have been a better fit.

[gordi]

5 hours ago, sek69 said:

Is it me, or does Jungle Boy look like a third Young Buck when he has his hair back like that?

Definitely not just you.

[MoS]

2 hours ago, C.S. said:

Sting destroys Orton as a Hall of Famer, and if Dave says or thinks otherwise, OOF!

The argument against Sting always was that he was the face of a company that always lost money and never drew apart from a brief period when Hogan and NWO were on top and Sting was waiting in the rafters. People's mileage varies regarding how much credit he deserves for that huge Starrcade buyrate. But the aftermath was botched and Sting never settled into the role of the franchise champ of the promotion. The next year was WCW's most successful year on top, and Hogan, various celebrities and ultimately Goldberg were more important than he was. 

The aftermath is not his fault, but the hall of fame cannot be used to right historical wrongs. If Shawn had botched Austin's coronation at WM 14, who knows what might have happened. Sting then went to WWE, had a perfectly unremarkable run, yet was voted into the WON Hall of fame subsequently. 

I would not put Orton in the hall of fame personally. I think a hall of fame should always reflect the strength of the industry it honours, and there is no doubt that as far as watching wrestling and paying money for it, pro wrestling is overall in the worst shape it has been since the 2nd world war. It stands to reason then that the modern wrestlers should find it much harder to enter the hall of fame. Again, it's not about penalising them, but about not using the hall of fame to right historical wrongs.

I think John Cena is the only slam-duno first ballot hall of famer in the last 17 years. Please bear in mind that I do not have much knowledge of how the business in Japan bottomed out in the 2000s before the current revival, so I am unsure how the resurgence helps wrestlers like Tanahashi and Okada to get into the hall, since I am not knowledgeable enough to analyse their drawing power and box office success. 

[El-P]

Orton is such a black hole he is sucking down the AEW thread.

[C.S.]

The black hole is back.

 

 

[WingedEagle]

This might be the most entertaining Randy Orton I've seen in years and alone justifies his contract.

[El-P]

Randy Orton talking about anyone's father is quite ironic.

[Log]

Orton might be the best example of what shitty WWE booking of the last two decades can do to a "can't-miss" talent.  He should be this generation's Macho Man to Cena's Hogan.  Instead, he's just another guy.  Some of it's him, but he had "superstar" written all over him in those early days.

[Coffey]

I'm really excited for both Jon Moxley Vs. Darby Allin and Rey Fenix Vs. Nick Jackson. Plus we're getting whatever Jericho's announcement is. Should be a fun show tonight. 

Elsewhere, in NXT, we get ReDragon against Revival, so that should also be good. Tonight will be great.

[Slasher]

Orton's deal is that he is actually one of the best in executing moves and in the "technical" side of wrestling. He just can't seem to marry that ability to a compelling character or something more interesting than the frat boy douchebag character he's pretty much portrayed all these years. So the result is his peers appreciate him for what he allows them to do in matches with him, how easy he would be to work with (besides Kofi, I guess). It just doesn't resonate as well with fans sitting there watching him. 

[El-P]

I think it's safe to say they can do vignettes...

[gordi]

That was beautiful. I hope "Naughty Babysaurus" becomes Stunt's official nickname.

[WingedEagle]

That was legitimately awesome.  More of that on TV!

[Boss Rock]

Its remarkable for a show attempting a sports vibe, a giant dinosaur man is one of their most over acts.

[Slasher]

The champion is a guy playing a washed up rock star. "Sports feel" went out the window a long time ago. And Moxley winning matches by putting people through hardcore shit was just throwing dirt on that grave.

[El-P]

Just now, Slasher said:

"Sports feel" went out the window a long time ago.

Yeah, so can we get rid of that old guy spewing "aww the physicality" every three minutes now ? 

[NintendoLogic]

Here's Kylie Rae on her departure from AEW. Make of it what you will.

[World's Worst Man]

Mental health issues, apparently.

[C.S.]

So, AEW doesn't just give Kylie Rae time off to deal with mental issue? Instead, they release her outright? Something isn't adding up. 

Unless AEW is on a tight budget and couldn't afford to pay someone who was going to be out for what could've been indefinitely, but even that sounds flimsy.