El-P Posted September 19, 2021 Report Share Posted September 19, 2021 What I just said... Also, implying he's apologizing *only* because he's been suspended is simply gratuitous. It's not above anyone to say stupid shit. Maybe also Dreamer saw himself in the doc, was embarrassed by what he said especially confronted to the interview of the flight attendant (which, like everybody else, he probably had no seen before) and felt like shit about it. No one knows. So there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted September 19, 2021 Report Share Posted September 19, 2021 Right, but the way he said it clearly communicated he didn't think what happened was that big of a deal, and by extension calling her character into question at the same time. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and believe he realized he fucked up now, but don't give me this "I never intended to..." bullshit when in the moment you 100% intended to do the thing you're releasing a solemn JPEG apology about. To be fair, this is rubbing me the wrong way partly because as a video game fan it's becoming commonplace for game companies to do these solemn JPEG apologies when they get caught acting poorly and it never comes off as sincere. It just comes off more as "I'm sorry I upset people to the point it affected my livelihood, and I would really like it for that to not be the case so I will release a statement saying I never intended to say or do the things I clearly was intending at the time". If that's enough to satisfy you, that's fine. Perhaps my cynical bastard-ness has gone terminal and there's no hope for me. I've just seen this movie too many times to just accept on face value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted September 19, 2021 Report Share Posted September 19, 2021 I don't have to be satisfied or not. I'm not involved. I'm just an observer. I won't imply stuff just because it's "convenient" to confirm my own opinion. I'm also not a judge and I'm no one to put Tommy Dreamer on trial. What I saw is Tommy Dreamer say real stupid shit on a doc, Tommy Dreamer got suspended from his job, Tommy Dreamer apologizes. It's not up to me to judge or weigh the validity or sincerity of his public apologies, because I just know *nothing* about how the guy feels. He apologizes, which is the right thing to do, I say good for him. That's about it as far as I can say. I don't know how the women in IMPACT took the whole thing, I don't know the private exchanges he may have had with them, I basically don't know anything apart from what was shown in the documentary and now his public apology (which sounds allright to me). Again, I'm not involved and I'm not owed anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted September 19, 2021 Report Share Posted September 19, 2021 El-P's premature countdown be damned, this is going to look like an "I'm sorry you got offended" apology to most. Which would be the thing you're not supposed to do during an apology, to go with the two things you weren't supposed to do as it pertains to the victim. So at least he's consistent with being an oaf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted September 19, 2021 Report Share Posted September 19, 2021 8 minutes ago, Coffey said: El-P's premature countdown be damned, this is going to look like an "I'm sorry you got offended" apology to most. Well, if that's the case, they don't even understand the English language, because that's not what he wrote. It's irrelevant anyway, people who are complaining now are the exact same who would complain if he had not apologized. The great thing about a double bind is that you're always right. Oh anyway, it's not like it was not predictable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted September 19, 2021 Report Share Posted September 19, 2021 All he had to do was say "I'm sorry" instead of "I apologize to anyone I offended." This isn't hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted September 19, 2021 Report Share Posted September 19, 2021 "From the bottom of my heart, I am so sorry" Really now... Also, "I apologize to anyone I offended" doesn't mean "I"m sorry you got offended". Not at all. Obviously if you're not offended, you're not in need of an apology, therefore the apology doesn't concern those who are not offended. At some point, people need to fucking understand how language work. And yeah, that's my professional realm, so at points I get really annoyed (can you feel the slight annoyance in my latest posts ) about stuff like this, because people just twist stuff around with their own attribution bias and imply stuff that just aren't there. Anyway. Lesnar trending yet ? Yes ? No ? No. Maybe at Blood Money Mania. Yeah probably not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strobogo Posted September 19, 2021 Report Share Posted September 19, 2021 I can not see any circumstance where Vince pulls Brock short of being charged with a sex crime or arrested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted September 19, 2021 Report Share Posted September 19, 2021 Of course not. Plus, they are performing for a guy who had a journalist murdered, so really now, an old story about showing your dick... Speaking of which (and airplaines, and lawsuits settlements), considering the ridiculous settlements lately, the infamous delayed airplane debacle would make a fucking insane Dark Side of the Ring episode. But no one will talk about it as most are still employed there anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strobogo Posted September 19, 2021 Report Share Posted September 19, 2021 Just give Karl Anderson a couple of brewskis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted September 19, 2021 Report Share Posted September 19, 2021 Honestly, people bringing up Brock are just engaging in whataboutism and it's annoying. Of course showing your peen to co workers is not acceptable but that doesn't invalidate holding other sexual abusers to task. You can be mad at one abuser without having to be expected to be equally mad at every abuser that ever existed. It's exhausting and comes off as a way of getting people to stop talking entirely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted September 19, 2021 Report Share Posted September 19, 2021 Nevermind working with MbS for the Saudi shows (that's not just a WWE issue hehe), Vince had Snuka on his shows (and some have said he worked to cover that up). Also, something that popped up recently which while not directly related to DSotR, but yet linked to the old "boys in the back" mentality: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted September 19, 2021 Report Share Posted September 19, 2021 27 minutes ago, sek69 said: Honestly, people bringing up Brock are just engaging in whataboutism and it's annoying. Of course showing your peen to co workers is not acceptable but that doesn't invalidate holding other sexual abusers to task. Well, Tommy Dreamer is not a sexual abuser. Yet he received more attention and real-life repercussions because of how the documentary was formatted than one of the actual sexual abuser that was mentioned (and who would not respond BTW). So the neverending outrage about Dreamer, including, as I predicted, his apology, gets kinda ridiculous and yes, annoying, after a while. So yeah, I'm bringing up Lesnar over and over again because I'm a dick like that (but I don't do the helicopter). 26 minutes ago, KawadaSmile said: Also, something that popped up recently which while not directly related to DSotR, but yet linked to the old "boys in the back" mentality: Well, that illustrates the point Meltz was making this week-end about the mentality of "made men" compared to low-carder, men or women, in the locker room. Taker, that great locker room leader. As we probably will learn more about next week in the Kanyon episode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted September 19, 2021 Report Share Posted September 19, 2021 Someone dismissing abusive behavior and questioning the motives of the abused party speaking out is just as much of a shitbag as the abuser IMO because their behavior emboldens abusers to keep doing what they do. I won't feel any sorrow about Tommy getting dragged for putting his entire ass on display. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted September 19, 2021 Report Share Posted September 19, 2021 24 minutes ago, El-P said: Well, Tommy Dreamer is not a sexual abuser. Yet he received more attention and real-life repercussions because of how the documentary was formatted than one of the actual sexual abuser that was mentioned (and who would not respond BTW). So the neverending outrage about Dreamer, including, as I predicted, his apology, gets kinda ridiculous and yes, annoying, after a while. So yeah, I'm bringing up Lesnar over and over again because I'm a dick like that (but I don't do the helicopter). So why aren't you bringing up Dustin Rhodes over and over again? The behavior he was accused of in the other flight attendant's lawsuit is far more egregious than exposing yourself to a coworker. And unlike Lesnar, he was made out to be something of a hero in the episode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted September 19, 2021 Report Share Posted September 19, 2021 10 minutes ago, NintendoLogic said: So why aren't you bringing up Dustin Rhodes over and over again? Actually, I brought up Dustin Rhodes before in this very thread and was the first (and only one thus far I believe) to do so. I don't bring him up in the context of the Dreamer discussion because it pertains to the Dark Side of the Ring documentary and the reactions on social medias (and this board). And Dustin was not portrayed as an abuser on the documentary, so I can't blame people who watched it and aren't aware of the details of the lawsuits (hell, I only learned about it myself after having watched the show) of not knowing that Dustin was part of the abuse too. The three sexual abusers in the doc are Flair, Hall & Lesnar. Hall is so far off the radar that I'm not shocked he's not mentioned on social media. Lesnar ? Kinda different case.... (would be pretty interesting to have statistics on the number of tweets about Flair/Dreamer/Hall/Lesnar... not to mention honestly the most horrifying, to me, extract which is the RVD bit about what pro-wrestling culture was. But it would be too depressing.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strobogo Posted September 20, 2021 Report Share Posted September 20, 2021 That clip of Beefcake making the rounds again almost unable to contain his joy and giddiness laughing his way through talking about how the Rockers would drug women, have their way with them while they were passed out, and then leave them out in the halls naked and unconscious is some real sociopath shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted September 20, 2021 Report Share Posted September 20, 2021 4 hours ago, sek69 said: Someone dismissing abusive behavior and questioning the motives of the abused party speaking out is just as much of a shitbag as the abuser IMO because their behavior emboldens abusers to keep doing what they do. I won't feel any sorrow about Tommy getting dragged for putting his entire ass on display. and he was in a current position of power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted September 20, 2021 Report Share Posted September 20, 2021 It's OK, guys. Dreamer has been forgiven by the only person whose views matter in this situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted September 20, 2021 Report Share Posted September 20, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laz Posted September 20, 2021 Report Share Posted September 20, 2021 That's on par with most efed graphics circa 2005. Which means it's funny in multiple ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rah Posted September 20, 2021 Report Share Posted September 20, 2021 11 hours ago, strobogo said: That clip of Beefcake making the rounds again almost unable to contain his joy and giddiness laughing his way through talking about how the Rockers would drug women, have their way with them while they were passed out, and then leave them out in the halls naked and unconscious is some real sociopath shit. The Rockers - like, Shawn Michaels and Marty Jannetty? What the fuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmare007 Posted September 20, 2021 Report Share Posted September 20, 2021 2 minutes ago, Rah said: The Rockers - like, Shawn Michaels and Marty Jannetty? Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkdoc Posted September 20, 2021 Report Share Posted September 20, 2021 Marty used to post on the Wrestlingclassics forums and openly bragged about this, to the point that a board that knowingly kept KKK members around banned him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fxnj Posted September 21, 2021 Report Share Posted September 21, 2021 Damn, almost makes it seem like 90's politicking dickhead Shawn was a toned down version of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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