Dark Side of the Ring

[C.S.]

My Take: My Brother Randy and Liz’s Episode on Viceland’s Dark Side of the Ring (Lanny Poffo)

https://prowrestlingstories.com/pro-wrestling-stories/randy-savage-miss-elizabeth-viceland-dark-side-of-the-ring/

Great read. Interesting insights, and Lanny isn't afraid to be blunt!

[BruiserBrody]

The Twitter for this series is very much worth following. They are sharing some unique pics each week. 

 

This one is from a Japan High School who made Brody their mascot after his death. 

[sek69]

13 hours ago, C.S. said:

My Take: My Brother Randy and Liz’s Episode on Viceland’s Dark Side of the Ring (Lanny Poffo)

https://prowrestlingstories.com/pro-wrestling-stories/randy-savage-miss-elizabeth-viceland-dark-side-of-the-ring/

Great read. Interesting insights, and Lanny isn't afraid to be blunt!

That was a good read, Lanny always comes off as as one of the guys in wrestling who seems to bullshit the least. Not sure why he went so hard on poor Bam Bam though. 

The biggest takeaway here should be we could have had a Savage-Shawn match but Vince was too stubborn. 

[flyonthewall2983]

7 hours ago, sek69 said:

That was a good read, Lanny always comes off as as one of the guys in wrestling who seems to bullshit the least. Not sure why he went so hard on poor Bam Bam though. 

Hates fat people. It's something passed down from his brother and father. 

 

[C.S.]

Finally watched the Brody one. Best so far. 

Such a sad, tragic, and senseless crime. My heart broke for Barbara Goodish and her son. Bruiser was so much more well-spoken than I expected.

Who was the narrator? Was it Mick Foley? I am the worst at figuring out such things. But whoever it was, he was much better than Dutch Mantell in previous episodes (and Duch was good too).

I went on YouTube (on Roku) after, and oddly enough, this video was the first one that popped up. Mostly a waste of time, mostly incoherent, and mostly people who didn't know what the hell they were talking about (some by admission). Bill Apter and - of all people - Sunny probably came across the best. Nash sounded like a tool. Never mind Sandman, New Jack, and others rambling about God knows what.

 

 

[hammerva]

Maybe I bought into the hype but I found the Von Erichs one very disappointing.   The two biggest negatives I have on it:

1.  The order is completely messed up.  I don't think you can tell the story in the order of one brother to another.  It is how the progression of things happened.  For example Lance Von Erich didn't occur before Mike got toxic shock syndrome he debut because of Mike.   Telling the story of Chris Von Erich before Kerry doesn't make any sense.  If you tell the story like "in 1986 these things happened" then it becomes more tragic and shocking.

2.  It did nothing to explain how much responsibility Fritz had in it in this whole tragedy.  I mean they talked about Jackie dying as maybe the spark that cause Fritz to be this way.  But it completely ignores Fritz over pushing of his sons to be larger than life "good Christians from Texas" over how reality was,  treating each son after David as the next David, the desperate attempts to revive the legacy like the fake heart attack angle in 1987 and much more.  

It still has some of the fantasy of the Von Erich lore but Kevin was a lot more honest then he usually is.   This was more about Kevin and how he is last Von Erich trying to cope and live then about the actual tragedy of World Class and the family.   

 

[sek69]

Considering it was basically Kevin recounting the tale, it's not surprising Fritz would have escaped a lot of responsibility. I think it was telling when he was talking about Fritz pointing the gun at him when he was addled with brain cancer, he said "I'm glad he died" and almost as if he realized how that sounded, added he didn't want him to suffer anymore. There was just something about the way he said it that sounded like for a second the mask slipped and you heard an angry son who loved a dad that couldn't stop pushing his kids no matter the cost.

The low point of the show for me was David Manning. It's one thing for Kevin to minimize his family's issues, but was embarrassing watching Manning still kayfabing for his boss all these decades and deceased Von Erichs later. 

[El-P]

Agree about Manning kayfabing the fuck out of Fritz, painting the picture of all the boys desperately wanting to be pushed out there. Lack of drug issues while in Texas was also pretty rich, you almost get the feeling Kerry barely got drugged up before his accident and going to the WWF.

It was still excellent overall, and very much about how Kevin coped with all of this tragedy. 

[flyonthewall2983]

Inaccuracies aside this was a strong episode for Kevin alone. On top of feeling sorry for him having to dredge this stuff up again on camera, he seemed to be more raw about it then I'd ever seen him in interviews. The mental image of both Kevin and his mother running for the woods after finding out about David is pretty strong. Her story in all of this has sadly fallen through the cracks, for whatever reason. 

[BruiserBrody]

The story of Chris' suicide hit me the hardest.  I am not sure I've ever heard Kevin was the one who found him, much less that it sounded at least temporarily preventable. 

[The Thread Killer]

15 hours ago, hammerva said:

Kevin was a lot more honest then he usually is.   This was more about Kevin and how he is last Von Erich trying to cope and live then about the actual tragedy of World Class and the family.  

 

5 hours ago, El-P said:

It was still excellent overall, and very much about how Kevin coped with all of this tragedy. 

 

3 hours ago, flyonthewall2983 said:

Inaccuracies aside this was a strong episode for Kevin alone. On top of feeling sorry for him having to dredge this stuff up again on camera, he seemed to be more raw about it then I'd ever seen him in interviews. The mental image of both Kevin and his mother running for the woods after finding out about David is pretty strong.

 

32 minutes ago, BruiserBrody said:

The story of Chris' suicide hit me the hardest.  I am not sure I've ever heard Kevin was the one who found him, much less that it sounded at least temporarily preventable. 

Agreed, wholeheartedly.  I've seen the WWE World Class Documentary and I've seen Heroes of World Class, and this might have not covered any new ground, but this really did show how hard it has been for Kevin to carry all this around with him, and who could ever possibly blame him.  I can't even imagine the pain this man has to deal with every day having lost five brothers and his father...not to mention how his father behaved towards Kevin before he died.  That whole story about Kevin trying to steal the rifle and get sent to jail, only to have the guy tell him that he loved him was heartbreaking.  All of these shows have been very dark, but this episode actually made me still feel sad after watching it - like it stuck with me.

[El-P]

I dunno, I didn't find it depressing like Heroes of World Class (which was much more complete as far as telling the whole history in its context, obviously). The whole "It takes courage to live, not to die" bit resonated with me, it's very true. Kevin seems like he's in a good place today, finally, despite all of this. He's one peculiar character too. 

[Loss]

I've always heard it framed as there being only two types of courage: the courage to live and the courage to die. Dying does of course require courage in some situations. But that's a bigger conversation than we have capacity for, most likely.

[El-P]

55 minutes ago, Charles (Loss) said:

I've always heard it framed as there being only two types of courage: the courage to live and the courage to die. Dying does of course require courage in some situations. But that's a bigger conversation than we have capacity for, most likely.

Oh, of course, totally agree. In Kevin's context though, I thought it made perfect sense. It probably took him a whole lot of courage to make the choice of living.

[Loss]

Absolutely. I was thinking not just about him, but his mother. Any parent having to bury their children is horrible, but having to do it as many times as she did. I can't imagine.

[BruiserBrody]

I talked to Jules Strongbow about the Von Erich episode since he was there for several months starting in August or so of 1985. 
He had a unique take on the family deaths.  When he arrived in the territory, Chris Von Erich ran up to him and said "Hey Chief, I have Indian arrowheads from the family property!" 
Jules: "Oh? From where?"
Chris: "There's an Indian burial ground we go play in"
Jules backed away and asked Chris if he ever has dreams about being chased by Indians. Chris turned white and asked "How do you know that?!!?" 
Jules: "Chris, you need to take the arrow heads and some tobacco and put it back on the graves or else the spirits will keep coming for you and your family." 
Apparently the spirits already had taken David, and since Chris did not heed the advice, they took Mike, Kerry and Chris too. 
 

[Hawkeye12]

The Von Erich's episode was good, but it's nothing the ESPN 30 for 30 story didn't already cover in half the time as they both focused on Kevin's survival and the peace he's found.   Maybe not everyone saw that piece though.  

[Captain Redneck]

The Von Erich episode was really bad with Kevin putting Fritz as this "God fearing man, who only did the best for his family". Fritz was a scumbag who only cared about his and the families image then the health and well being of his boys. David Manning was a kayfabe MoFo during the whole thing and Kevin has maybe 10 brain cells left, so he has no idea on what the fuck is/was going on. Really want to see the Gino Hernandez one the most.

[C.S.]

This show seems to alternate between great episodes and terrible ones.

1. Savage: Good

2. Montreal Screwjob: Awful

3. Brody: Great

4. Von Erichs: Not great

I felt for Kevin. He seems like he's both completely broken and strangely at peace - a jarring dichotomy, but completely understandable.

I didn't mind David Manning as much as most of you. I thought he added a couple of good details at least.

Dave Meltzer was given the Bruce Prichard role in this episode and didn't have much to contribute as a result because he wasn't allotted much airtime. I thought it was funny when Kevin said Mike (I think it was Mike) was a tremendous athlete and then they cut to Meltzer saying he was a terrible athlete.

Jim Cornette once again came off as the dirt worst. He was practically smiling while recounting these tragic happenings. In this case, it really didn't pay to bring in a "wrestling historian" who was so fucking detached from the people involved that he couldn't even pretend to feel an emotional connection. On the one hand, it's good that he didn't fake it, but they really should've gone with someone closer to the situation. If that wasn't possible, maybe Meltzer and his super-messy office should have been given more screen-time instead of Cornette.

BTW, whoever said Jim's fans are the pits was right on point. I posted something on Twitter about the Montreal episode turning into a pointless pissing contest between Cornette and Russo (basically the same thing I posted in this thread), and not only did the mama's boy man-child Cornette see it, tell me to "fuck awf," and blocked me (), I had to deal with days of notifications from his redneck sycophant followers.  If Russo saw my tweet, he didn't block me over it - and none of his fans behaved like idiots either. Maybe I just got lucky in the latter instance?  

Edit: Oops! It was the Jim Cornette Experience thread that talked about his Twitter fans, not this one. I conflated the two threads. Oh well. 

 

[flyonthewall2983]

12 hours ago, BruiserBrody said:

I talked to Jules Strongbow about the Von Erich episode since he was there for several months starting in August or so of 1985. 
He had a unique take on the family deaths.  When he arrived in the territory, Chris Von Erich ran up to him and said "Hey Chief, I have Indian arrowheads from the family property!" 
Jules: "Oh? From where?"
Chris: "There's an Indian burial ground we go play in"
Jules backed away and asked Chris if he ever has dreams about being chased by Indians. Chris turned white and asked "How do you know that?!!?" 
Jules: "Chris, you need to take the arrow heads and some tobacco and put it back on the graves or else the spirits will keep coming for you and your family." 
Apparently the spirits already had taken David, and since Chris did not heed the advice, they took Mike, Kerry and Chris too. 
 

I'm on the fence about curses and such but in such an extreme case as theirs something like this doesn't surprise me. I wonder about this especially in thinking about Fritz's whole Nazi gimmick, and how extreme his heat would have been. It's not impossible to consider someone could have put a gypsy curse on him, and his family. 

[Johnny Sorrow]

What the fuck?  I was about to write about how awesome the Von Erich episode was and why....and I'm reading about Native American and Gypsy curses being taken seriously?

[El-P]

That thread just got Papa Shangoed.

[hammerva]

Yeah I assume that Jules from that same Native American hotbed of New Jersey like his dad was     But I also believe that Chris probably thought he was an actual Native American

 

[SirEdger]

Man, that was the ultimate rib by Jules Strongbow.

[sek69]

The thing about curses is they are as real as the person being "cursed" believes they are.  That being said, it's a pretty f'ed up thing for Jules to say to a young kid who already lost a brother.