WWE TV 04/22 - 04/26: Institutionalized Insanity

[Mad Dog]

That's also a huge problem with WWE TV that doesn't get talked about enough. No one talks like a fucking human being anymore and I think it turns a lot of people off.

[Badlittlekitten]

I wish WWE was aimed at casual fans. Everything they put out is alienating to casual/ lapsed fans. It's just guys having workrate matches for no reason. No characters, no story hooks, no pizzazz. Just matches and matches and matches. 

[C.S.]

I was re-reading about the old Lio Rush-Emma Twitter incident, and man, Jack Gallagher comes off as super, SUPER, SUPER racist here.

Quote

Apologising because people didn't like your joke, not for joking about someone losing their job. Also, try the English classes at the PC. https://t.co/tZnaDzqB5K

— Jack A. Gallagher (@GentlemanJackG) October 29, 2017

https://www.cagesideseats.com/2017/10/29/16567600/lio-rush-jokes-emma-release-asuka-sean-waltman-rosa-mendes-peyton-royce-bray-wyatt-tessa-blanchard

[Herodes]

One of the biggest problem is these geeks they have as champions, none of them are superstars. Seth and Kofi suck and Becky is the fucking worst with her terrible attempts at acting and boring matches. Instead of larger than life superstars there are dweebs who got pity pushes because apparently heat and angles suck and now the stories are about “under appreciated” charisma-less nerds getting their “moment”. 

[KawadaSmile]

I know most of our complaints are valid, but isn't much of the money loss a result of once again Saudi Arabia being a tyranny? Like, a couple of days ago they just beheaded over 30 people on bullshit charges, that's gotta be the main issue here. A similar drop in stock happened when Kashoggi was killed, IIRC.

 

In other news: Dean Malenko is no longer with WWE as a road agent.

[PeteF3]

5 hours ago, Mad Dog said:

2. They still book and present a product for casual fans. There are no fucking casual WWE fans anymore. There's too much WWE content on TV in a week for someone to be a casual now. All they have left is their core audience and they've been in a pissing match with them for the last 5 years.

Jim Cornette's reviews of recent WWE programming on recent Experiences also illustrates that they're fucking terrible at actually booking to these so-called "casual fans." Cornette is about as casual as it gets (the first Raw review was prompted by him tuning in to see the Revival tag title match--it's not like he was forced into it) and in half or more of the segments he had no idea what was going on or who the people involved were supposed to be. 

[Strummer]

Also think it's clear that with the pushes of Kofi and Becky they don't want anymore hijacking by the hardcore fans.  Dave has said they don't want to be seen as the "bad guy" promotion that's a killjoy to their audience. So yeah it's tough because as soon as the hardcore fans see they are getting behind someone to appeal to the casuals again (i.e. Roman)  the fan revolts could start right back up again.  The fan survey stuff is interesting because apparently they are taking it seriously and this isn't like Russo in wcw who ignored all the results.

so yeah a lot of this is PR. I think it's a constant battle for the company to worry about pr/pleasing hardcores and trying to expand their audience at the same time

[El-P]

6 hours ago, KawadaSmile said:

much of the money loss gain a result of once again Saudi Arabia

There, corrected for you.

I dunno, it seems like the Saudi stuff mostly flew under the radar of the mainstream anyway.

9 hours ago, Mad Dog said:

That's also a huge problem with WWE TV that doesn't get talked about enough. No one talks like a fucking human being anymore and I think it turns a lot of people off.

It's unbearable. "He throws Roman into the WWE Universe !". What the fuck. They all talk like corporate drones. The storyline is about corporate drones either "fighting" the bosses or getting their due of being in the WWE Universe for ever. They are no pro-wrestling superstars. They are no super-heroes. They are drones. Who the fuck wants to see a bunch of drones fight to get recognize as the best drone ?

But again, we're into the Brand Era, and that's not just a pro-wrestling thing. It's an übercapitalism thing. They want people to be their own "brand" and be brainless drones, while the insane amount of money the big companies make have no relation whatsoever with what they are *actually* producing (if they produce anything, that is). The WWE is a reflection of that.

[SomethingSavage]

10 hours ago, Badlittlekitten said:

I wish WWE was aimed at casual fans. Everything they put out is alienating to casual/ lapsed fans. It's just guys having workrate matches for no reason. No characters, no story hooks, no pizzazz. Just matches and matches and matches. 

Bingo. Bullseye. Yahtzee. Whateverthefuck. But you're right.

It's a treadmill of time-killing, filler wrestling matches that advance nothing, resolve nothing, and say nothing. It's all an exercise to kill time. It's lazy, effortless stuff. All motion. Zero emotion.

There are no characters with clearly defined traits anymore. No personalities with actual motivations. No personal conflicts.

The only "stories" revolve around title reigns and numbers of days. That's why their treatment of titles is so fucking scatterbrained. They can't make up their mind what they want to do with the belts. One minute they want more belts; the next they're merging them. But they HAVE to keep them around, because that's all they know how to book anymore. Their whole booking strategy is about title shots and "historic" reigns and firsts & other assorted horseshit that literally means nothing to anyone.

Then, when they do decide to get bold and run an "angle", it all occurs off television. It's all going down on social media, so people are often left scratching their asses and trying to figure out WHAT the fuck the announcers are even going on about. Because they TELL the fans about it instead of SHOWING them on television. Because God forbid they cut out 10 minutes from one of their four 25-minute matches each week to run a money angle or something.

It's terrible. Someone earlier in this thread mentioned the booking being aimed at casual fans & falling short as a result. I couldn't disagree more. NOTHING about modern WWE is aimed at a casual audience. Nobody outside the wrestling bubble has any interest in this nonsense.

I mean, kids are drawn to some of the characters and the silly comedy. I see that with my nephew. But that's about it. Even then, I'd say the long-ass matches are detrimental to sustaining that same audience. Because kids are there for the entrances and the catchphrases. But they zone out during the long, repetitive matches once they're educated that the outcomes don't actually matter.

Nothing sticks. Nothing is canonized. Nothing is made to matter beyond the moment it actually happens.

That has been their process for years & years, but I do believe it's only a matter of time before they hit a brick wall because it.

[El-P]

Just watch iMPACT, people. It's fun.

[Stiva]

11 hours ago, Mad Dog said:

That's also a huge problem with WWE TV that doesn't get talked about enough. No one talks like a fucking human being anymore and I think it turns a lot of people off.

Even the website has a ton of Vince-isms. I read the recap of Smackdown and we had "Kevin Owens SAVAGELY attacked The New Day", "Elias and Shane McMahon BRUTALLY ASSAULTED Roman Reigns" and "Lars Sullivan DEMOLISHED several superstars" Without going into why you're running 3 heel beatdowns on the same show, you can almost hear Michael Cole saying all of those sentences as you're reading them.

[C.S.]

Tony Atlas on Sasha Banks: "She made the biggest mistake of her wrestling career."

https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2019/04/wwe-hall-of-famer-says-sasha-banks-made-the-biggest-mistake-653487/

[Loss]

They have a real issue with announcing that I never see changing. But they don't have a credible salesman to get everyone over. Jim Ross came across as a guy who spoke his mind. Michael Cole has never come across as anything more than someone saying what he has been told to say. Him praising someone doesn't help them get over because he doesn't have any credibility himself. I think making the brand the real star *could* work if they did more to protect their institutions -- championships, referees, announcers, backstage interviewers, etc. as important and worthwhile.

[FMKK]

Malenko gone as an agent. There's lots going on behind the scenes that we don't know a lot about in terms of comings and goings. I wonder if all the recent TNA acquisitions are considered more 'HHH alligned' or anything.

[Mad Dog]

20 minutes ago, Charles (Loss) said:

They have a real issue with announcing that I never see changing. But they don't have a credible salesman to get everyone over. Jim Ross came across as a guy who spoke his mind. Michael Cole has never come across as anything more than someone saying what he has been told to say. Him praising someone doesn't help them get over because he doesn't have any credibility himself. I think making the brand the real star *could* work if they did more to protect their institutions -- championships, referees, announcers, backstage interviewers, etc. as important and worthwhile.

My wife watched the Mania Weekend Chikara show with me and did a podcast about it with me. One of the characters that stood out to her was as Hermit Crab. Not for anything she did in the ring but because of the announcers talking about what a jerk he was. Mike Quackenbush said on commentary "he charged me to take a picture with him". That is something really really small but it made him memorable to someone that never saw him before and she wanted to see more of him. 

[Loss]

I think in the case of WWE, it's too embedded in their culture. They don't have credits at the end of their shows and they don't seem to respect people they see as disposable. I think treating announcers as frightened mouthpieces instead of voices of authority is a symptom of that.

[Strummer]

Dave on WOR said before he asked for his release Harper was supposed to come back and feud with Sami Zayn but it was dropped.  Then Harper asked for his release

[El-P]

2 hours ago, FMKK said:

Malenko gone as an agent. There's lots going on behind the scenes that we don't know a lot about in terms of comings and goings. I wonder if all the recent TNA acquisitions are considered more 'HHH alligned' or anything.

I have a hard time figuring why Jeff Jarrett, Abyss, Sonjay Dutt & co would be more aligned with HHH. I mean, where would the relationship come from ? But yeah, after Arn Anderson (whose firing was nowhere as near the clear cut affair it looked to be BTW, the whole "he let Alicia performed while under the influence" has been disputed, and apparently a lot of the talent didn't agree with the firing), now Dean Malenko. Man. Imagine all those former WCW guys ending up working under Cody Rhodes, backed up by a big-time financial backer with TV on Turner broadcast. Like... what goes around comes around... Sure is a fascinating period.

[FMKK]

26 minutes ago, El-P said:

I have a hard time figuring why Jeff Jarrett, Abyss, Sonjay Dutt & co would be more aligned with HHH. I mean, where would the relationship come from ? But yeah, after Arn Anderson (whose firing was nowhere as near the clear cut affair it looked to be BTW, the whole "he let Alicia performed while under the influence" has been disputed, and apparently a lot of the talent didn't agree with the firing), now Dean Malenko. Man. Imagine all those former WCW guys ending up working under Cody Rhodes, backed up by a big-time financial backer with TV on Turner broadcast. Like... what goes around comes around... Sure is a fascinating period.

Wasn't Borash seen as a HHH hire? Maybe that's the connection.

[sek69]

I would have thought Matt Hardy put in a good word for Borash since he was so involved in all the TNA Broken Universe stuff. 

3 hours ago, C.S. said:

Tony Atlas on Sasha Banks: "She made the biggest mistake of her wrestling career."

https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2019/04/wwe-hall-of-famer-says-sasha-banks-made-the-biggest-mistake-653487/

He's not wrong here. I feel the company will absolutely make an example out of her if she doesn't decide to come back. If they feel Luke Harper is important enough to deny a release and extend his contract when they've barely done a thing with him, there's no way Sasha playing chicken with them is going to end well for her. 

Things like this are why it's vital for a company like AEW to succeed, the only way someone like Vince is going to not treat people like disposable playthings is if there's a market for them to ply their trade elsewhere in the US. They don't even have to beat WWE, as long as they are in the ballpark as a viable alternative the whole business will be improved.

[El-P]

1 hour ago, FMKK said:

Wasn't Borash seen as a HHH hire? Maybe that's the connection.

I knew I was forgetting one name, yes.

1 hour ago, sek69 said:

He's not wrong here. I feel the company will absolutely make an example out of her if she doesn't decide to come back.

Which is complete and utter bullshit, of course. BTW, Luke Harper being all professional and nice about asking his release, which apparently was the only reason why no one bagged on him online while Sasha got shit on (*wink wink nudge nudge*), sure worked wonders for him. He got totally fucked over. So there. Sasha is still way young, she's got her whole life and career in front of her if she wants to. Hey, maybe they'll make her hate pro-wrestling too. That, they know how to do, look at the way they make their own audience shrink...

[Migs]

11 hours ago, Strummer said:

Also think it's clear that with the pushes of Kofi and Becky they don't want anymore hijacking by the hardcore fans.  Dave has said they don't want to be seen as the "bad guy" promotion that's a killjoy to their audience. So yeah it's tough because as soon as the hardcore fans see they are getting behind someone to appeal to the casuals again (i.e. Roman)  the fan revolts could start right back up again.  The fan survey stuff is interesting because apparently they are taking it seriously and this isn't like Russo in wcw who ignored all the results.

so yeah a lot of this is PR. I think it's a constant battle for the company to worry about pr/pleasing hardcores and trying to expand their audience at the same time

But shouldn't this be the goal? They can thread the needle if they just push people when they're hot and see if they catch on with casuals. The problem wasn't the Roman push, it was that they tried to wait, and in the interim, the organic support Roman had disappeared. Wrestling booking is all about riding the wave.

[Migs]

6 hours ago, SomethingSavage said:

Nothing sticks. Nothing is canonized. Nothing is made to matter beyond the moment it actually happens.

Also a key point. What happened last year at Wrestlemania that gets talked about? Meanwhile, you watch Savage-Steamboat and *during the match* they're describing it as one of the all-time greats and then kept it up until people believed it.

[Mad Dog]

19 minutes ago, El-P said:

I knew I was forgetting one name, yes.

Which is complete and utter bullshit, of course. BTW, Luke Harper being all professional and nice about asking his release, which apparently was the only reason why no one bagged on him online while Sasha got shit on (*wink wink nudge nudge*), sure worked wonders for him. He got totally fucked over. So there. Sasha is still way young, she's got her whole life and career in front of her if she wants to. Hey, maybe they'll make her hate pro-wrestling too. That, they know how to do, look at the way they make their own audience shrink...

There are WWE apologists shitting on Harper for posting about it on Facebook actually. 

[C.S.]

2 hours ago, Mad Dog said:

There are WWE apologists shitting on Harper for posting about it on Facebook actually. 

They're idiots, but at the same time, I don't understand the strategy of posting about a release before it's signed, sealed, and delivered. That obviously doesn't work.