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Jon Moxley on Talk is Jericho

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I love how the consensus I'm hearing is that Moxley's story is basically CM Punk's from the Cabana podcast minus the part where the doctor tried to kill him.

Honestly, I don't get why anyone who cares about creativity would even consider going to WWE at this point. Unless you can work them into giving you an absolutely stupid money deal, your best possible outcome is to become an NXT darling before you get called up to chase R-Truth for the 24/7 title. 

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You're telling me that Vince McMahon is out of touch and WWE's creative process is broken? Stop the presses!

It's always great to hear detailed first-hand accounts of Vince's insanity, though.

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There are some great quotes in here. Super fun listen. Listening to him shit all over the creative is very entertaining. 

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I'm only 25 minutes in and this is already a "must listen."  Obviously, the ads every 10 minutes are annoying, but they're only 90-120 seconds or so. I'd put this right up there with the CM Punk podcast and Austin's best episodes. On NPR they call them "driveway moments" when the story is so good that even when you reach your destination, you want to stay in your car and keep listening. That was exactly what happened to me when I got to work. 

I'll also admit that I was wrong the countless times I theorized that Moxley's unhappiness had less to do with Creative and more to do just being burnt out on life as a WWE wrestler (the injuries, the travel, even the wrestling itself). I believed he had far more creative lee-way than what seems to be the case and that many of the bad ideas he talks about originated from him. Which is why I kinda soured on him - because I thought, "Wow, this guy's idea of what's good is terrible." Its nice to hear that he thought all the prop comedy over the years was stupid and only got worse as time went on. I also liked the part where he mentioned that there are plenty of guys backstage who speak up, but that its not so easy because (a) even meeting with Vince sounds like an hours long ordeal, (b) convincing him of your vision as opposed to his is not easy, and (c) the label of being a "complainer" may not mean you'll get fired, but its still not a good thing. 

I'm figuring things are going to get very interesting over the next couple years if AEW stays afloat. If I think of how the company's treated some of their "main eventers," it makes me wonder if we've haven't seen the last of Prince Devitt, Kevin Steen, and Bryan Danielson after all...

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Just beginning and it's a great listen. 

The CM Punk analogy is spot on. CM punk is a guy who loved pro-wrestling and ended up hating it because of working in WWE. Mox was almost at the same point when he decided to quit. This company is run by idiots and is a totally toxic workplace. Yeah, apart from making big money (that is, if you can), no idea why anyone would want to go there at this point when there are some options at there.

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Another analogue with Punk and Mox - they both have spouses who still work in the company they're trashing.

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Moxley sounds like Punk's mindset right before MITB 2011. Completely burned out and tired of being trapped creatively and constantly having to fight for every single thing. Mox was able to leave just in time before his love for wrestling was gone though, which those 2 and a half extra years basically did for Punk.

It will never not be interesting hearing this backstage stories that confirm every perception we have about Vince and WWE's "creative" process.

 

HHH was very smart in using Regal as his J.R and poaching all this talent from indys and overseas. Timing was perfect as there was no other company that could stop them from taking these wrestlers from them, so he basically got anyone he wanted.

But a lot of those deals will be coming to an end in the next 1-3 years so it will be VERY interesting to see how many they can actually keep before even having them on the main roster with a sustained run. They have so many people right now that it's impossible to have them all happy even they did everything perfectly - and we know that's not a realistic scenario anyway -, specially when there's an option like AEW that has good money and it's fanbase is made of the people that connected with those wrestlers the most.

 

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47 minutes ago, ...TG said:

Another analogue with Punk and Mox - they both have spouses who still work in the company they're trashing.

The difference is that things might not get to a point where Renee will feel the need to leave because she's stuck between a rock and a hard place like AJ Lee was towards the end. Mox did everything to ensure WWE wouldn't put Renee in a bad spot because of him wanting to leave the company so badly. But yeah, it's safe to say that he left at the right time in his career.

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45 minutes ago, Migs said:

This is amazing, but also love Jericho kayfabing at the beginning. Great little detail.

Yeah, that was really cool. 

18 minutes ago, Jmare007 said:

HHH was very smart in using Regal as his J.R and poaching all this talent from indys and overseas. Timing was perfect as there was no other company that could stop them from taking these wrestlers from them, so he basically got anyone he wanted.

The end of the NXT "indie raid" era ? It would be interesting to just make a list of all those people and what they actually accomplished in the company, compared to what they could have accomplished. It also would mean that NXT and the PC would have to serve as an actual development territory, which it really has not been in a long long time now. And who came from that system that ended up being successful ? NJ Young Lions with a few month of experience all look better than most of the guys and girls who have been there for years. Thus far, the NXT program has been way less effective than Corny's OVW in term of producing stars, despite an insane influx of already developed talent. Of course it mostly comes down to the fact they all got fucked once they moved to the main roster (apart from a few guys, like Nakamura who obviously didn't give a flying fuck anymore).

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8 minutes ago, SirEdger said:

Mox did everything to ensure WWE wouldn't put Renee in a bad spot because of him wanting to leave the company so badly.

Okay, but my point is that I can't imagine that doing a podcast like this this helps her. Not to say that Renee needs his help - she was great at the talking-head thing before they moved her to commentary and she'd be scooped up pretty quickly when/if she leaves.

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I don't personally think that Mox doing Jericho's podcast would change anything as to how Vince will decide to treat Renee going forward. If he eventually decides to remove her completely from commentary, I don't believe the podcast will be the determining factor as much as Mox leaving WWE in itself.

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Renee is utter garbage on commentary. I have been sitting on this for a while I just need to let it out. She is even worse than Booker in saying absolutely nonsensical trash. The breaking point for me is when The Revival got caught cheating numerous times and the ref called them on their bullshit ultimately leading to their loss to the Lucha House Party. She had been pro-Luchadores the whole match and then goes on a rant that the Revival was under the microscope the whole match and that the ref cost the Revival the match. THE REVIVAL WAS FUCKING CHEATING! Thats what the ref is supposed to do! It was maddening. She just says the most random things that have absolutely nothing to do with anything. Cole/Corey give her a pass most of the time, but every so often they just have to let her have it. She is brutal on commentary. I am not an advocate for anyone losing their job but I wish they put her back as the lead interviewer (Charly is very good at what she does though) or Greg Gumbel role. So if Ambrose's departure leads to her and she lands a deal with AEW that sounds great to me. Hoepfully they dont put her on commentary. 

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Yeah she’s insufferable. Although to be fair they are all terrible. Just a bunch of mini Vince’s. Another highlight is when Sami Zayn came out and she was all “I love this guy!  Let’s go Sami!” and two minutes later she was screaming how much she couldn’t stand him and he should shut up. Awful. She was so much more likeable as a panellist.

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She's actually kind of okay with just Michael Cole but that was the Mae Young Classic. I blame Corey Graves as he is just overbearing and insufferable at times. But I have been saying for awhile now that the three man booth is garbage and it doesn't work. It doesn't help that the third man in the booth is always someone awful like Booker T, Coach, Saxton or Renee. It's really telling that Saxton seems tolerable compared to the other options. I will give 205 Live credit. They have made it work but they usually have someone like Austin Aries or Aiden English in the third spot and they get to be the Mike Tenay/Larry Z expert role.

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Coincidentally, I posted on Twitter earlier that Rene leaving WWE for AEW to become Jon Moxley's valet seems like it would be beneficial to all involved. It gets her off of the WWE commentary booth, still gives her a job & she would be working with her husband again. Seems like win/win.

Of course I have no idea what her WWE contract is like or anything. 

It should be noted though that she was great as a backstage interviewer. I'm sure some of the reason why she's bad at commentary is it being a 3-person booth plus constantly having someone in their ear, but a lot of it is still on her. 

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She has no role on the commentary team. She isn't play by play and she isn't color. What exactly is she supposed to be adding to the show when she speaks? She isn't even a wrestler or a former manager so she can't add any insight there. She's redundant and that's a big part of the problem.

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I'll say this for Renee on commentary, she can often shut down and clown on Graves when he is doing his best attitude era Lawler impressions. I wish she would do it more, but still.

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I hate Corey Graves and would get rid of him too. He is overbearing and obnoxious and at his worst during women's matches.

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I really like Renee as a host of like DVDs and little documentaries and things on the Network. Or when she did Talking Smack. They should do another show similar to Talking Smack and have her host that.

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30 minutes ago, Mad Dog said:

I honestly don't know why she isn't modern day Mean Gene.

She was fantastic at that role when they had her doing it. They've hired multiple women, including Charly since then, just to replace the role that Rene did.

Honest question: did they put her on commentary just because she's a woman & they're doing the Women's Evolution thing? Because it seems silly to me to replace someone from a role that they're doing a really good job in.

Edited by Coffey
Clarity. One of my sentences was worded really poorly.

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Cole seems to like her and she was probably the best option after they realized Coach has no redeeming qualities in the booth.

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