Loss Posted February 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 To that degree, yes. But I think there is a sense of entitlement at the F4W Board, for example, where many of the posters act like jackasses because they've paid and think they deserve to act like jackasses. So the end result is lots of Dave trolling instead of Dave conversation and engagement. I don't know how active Wade is on his board, but it sounds like some of the same stuff may play out there too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stanley Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 They brought back the comments option on the Torch site? My God, 5-6 years ago that was the most vile slum in the online wrestling universe. They brought back the comments option on the Torch site? My God, 5-6 years ago that was the most vile slum in the online wrestling universe.[/ quote] Oh its alive and well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death From Above Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 I think paid message boards operate under a faulty premise, because how do you moderate or ban someone who's paying for the service? There's precedent for paid message boards sort of not living up to their potential, even when they have some of the most knowledgeable people around participating. Â Not to get too off-topic but this is actually a huge problem on several MMO video games that I've attempted to get into. Specifically you can really see it on the games that have both pay and non-pay options for those games. The fourms are almost always ridiculously bad because you've got paying customers on them, and they simply can't/won't ban anybody who is paying them money out of the fear it will cost them business. It's almost inevitable that the absolute worst people on those forums are not only paying customers, but some of the high end ones. You're more likely to have a logical, sane discussion by taking one or two steps sideways from the "official" boards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stanley Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 From Wade Keller's Wiki page:In 2004, he wrestled Dave Meltzer in a Table match. He defeated him in 14 minutes when he powerbombed him on a flaming table. Meltzer then cried and admitted Keller was better than him. He also likes the daily show and free range chickens. Â From Wade Keller's Wiki page: Â In 2004, he wrestled Dave Meltzer in a Table match. He defeated him in 14 minutes when he powerbombed him on a flaming table. Meltzer then cried and admitted Keller was better than him.He also likes the daily show and free range chickens. Â From Wade Keller's Wiki page:: In 2004, he wrestled Dave Meltzer in a Table match. He defeated him in 14 minutes when. he powerbombed him on a flaming table. Meltzer then cried and admitted Keller was better than him.He also likes the daily show and free range chickens. [/ quote]Â This is funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stanley Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Oh Dave scherer. I remember him. Is he still around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted February 22, 2014 Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 To that degree, yes. But I think there is a sense of entitlement at the F4W Board, for example, where many of the posters act like jackasses because they've paid and think they deserve to act like jackasses. So the end result is lots of Dave trolling instead of Dave conversation and engagement. I don't know how active Wade is on his board, but it sounds like some of the same stuff may play out there too. Â The F4W Board and the Torch board were like night and day from my limited experiences, because Wade always had a strict policy of moderation in place unlike F4W. It's one of the things Wade clearly did much better than Dave, cultivating a community on his board and engaging with them in a cordial, friendly manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Enthusiast Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 Â To that degree, yes. But I think there is a sense of entitlement at the F4W Board, for example, where many of the posters act like jackasses because they've paid and think they deserve to act like jackasses. So the end result is lots of Dave trolling instead of Dave conversation and engagement. I don't know how active Wade is on his board, but it sounds like some of the same stuff may play out there too. Â The F4W Board and the Torch board were like night and day from my limited experiences, because Wade always had a strict policy of moderation in place unlike F4W. It's one of the things Wade clearly did much better than Dave, cultivating a community on his board and engaging with them in a cordial, friendly manner. Â I'll take the F4W board any day. Back when I had a Torch sub, their board was a ghost town and I assume it's worsened since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 The F4W board is usually not too bad, since the overt trolls tend to stay to the main wrestling folder. I did chuckle when the new TOS rolled out and apparently Bryan just recently realized there was a whole forum of hardcore porn on his board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 http://www.citypages.com/2014-04-02/news/wade-keller-the-man-holding-up-the-pro-wrestling-torch/full Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazer Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 http://www.citypages.com/2014-04-02/news/wade-keller-the-man-holding-up-the-pro-wrestling-torch/full  Fantastic.  I had no idea Wade is only a year older than me. I caught him on Mike Tenay's Saturday Night radio show in early 1993 and ordered a subscription from the Torch around King of the Ring '93. I kept that subscription until late '97. I was 22, Wade was 23 at the time. Funny that Wade's mom was probably the one putting the mailing labels on the Torches and stapling them before they arrived at my house. Great piece. Really enjoyed the history of the Torch. I talked with Wade quite a bit in '95 when the internet was starting to take off, back when Scherer was trying to get into the business and Meltzer was strong. Those were fun times.  BTW- I had no idea that Wade had a partner. It doesn't matter, but I just found that interesting. Good for him for adopting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 Wade and Cory have been together since 2000. Bowie isn't adopted: he's their son through a surrogate. Â http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/4999-the-wade-keller-appreciation-thread/?p=5438416 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 It is amazing to look back and see that was five years ago. I think of Wade & Cory & Bowie, and more recently Charles & Doug & William... Good lord has the world changed in those five years in ways that move me a great deal when I think about it. Pretty awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 It's also nice to see Sean Waltman stick up for Wade, just a few months after Hunter threw him under a bus to Grantland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 It is amazing to look back and see that was five years ago. I think of Wade & Cory & Bowie, and more recently Charles & Doug & William... Good lord has the world changed in those five years in ways that move me a great deal when I think about it. Pretty awesome. Â For sure and whatever drop off there might have been subscriber wise (fuck those guys if that was the case) were most likely replaced and more by the sign ups Wade has gotten via the free BlogTalkRadio show/shop window he has. Never saw much blow back to announcement bar some people trying too hard on the F4W board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted April 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 Wait, has someone implied that Wade saw a drop off in subscriptions as a result of coming out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 Wait, has someone implied that Wade saw a drop off in subscriptions as a result of coming out? Â It was feared at least at the time. I don't think I saw any overt mention of it happening or someone doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 Yeah, I never heard there was any impact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petey Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 Interesting article. Thanks for posting it. Always fascinated to see the origins of the newsletter/dirtsheet stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 Good read, but quotes like this   "Wrestling is not my escape, and it can't be," Keller says. "Because when I watch it, I'm thinking about things that produce a good portion of stress in my life, which is my job and running a business and deadlines, so I can't watch wrestling and not be thinking about work."  At the same time, Keller's challenge is to make sure his subscribers, many of whom do view wrestling as an escape, remain entertained.  "The way I approach it is I watch it as a journalist, but I report on it with a tone for people where it is their escape [and they] can enjoy it and not feel stupid for liking it," he says.  Is exactly why I can't stand Keller. He comes across utterly joyless about modern wrestling on his audio shows. It's very much the "this isn't fun for me, it's my job" vibe. And I don't see any great probing or insightful journalism, so it ends up being misery and negativity, which is no fun to listen to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 Good read, but quotes like this   "Wrestling is not my escape, and it can't be," Keller says. "Because when I watch it, I'm thinking about things that produce a good portion of stress in my life, which is my job and running a business and deadlines, so I can't watch wrestling and not be thinking about work."  At the same time, Keller's challenge is to make sure his subscribers, many of whom do view wrestling as an escape, remain entertained.  "The way I approach it is I watch it as a journalist, but I report on it with a tone for people where it is their escape [and they] can enjoy it and not feel stupid for liking it," he says.  Is exactly why I can't stand Keller. He comes across utterly joyless about modern wrestling on his audio shows. It's very much the "this isn't fun for me, it's my job" vibe. And I don't see any great probing or insightful journalism, so it ends up being misery and negativity, which is no fun to listen to.  I've never been motivated to watch or rewatch a match based off Wade's audio or writings. Meltzer on the other hand lots and lots. Wade specialises in promo analysis more than match analysis if anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted April 3, 2014 Report Share Posted April 3, 2014 Wait, has someone implied that Wade saw a drop off in subscriptions as a result of coming out? Â Was this ever actually a concern?! Â How many people really know that he's "out"? The people who do likely don't care (I hope). Plus, I'd suspect the people who pay a monthly fee to access newsletters and the like are a little bit smarter and more "worldly" than your "average wrestling fan." Â But let's say, for the sake of argument, that many of Wade's subscribers are indeed homophobic bigots. Are they really going to cancel something they enjoy because the nameless, faceless editor of the newsletter they love is gay. They don't know him personally and have no reason to care. I'm sure there are racist sports fans who enjoy African-American athletes, for example. Â Regardless, Wade hasn't been shy about expressing his disdain for wrestling's anti-gay culture (Cena's promos, etc.). Even if his readers don't know he's gay, they still know he's passionate about the subject. Â BTW, I like Wade Keller's style. He's not Meltzer, but he doesn't need to be. IMO, they are both equally great - just at completely different things. Wade's strengths are his incredible Torch Talk interviews (Meltzer has nothing like this) and his ability to go outside the box in his analysis and view things from a perspective that others might not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted April 4, 2014 Report Share Posted April 4, 2014  Wait, has someone implied that Wade saw a drop off in subscriptions as a result of coming out?  Was this ever actually a concern?!  Rovert kind of explained it above - he recalls seeing some talk/concern about it at the time. Rovert tends to have a good memory on things like that, so I believe his memory on it.  My comment after it was simply that it doesn't appear to have had any impact, and I have heard that it has.   BTW, I like Wade Keller's style. He's not Meltzer, but he doesn't need to be. IMO, they are both equally great - just at completely different things. Wade's strengths are his incredible Torch Talk interviews (Meltzer has nothing like this) and his ability to go outside the box in his analysis and view things from a perspective that others might not.  I think one of Wade's other long term strengths has been getting other voices into the Torch. It's not a catch-22 because people don't need the sheets to get their voice out there... I mean you can look at this site, though admittedly it's small. There have been loads of forums and sites and groups like this over the past two decades, so that diminishes it to a degree.  But...  Wade got Bruce's voice into the Torch. He got Madden's, which even if you think Mark is an asshat like I do, it was another voice for fans to read back in the early 90s. He got Zavisa to talk about Japan... Bowden before that... me as well. Guys like Kunkel. Guys now like Pat. They're all voices different from Wade's.  Dave wasn't against other's views being in the WON. He had a number of people do things in the early WON's, and of course Bowden the Booker for more than a year. The Letters Page was a core feature for more than a decade, and with various "regulars" coming and going from it. But that is a bit different than having several regular writers riffing on topics.  Wade had a pretty decent skill in being able to identify folks who could write a bit. A few in the 90s perhaps didn't have legs beyond their first few pieces. On the flip, some like Bruce and Mark could write and hit their point, and do it for quite a while. Some of us either burned out, or in my case got distracted easily by the net not long after starting to write for the Torch: it was easy to "talk" or "shot the shit" or post a massive response to something... or just have a good old flame war argument with an asshole like Mr. Schemer. Feedback and response were instant, as where finding people interested in what you liked and talked about. So...  The net has changed it.  I read stuff that Chris Harrington does and it strikes me as something that Wade would have loved to have Chris write as a regular column in the Torch since it's something above and beyond what Wade does, and from a different direction. Hell... I suspect that it would still be something that Wade would love to have if Chris didn't have an existing home base, or was looking for somewhere to move. But the point is: Chris has ways to get his voice out. That goofy Masked Man does. Jerry Von Kramer does. Etc.  Anyway... it was, and probably still is one of his strengths. The online wrestling world is so diverse and spread out, and everyone wants to do their own thing, that it's less of a thing to get across now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jm29195 Posted April 5, 2014 Report Share Posted April 5, 2014 Does he still have Kylan from Norton, New Jersey as the first caller on nearly every phone in show? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Eduardo James Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Was gonna post this in the TNA topic, but figured poor Wade hasn't had much appreciation lately: Â Â On a side note, imagine if instead of setting an Observer on fire in 1995 Hogan merely argued with Dave over Twitter? Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomethingSavage Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Kylan is a constant. Â As sure as the sun will rise... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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