El-P Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 13 minutes ago, sek69 said: Cosplay would mean the wrestlers are dressing up, not the set. Is AEW cosplaying WWE because they have a ramp and a Titan Tron? None of the wrestlers were any different than they would be on any other show they'd appear on. No one was dressed up as the Road Warriors or the Midnight Express, there weren't masked jobbers, no managers with tennis rackets. Being all "lol cosplay" because a studio wrestling show has a set like a studio wrestling show seems like people reaching for criticism because they want to dunk on Cornette for saying stupid things. The ENTIRE set up is cosplaying the 80's presentation of NWA studio wrestling. The logos, the furniture, the credit (Dokken, for fuck's sake), the fonts. Plus, it's not old-school at all. It's retro, which is very different. Studio wrestling was an advertisement for house shows. This is a show cosplaying the whole presentation of studio wrestling of the 80's but in essence is just a contemporary show in that it's shown on Youtube for its own value : it has nothing to sell apart from it own self, which is not old-school at all. The aesthetic presentation is a total cosplay. Nick Aldis is totally cosplaying Ric Flair, in that he's replicating the form but in reality doesn't tour territories and pack houses defending a prestigious title. In a way, it's the most pretend pro-wrestling show of all, even faker than the stupidest Joey Ryan dick spot, because it is aesthetically trying to reach to a form that's dead for pure retromaniac pleasure. Lucha Underground was pretty much studio wrestling in its most contemporary, even futuristic form. This is retromania. Why not. It's very well done. I personally don't care for it because I don't care one bit for nostalgia and can't stand people blabbing about them good ol' days in general (in pro-wrestling or otherwise). But yeah, Corny is the one talking about "cosplayers" (and you know he's talking about those guys he hates who are all packing houses and doing ratings on TNT), which is the ultimate irony considering the entire show looks like a Truman Show of sorts where he's locked into his little world, protected from the Joey Ryan's, the Young Buck's and the Kenny Omega's of the world. So, nothing against the show itself, as I said I find it half-cool (as a one shot special from a regular promotion it would be an awesome idea) half-sad (because I find nostalgia to be a sad thing). But Corny saying stupid shit is triggering a fact check and a big laugh at his face when he drops the "cosplay" argument while sitting on a desk that looks like something straight out of some TBS broadcast in the mid-80's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 If they had done the exact same show in the same studio with a more modern set, people would be saying how stupid it is to do studio wrestling in Atlanta with modern trappings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Dragon Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 I think even looking past the “cosplay” elements (which I find groan worthy as a description, but whatever), it’s hard not to call there first episode a gigantic success. It’s going to break 150 thousand views on YouTube in less then a day. If it had gotten a third of that I’d have called it a solid opening. Not only that it’s getting tons more press then anyone expected, with even the Rock talking about it on twitter, were it was the No.1 trend in the US for a while yesterday. From what was any reasonable expectation for this, it surpassed them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMKK Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 14 minutes ago, sek69 said: If they had done the exact same show in the same studio with a more modern set, people would be saying how stupid it is to do studio wrestling in Atlanta with modern trappings. No one even said it was stupid to do what they did. I enjoyed the show. It's just stupid to complain about other people doing cosplay when you're doing cosplay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 1 minute ago, FMKK said: No one even said it was stupid to do what they did. I enjoyed the show. It's just stupid to complain about other people doing cosplay when you're doing cosplay. This and this. Even I who *did not* enjoy the show very much, said that for what they are trying to do, it was excellently done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clintthecrippler Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 I loved the overall flow, format, and energy of the show. And there is nothing wrong with aiming for "retro", but that interview set straight up looked like it was from an SNL parody of a 70s game show to the point that I kept waiting for Bill Hader to walk in as the game show host. And while it was very nice to not hear "this is awesome" chants for an entire hour of televised wrestling, I couldn't help but also get the feeling a lot of the crowd reactions was coached by a floor director encouraging them to boo the heels and cheer the faces. I hope I am 100% wrong on that, but I got a "WCW Worldwide at Disney/MGM" vibe from the crowd responses after a while. It was still a very fun watch. And I am all in on checking this out every week, especially so if they ever start steering Eddie Kingston towards an NWA World Title shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 13 minutes ago, clintthecrippler said: And while it was very nice to not hear "this is awesome" chants for an entire hour of televised wrestling, I couldn't help but also get the feeling a lot of the crowd reactions was coached by a floor director encouraging them to boo the heels and cheer the faces. I hope I am 100% wrong on that, but I got a "WCW Worldwide at Disney/MGM" vibe from the crowd responses after a while. Got the exact same feeling. Also, considering the amount of discussion it is getting and the fact a lot of posters seem to really enjoy the show, it should probably get its own thread. Can a mod move the entire stuff from the first post to its own thread ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 I generally liked Power but I hated how they taped the fucking matches. Way too low and it felt like the ropes obscured everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeg Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 I enjoyed Power. There wasn't anything on the show that was special or exciting but there wasn't anything on there that would make me embarrassed to say i watched wrestling. Every match was ok to good, most of the promos were good and there wasn't any hokey, corny, bullshit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDuke Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 1 hour ago, clintthecrippler said: And there is nothing wrong with aiming for "retro", but that interview set straight up looked like it was from an SNL parody of a 70s game show to the point that I kept waiting for Bill Hader to walk in as the game show host. This is a good point. I haven't seen a lot of old studio wrestling, but I have seen a lot of 70's Match Game reruns on Game Show Network, and that is what this immediately feels like to me. I feel a bit like the boy from emperor's new clothes here, but this show is bizarre. Like I keep waiting for the big reveal that this is all supposed to be a joke, like Southpaw Wrestling or something. It feels like I woke up from a bizarre dream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alucard Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 Loved it. Storm/Aldis was an awesome old school main event. Lots of familiar faces up and down the card throughout. Really cool and enjoyable hour of pro wrestling, looking forward to more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 I agree that this NWA talk should be spun off into it's own thread. Based on the reaction here at PWO and elsewhere online, this show might end up being more worthy of discussion than I would have guessed. Like @El Dragon pointed out, even The Rock watched it...and I would have assumed he'd have been busy doing something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 3 hours ago, sek69 said: Cosplay would mean the wrestlers are dressing up, not the set. Is AEW cosplaying WWE because they have a ramp and a Titan Tron? None of the wrestlers were any different than they would be on any other show they'd appear on. No one was dressed up as the Road Warriors or the Midnight Express, there weren't masked jobbers, no managers with tennis rackets. Being all "lol cosplay" because a studio wrestling show has a set like a studio wrestling show seems like people reaching for criticism because they want to dunk on Cornette for saying stupid things. I agree. Anybody who has listened to a Jim Cornette podcast knows exactly what he means by "cosplay" wrestlers. It refers to people trying to be something that he thinks they are not. In his mind, all wrestlers should look like professional athletes - they need to be tanned, muscular and over 6 feet tall, or if not they need to look like a monster or an ass-kicker. This cannot possibly be a surprise, since one of his early mentors was Bill Watts. To his mind guys like Orange Cassidy, Marko Stunt, Darby Allin, and Joey Janella don't physically look like his definition of what a Professional Wrestler should be therefore they're "cosplayers." He also applies that label to Death Match guys who don't actually know how to wrestle, and finally to guys who have done something blatantly unrealistic like suplexing somebody with their penis or taking a bump for an invisible man. He always calls that "play wrestling." If you don't look like what he thinks a wrestler should look like, if you don't know how to wrestle or if you participate in obviously fake or theatrical spots, you're a "cosplayer." On the show last night he made an offhand comment about there not being any "cosplay" wrestlers in the NWA and that is clearly what he was referring to. I am not saying I agree with him, but that is obviously what he meant. Some people are trying to say the show last night was "cosplay" because it was deliberately designed to look like the TV studio set from Georgia Championship Wrestling in the 70's or JCP in the 80's. That's exactly what Billy Corgan was going for. He wanted to recreate the type of Pro Wrestling he loved as a kid, and bring it back. He thinks there is a market for that, for people who miss that kind of stuff and might be alienated by the "modern" product. It certainly appeals to me, and judging by the overwhelmingly positive reaction so far online, it appealed to other people as well. Maybe there is a market for nostalgia. I would never go to one of Joey Ryan's Bar Wrestling shows and then act shocked and appalled when he did his dick spot. It would be my own damn fault for going to one of his shows and expecting anything different. I know I'm not going to like that stuff, so I don't watch it. This was a Pro Wrestling show under the banner of the "NWA" and filmed in a TV studio with Jim Cornette doing commentary, which was promoted as a return to traditional studio wrestling. If you watch that and then act shocked or outraged at what you see, I have to wonder...what the fuck were you expecting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMKK Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 No one is shocked or outraged though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 Yeah, but it's good to polarize everything and ignore pretty much the points people are making. At this point I'm just repeating myself : although I don't care for that stuff, I thought they deserves a A+ for their presentation. I just pointed out how silly Corny's comments came off. Maybe Corny himself doesn't understand the sens of cosplaying though. Well, he probably doesn't, actually, so there... As far as nostalgia goes, it is proven it works on short burst for WWE. An entire company built on cosplaying (sorry, but there's no other word, SMW was much more "contemporary" in the 90's than this) 70's/80's NWA presentation, it's anyone's guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 41 minutes ago, The Thread Killer said: On the show last night he made an offhand comment about there not being any "cosplay" wrestlers in the NWA and that is clearly what he was referring to. While Eli Drake, THE Austin/Rock cosplayer of all cosplayers, was in the ring. Which is another reason why it cracked me up. But anyway, since the Callihan debacle, Corny has lost a whole lot of credit with me (and that's a big, long time fan speaking), so I just laugh at the stuff he says now. He's still great on announcing, so there's that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 3 hours ago, The Thread Killer said: In his mind, all wrestlers should look like professional athletes - they need to be tanned, muscular and over 6 feet tall, or if not they need to look like a monster or an ass-kicker. Oh, come on. Cornette drew boatloads of money working against Ricky Morton, who checks exactly zero of those boxes. He may think that Stunt is too small to be physically threatening, but that doesn't mean he's Vince McMahon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 3 hours ago, NintendoLogic said: Oh, come on. Cornette drew boatloads of money working against Ricky Morton, who checks exactly zero of those boxes. He may think that Stunt is too small to be physically threatening, but that doesn't mean he's Vince McMahon. I'm not arguing that, but it's a fact that Cornette has complained a million times about various different guys being too small, "not looking like professional athletes" or not looking like Pro Wrestlers. Keep in mind this is the same guy who thinks Bobby Roode and Randy Orton are two of the top talents in WWE because they "look like stars." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotJayTabb Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 It's the same reason he calls Janela "Jelly Janela", because he's got a soft body and looks terrible in his opinion. I thought Power was a really fun hour of wrestling. Couple of decent squashes, great Kingston promo, really good main event between Aldis and Tim Storm (and I thought Cornette did a good job explaining how 54yr old teacher Storm was a credible wrestler, all power but with less finesse than Aldis). I'd rather Bram wasnt involved, but it made me excited to watch it next week. The roster looks good too - Kingston, Aldis, Thunder Rosa, Ricky Stark, Ashley Vox - so this will probably replace MLW in my "got an hour to kill" wrestling slot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 1 hour ago, NotJayTabb said: It's the same reason he calls Janela "Jelly Janela", because he's got a soft body and looks terrible in his opinion. Yeah, which is incredibly hypocritical coming from the guy who managed Bobby Eaton and worked with Ricky Morton & Robert Gibson for the entire peak of his career. Cornette also thought Matt Morgan should be pushed as a star because he was tall and had a good body... For all the great knowledge Corny has about pro-wrestling, his views have been incredibly dated and out of touch forever by now because he's also got a terrible biased view of everything. The fact he still refers to Kenny Omega as "the geek for worked with a 9 year old girl" and not the guy who was an active part of NJPW getting really hot in the last few years and sold out the Tokyo Dome is embarrassing coming from an historian like himself. He's still an asset as an announcer (he's easily one of the best to this day) or a performer (could still out-promo 99% of the guys today) and probably a detail guy backstage, as he was in TNA in the mid 00's. It's too bad he's as biased as he is, because he could actually be awesome in AEW. It's interesting to see old-school guys like Schiavone have a much more open mind (and I don't mean just because he works with AEW, the fact he had so much fun during those ECW watch-alongs before he ever got back into the field is telling). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 I'm not 100% sure this is true, (because I saw it on Twitter) but apparently in the first 24 hours since it debuted on YouTube, the debut episode of NWA Power has more views than any episode of MLW Fusion ever has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 It had about 122k when I watched yesterday. They have gotten a huge boost from AEW Dark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Dragon Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 24 minutes ago, Mad Dog said: It had about 122k when I watched yesterday. They have gotten a huge boost from AEW Dark. It’s literally doubled since then. Sitting at 251k now. Once more, gigantic number overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migs Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 1 hour ago, El Dragon said: It’s literally doubled since then. Sitting at 251k now. Once more, gigantic number overall. The highest number MLW has for an episode, this minute, is 235K for the first Battle Riot (this year's Battle Riot is actually number 2, 176k). I'm not sure what a decent assumption in terms of viewers on BeIn would be (and for a while, the episodes were getting posted on both MLW and BeIn's Youtube channels), but it's fair to say the NWA has put itself at or above the level of MLW (and Impact) from an interest perspective. If they keep this pace at all, I think they definitely can get a TV deal in the not too distant future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted October 10, 2019 Report Share Posted October 10, 2019 Interesting note is that they got about 22% of their audience directly off of people watching Dark. So I think they were lucky that they could piggyback on that. I'm sure they got a huge boost from The Rock shouting them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.