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Coffey

NWA Powerrr

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The first show of everything always does better. Let's see where they are in 6 months. First Season of Lucha Underground was hyped as fuck. By S3, no one but me was watching, it seems.

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50 minutes ago, Migs said:

The highest number MLW has for an episode, this minute, is 235K for the first Battle Riot (this year's Battle Riot is actually number 2, 176k). I'm not sure what a decent assumption in terms of viewers on BeIn would be (and for a while, the episodes were getting posted on both MLW and BeIn's Youtube channels), but it's fair to say the NWA has put itself at or above the level of MLW (and Impact) from an interest perspective. 

Except Youtube numbers really don't mean that much. MLW are actually selling tickets to actual events and apparently are doing pretty well. They also are on TV. So yeah, this first show did extraordinary well, all things considered. But it's way too soon to draw any conclusions.

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I watched the show, genuinely enjoyed it and the look and feel didn't bother me in the slightest. It hit all the cliches but there was some good promo work, some neat video packages and Cornette's best commentary in about 25 years. I do hope that, as the show rolls on, it feels slightly less over-produced though and dishes out the chaos and fireball angles. What it needs is the 2019 version of Tracy Smothers coming in and causing havoc. Hell, maybe that's just Tracy Smothers.

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On 10/8/2019 at 4:09 PM, Coffey said:

NWA Power is tonight. I'm excited for it & will be watching it when it premiers but I don't think it's worthy of its own thread. Just don't think there would be enough replies/interest.

I am happy to have been wrong. 

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12 hours ago, El-P said:

Yeah, which is incredibly hypocritical coming from the guy who managed Bobby Eaton and worked with Ricky Morton & Robert Gibson for the entire peak of his career. Cornette also thought Matt Morgan should be pushed as a star because he was tall and had a good body... For all the great knowledge Corny has about pro-wrestling, his views have been incredibly dated and out of touch forever by now because he's also got a terrible biased view of everything. The fact he still refers to Kenny Omega as "the geek for worked with a 9 year old girl" and not the guy who was an active part of NJPW getting really hot in the last few years and sold out the Tokyo Dome is embarrassing coming from an historian like himself. He's still an asset as an announcer (he's easily one of the best to this day) or a performer (could still out-promo 99% of the guys today) and probably a detail guy backstage, as he was in TNA in the mid 00's. It's too bad he's as biased as he is, because he could actually be awesome in AEW.

It's interesting to see old-school guys like Schiavone have a much more open mind (and I don't mean just because he works with AEW, the fact he had so much fun during those ECW watch-alongs before he ever got back into the field is telling).

People need to stop saying Omega sold out the Tokyo Dome. Its something that is so easily disproven.  In its smallest configuration, the Tokyo Dome holds 55,000. 26,000 is not a sell out. 43,000 with 34,000 paid is not a sell out. 38,500 is not a sell out. Its better than the 18,000 to 23,000 paid they had been doing previous to Okada coming on the scene, but its still less than the 50,000 plus they were doing twice a year in the late 90s/early 2000s or the 65,000 that Noah did twice. 

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7 minutes ago, joeg said:

People need to stop saying Omega sold out the Tokyo Dome. Its something that is so easily disproven.  In its smallest configuration, the Tokyo Dome holds 55,000. 26,000 is not a sell out. 43,000 with 34,000 paid is not a sell out. 38,500 is not a sell out. Its better than the 18,000 to 23,000 paid they had been doing previous to Okada coming on the scene, but its still less than the 50,000 plus they were doing twice a year in the late 90s/early 2000s or the 65,000 that Noah did twice. 

Point taken. Let's say that he working with Okada drew more in the Tokyo Dome than it's been the case in eons, which is an accomplishment in itself.

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He still was a main part of them getting the biggest crowds they've had in 20 years, so continuously painting him as just the guy who worked with a 9 year old is disingenuous. 

As such, Cornette is much better suited in roles like this that play to his strengths, rather than throwing out hot takes on a podcast in an attempt to try to work programs with the guys he trashes.

 

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See I'm not 100% sure I even agree with that. I mean hypothetically was he a better draw than Devitt or Styles? Was he a better draw than Jay White is now? Or was he just the only serviceable gaijin left when Okada and Naito got red hot? New Japan's attendance numbers didn't drop when he left, they stayed the same or increased.  I'd argue that he was a draw on the US tours and ROH shows which drew a 3,000 to 6,000 but in Japan he was comparable to other guys who had that top gaijin spot in the past 8 years or so. I'd argue the attendance increases in recent years has to do more with Okada and Naito being promoted better and thus more over than Tanahashi and Nakamura were. 

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I really enjoyed the first episode of Power. I'm all for different types of presentations when it comes to wrestling and the NWA has found it's niche by hitting the nostalgia hard. Cosplay or not I'd say ride it til the wheels fall off.

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Been getting around to this, haven't watched the main yet but I'm liking the aesthetic and the format quite a bit. But was anyone else turned off by the James Storm/Jocephus bit? Jocephus ended up looking like an absolute joke, I can't imagine how they could ever present him in a remotely threatening way again. The weird baby thumb sucking thing was particularly cringey to me, and all for the sake of getting over a pretty past his prime James Storm. I know he can still bark his promos with energy but I can't say I'm too excited to see more of him as a wrestler. Maybe it's just me?

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Speaking as someone who didn't grow up watching studio wrestling and has no nostalgic attachment to it, I really enjoyed the first episode. The show never dragged and nothing insulted my intelligence, which are the main things I seek from a wrestling show. The presentation was definitely retro, but there were enough modern elements so that it wasn't just a time warp. With that said, I don't want to use the C-word, but Nick Aldis as NWA champion comes across to me as an actor playing a role written for someone else. There's a fine line between nostalgia and anachronism, and a cocky champion who spends the match stooging and showing ass before escaping by the skin of his teeth feels like a relic of a bygone era.

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Nick Aldis is absolutely cosplaying (does an awesome job at it). The rest of the cast, not so much (well, except Eli Drake, but in another way). I would watch a Nick Aldis vs Eddie Kingston feud, if only because the promos would be terrific. I'm not such a fan of Aldis once the bell rings though, he reminds me of Jeff Jarrett in WCW in 99/00 (minus the Russoiffic booking of course) : dated style, unexciting, feels way forced for a main event worker. The best match I've ever seen from him was against Cody at All In and it was because of the tons of smokes and mirrors (which kinda fits the Jarrett 99/00 analogy).

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38 minutes ago, NintendoLogic said:

Speaking as someone who didn't grow up watching studio wrestling and has no nostalgic attachment to it, I really enjoyed the first episode.

This seems like the general take even among younger fans. I think more then anything it might say something about how wrestling promotions have been trying to reinvent the wheel for a while when something simple and to the point can still work just fine. Get guys who can cut some solid promos, put high priority on the titles, build from there. 
 

I think nostalgia at least partially got people to look into this, but using the structure of show I don’t think ever stopped being effective. If it did, not having been done in so long has turned it into a new way to present wrestling that gives people reason to care about the characters.

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21 hours ago, Mrzfn said:

Been getting around to this, haven't watched the main yet but I'm liking the aesthetic and the format quite a bit. But was anyone else turned off by the James Storm/Jocephus bit? Jocephus ended up looking like an absolute joke, I can't imagine how they could ever present him in a remotely threatening way again. The weird baby thumb sucking thing was particularly cringey to me, and all for the sake of getting over a pretty past his prime James Storm. I know he can still bark his promos with energy but I can't say I'm too excited to see more of him as a wrestler. Maybe it's just me?

I thought this was absolutely terrible and the lowlight of the show. It didn't ruin the show for me but I hope they never do shit like this again.

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The overall reception for the first episode of Power and the first two episodes of Dynamite has been overwhelmingly enthusiastically positive. Combine that with Impact and Lucha Underground sinking into irrelevance and it seems clear that even among modern fans, the audience for straightforward traditional pro wrestling is far larger than the one for postmodern supernatural comic book wrestling.

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Give me Catrina, evil immortal witch, and Allie getting her throat cut in the Undead Realm over Nick Aldis cosplaying Ric Flair while Corny is drolling anyday.

Also, the first season of Lucha Underground had tons of hype. IMPACT is just a sad story, they've been better than WWE consistently over the last 19 months *at least* and a super easy pro-wrestling show to watch with terrific PPV's. Dixie Carter's stupidity fucked it all up in the past and they are stained for life.

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4 hours ago, Mad Dog said:

I thought this was absolutely terrible and the lowlight of the show. It didn't ruin the show for me but I hope they never do shit like this again.

I was talking with my friend John after the show about how this was the only part of the show I didn't like. It felt too cartoony & Looney Tunes like to me. It was just silly. Two grown men running around the studio in slow motion. Just didn't come off looking well. The actual squash match part, the Last Call Superkick & pin was fine. Just everything before it was too much. 

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Man, I loved the shit out of this - and it's not even nostalgia talking, as I didn't start watching wrestling until 1991.

It was a fun, fast-paced hour of wrestling that got over the wrestlers, storylines, feuds, and - most importantly - the ten pounds of gold.

What's not to like? 

The cosplay comments are weird to me, as the whole "what's old is new" vibe is exactly what this show needs to be doing and exactly what makes it unique in 2019.

As for Cornette, as much as I think he's an embarrassment to the industry, he has always been a great character and did great character work here as a commentator. If anything, the other commentator felt really overshadowed, but I think he'll find his voice as the weeks go on and they gel more cohesively. 

The only thing I'm curious about is Josephus. I realize he had his head shaved in an angle a while back, but his current look - like the dude from The Hangover - isn't doing him any favors, and it felt like James Storm was burying him in a promo. Losing so quickly didn't help either. It doesn't make any sense that they'd intentionally bury Josephus though, since he's been one of the pillars of the promotion since Corgan and Lagana took over, so I am wondering what story they're trying to tell here.

On that note, I am curious to see how Tim Storm bounces back from never being able to get another shot at the Worlds Heavyweight Title again? Heel turn? His low blow seemed desperate and out of character.

The valet with Aldis seemed to lack personality, but maybe that's part of the story too, since she's being presented as a shrinking violet in an abusive relationship who is too afraid to speak up for herself. I assume that's intentional too. Not sure why Aldis went from having Austin Idol as his manager to this no-name sidepiece though. 

Were there any MOTYs in this hour? No. But Storm and Aldis told a good story.  

Overall,  this was wonderful premiere episode and it's something I'll faithfully tune into each week.

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Yeah, this show was so much fun. They nailed the perfect balance between nostalgia and modern. Main was really good. Between this and Dynamite what great additions to the wrestling landscape, and damn it's really great to be a fan in 2019 

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On 10/8/2019 at 6:25 PM, El-P said:

Yep. Total cosplay show. 

I had the same thoughts you did. I am glad you were able to get in your opinion quickly here before it became a 99% positive circlejerk like on every other podcast and forums I have seen about NWA Powerrr. Seriously, no one dares nitpick Powerrr, but they start a federal case on AEW about the slightest undercard "transgression".

Just wanted to let you know I appreciate your observations about NWA + Cornette + nostalgia in general.

If I want to watch a 1983 studio show, I will watch the JCP archives. If I want to watch a "what if Nitro  was never cancelled" show I watch AEW Dynamite (because unlike NWA, it actually progressed the timeline.)

Nostalgic hipsters rarely see the warts or reasons why society had moved on. In this case it is the reason why wrestling moved on from studio shows. When WWF changed their TV format from small studios to better arenas and camera work in 1986, it was such a HUGE difference that helped solidify them as a national powerhouse. They looked big time and everyone else looked small time. WWF(E) kept getting better with its TV production until it capped and hardly changed in the 2000s (although thankfully FOX has brought up Smackdown to 2019 standards).

IMHO when WWF was desperate and started RAW at the Manhattan Center that was what a 1990s studio show should have looked like. Vince was scared to do it, but It was part of the zeitgeist. I thought Wrestling Society X was fine too. Powerrr is a fantasy-land retromania playground.

As it stands now, Powerrr has a bunch of non-stars pretending to exist in a 1980s set. Even Tim Storm, whom I had never heard of, had the NWA Johnny Weaver 1980s gimmick of being a "legend" from back in the day, whom we are supposed to respect. Okay, it's a good niche and had universal praise by the paid experts. It's already better than MLW. Fine. 

Again, you were right on the money deconstructing Cornette. Now, let me just submit a theory which may explain his hypocrisy. The Young Bucks said Jim once approached them and laughed about how the marks buy each other's t-shirts because of all the heat Jim generates, and how they do it better than WWE. The implication was it's all a work. Maybe he even wants to put his targets over so they all make money. His angle in MLW with Callahan showed he was willing to work with someone he allegedly looked down upon. Heck, he made amends with Eric Bischoff to work WWE's Table for 3.  I had never heard of some people before Jim's List- like Butterface or even Joey Ryan, so ironically he is their best PR machine.

I was always a huge fan, but have taken a break since he went after Riho, of all people. My friends in the Philippines met her when she was passing through and said she really is a nice, humble person. What you see on TV is how she is. Does not deserve the race, gender, and size discrimination from him. Omega doesn't deserve his wrath either. Even see Kenny at a signing? The guy acts like the nicest guy on earth.

At the very least- if it is not a work- he is preaching to his choir- fostering his disgruntled base to follow him, keep him relevant by talking about him wherever he goes, and buy his merch.

Bottom line is he's carny and intellectually dishonest. I understand people need brands and followers. But his "logic" is gatekeeping, cultish, and deceitful especially due to his outlines "philosophy". Dave exposed it to him but Jim denied it, but we have evidence that old timers didn't think Race, Flair, and Funk were "realistic workers". Once you accept that, nothing Jim says makes sense about modern wrestling.

The irony is that part of his alleged philosophies are in line with his boogeymen, Vince Russo and Eric Bischoff: only book people who look like TV superstars and controversy creates cash.

 

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Thanks ! I feel less lonely on this one. ;)

1 hour ago, War is Raw said:

Seriously, no one dares nitpick Powerrr, but they start a federal case on AEW about the slightest undercard "transgression".

Man, tell me about it. For months every little bit of AEW business was over scrutinized, the Librarians are turning people away, it's the worst gimmick ever, most guys here are pale indie geeks not looking like stars, Sonny Kiss is gonna turn people away, the Dark Order is gonna turn people away, comedy is gonna turn people away, Kenny Omega is a geek… but then Tim Storm, complete 54 years old unknown has a ** matches with Nick Aldis, a guy even on-the-verge-of-collapse-ROH had no interest in working with long term, and wow, it's the greatest thing ever. I've heard for years how James Storm was nothing but a TNA reject who never amounted to anything, yet now wow James Storm, same thing for Eli Drake, who's entire character is doing half-Rock half-Austin 15 years after the fact. Add in a bunch of guys no one has ever heard of (not speaking of Eddie Kingston or Homicide), were never big on the indies, but they sure aren't geeks at all, it's like the greatest pro-wrestling show today. Give me a break. 

1 hour ago, War is Raw said:

If I want to watch a 1983 studio show, I will watch the JCP archives. If I want to watch a "what if Nitro  was never cancelled" show I watch AEW Dynamite (because unlike NWA, it actually progressed the timeline.)

This. AEW is old-school in that it is doing the basics : build characters and feuds that make sense, focus on matches. But AEW is contemporary and looks toward the present and the futur.

The "We can't call it cosplay" argument is so ridiculous. Every bit of the presentation SCREAMS cosplay. The credits with the VCR quality, a song by Dokken. For fuck's sake, DOKKEN ! The font, the color scheme, the furniture. It's not "old-school", it's just retro. And it's not done tongue-in-cheek like Swinger's gimmick in IMPACT (which is funny as hell) and doesn't tweek the presentation. It's done to be as faithful as it can to the original. That's the nature of cosplay. Of course the workers aren't gonna dress up like old workers, although they kinda do in a way, Tim Storm looks like, well, Tim Horner in SMW in 1994, but the context of the show is cosplay and that's what Billy Corgan wants. Hell, you can argue Billy Corgan has been cosplaying his own old band for 15 years now too, but that's another matter.

1 hour ago, War is Raw said:

I was always a huge fan, but have taken a break since he went after Riho, of all people. My friends in the Philippines met her when she was passing through and said she really is a nice, humble person. What you see on TV is how she is. Does not deserve the race, gender, and size discrimination from him. Omega doesn't deserve his wrath either. Even see Kenny at a signing? The guy acts like the nicest guy on earth.

I did not know he went after Riho. Well, that's sad. 

1 hour ago, War is Raw said:

Bottom line is he's carny and intellectually dishonest. I understand people need brands and followers. But his "logic" is gatekeeping, cultish, and deceitful especially due to his outlines "philosophy". Dave exposed it to him but Jim denied it, but we have evidence that old timers didn't think Race, Flair, and Funk were "realistic workers". Once you accept that, nothing Jim says makes sense about modern wrestling.

The irony is that part of his alleged philosophies are in line with his boogeymen, Vince Russo and Eric Bischoff: only book people who look like TV superstars and controversy creates cash.

Totally agree. And the guys needs a reality check : the Young Bucks and Kenny Omega are stars. Nick Aldis is a guy playing a star. That's the difference.

BTW, Corgan said that this show is not sustainable financialy in its current form unless they get some TV deal. Meanwhile, Joey Ryan is making a living out of indies. One is cosplay. One is working.

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Just starting in on this thread but I think EL-P kind of captures my thoughts on this, he just put it in better words.  I was thinking this was a like a dream/flashback sequence you'd see on like a sitcom where current people get transported back in time & are placed on a replica of that time frame.  Yes, cosplay is a good word for it.  I can totally appreciate the expense that went into this and agree that it came across extremely well but yeah it's 2019.  I kind of feel the same way watching this as when I stopped going to local indies.  I have hundreds of unwatched DVDs of people doing 80s style in the 80s that I haven't watched, with people I am familiar with from that timeframe doing that style.  I don't have time to watch current (mostly unknown) people doing a retro style.  I kind of feel like "what's the point" if you can't do something progressive.

 

But all that said, this is something different and I hope they do get a TV outlet so those involved can justify the time & expense that went into this and it can be another option for the boys & the fans.

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I enjoyed the show a lot but I do agree with the cosplay argument a lot. I really don't know where they plan to go with this show. I can't imagine them getting picked up by a channel or being able to use this to draw big enough crowds to sustain them. 

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