The Cancellation of Jim Cornette

[El-P]

7 hours ago, C.S. said:

Not using it as a derogatory term, just identifying - correctly - that an uneducated Southern redneck what most people stereotype wrestling fans as. Right or wrong (obviously wrong, in PWO's case), that is how non-fans tend to view us.

What's interesting since we're speaking about Jim Cornette, is that that's exactly how Jim Cornette himself perceived his SMW audience, as Meltz mentioned after the New Jack episode of Dark Side. The fact Corny played on his audience supposed (actual, I guess) racism with the Gangstas really showed the disdain he had for the people he was selling his shit too.

What Corny hates about the Young Bucks, Omega and the bunch, is that they and their fans are one and the same. They know. They are aware and they are smart enough to play off of that. This is what the whole "killing the business" comes from. Corny longs for the days when pro-wrestling fans were actually "uneducated Southern rednecks". 

[gordi]

I don't think that my experience here (I've been living in Japan for 11 years) has been entirely typical, but I very often wear pro wrestling t-shirts in the gym and walking around on days off and when I go drinking (and I wear my beloved AJPW jacket whenever the weather is suitable) and I often get compliments and positive comments and I've even made friends with people that I met that way. Everybody who knows me at all well (fiends, family, drinking buddies, people who go to the same gym, the staff at my local Starbucks and favourite sake bar, my adult students...) all know that I love pro wrestling. Anyone who also likes pro wrestling is - invariably - delighted to meet a gaijin who knows something about Japanese wrestling. I have never, ever, had the sense that anyone here looked down on me at all because I love wrestling. My private students have included surgeons, lawyers, university professors... none of them seem to have a negative take on it at all. It gets a very similar response to my love of Japanese sake. People are generally just pleased that I have an interest in some aspect of Japanese culture.

[NintendoLogic]

If the South Park episode is any indication, the wrestling fans as rednecks stereotype still holds plenty of currency.

[PhilTLL]

17 minutes ago, NintendoLogic said:

If the South Park episode is any indication, the wrestling fans as rednecks stereotype still holds plenty of currency.

That episode is over 10 years old now. In the 2010s the wrestling fanbase really started turning into a "fandom," and in my limited observation it's less redneck-ish than before. (I wish it weren't, but that's another topic.)

[Johnny Sorrow]

6 hours ago, NintendoLogic said:

If the South Park episode is any indication, the wrestling fans as rednecks stereotype still holds plenty of currency.

Colorado is full of rednecks, just not southern ones.

[MoS]

Wonder if Corny will cut a promo on CAC

[Loss]

Baffled me a little, but it could be for a variety of reasons beyond his WCW title reign. Arquette is supposedly a great human being and has a real love for wrestling. Almost everyone who worked in WCW at the time, even those who hated the booking, defend him strongly on a personal level.

[gordi]

This will be an interesting read for anyone thinking about Arquette right now. 

[Boondocks Kernoodle]

"Lifetime membership" in the CAC just means Arquette paid them $312. Any one of us could purchase the same membership.

[KawadaSmile]

On 4/25/2020 at 12:35 AM, C.S. said:

This just turned into a very interesting discussion...

@KawadaSmile @El-P, I know you are two of our international members. How is wrestling perceived in your countries?

It has even worse acceptation here in Brazil. We used to enjoy MMA quite a bit when Anderson Silva was reigning supreme, and why go for fake shit when you can see people getting busted up for real? That's the macho stuff.

It is very underground, and the BR fandom is full of the worst fucking opinions (Roman sucks and Ziggler is awesome!!!), but the personal profiles go all over the place. Wild, wild shit.

It does seem to attract a bit more of them bolsominion creeps though.

[cad]

Yes, it's a shame more of them can't be blind fanboys who interact with the rest of the world solely to hammer us over the head with their banal opinions.
Because that way they'd at least hold the right beliefs, like that year seven will finally be the year that Big Rome becomes the Steve Austin that we all know he has inside of him.

[C.S.]

1 hour ago, cad said:

Yes, it's a shame more of them can't be blind fanboys who interact with the rest of the world solely to hammer us over the head with their banal opinions.
Because that way they'd at least hold the right beliefs, like that year seven will finally be the year that Big Rome becomes the Steve Austin that we all know he has inside of him.

Weird post...

@KawadaSmile is no "blind fanboy" and his opinions are far from "banal" - even if we don't always agree - and WWE hasn't tried to make Roman Reigns the next Steve Austin in ages.

[KawadaSmile]

On 4/28/2020 at 10:49 PM, cad said:

Yes, it's a shame more of them can't be blind fanboys who interact with the rest of the world solely to hammer us over the head with their banal opinions.
Because that way they'd at least hold the right beliefs, like that year seven will finally be the year that Big Rome becomes the Steve Austin that we all know he has inside of him.

Found the Roman hater!

 

On 4/28/2020 at 11:56 PM, C.S. said:

Weird post...

@KawadaSmile is no "blind fanboy" and his opinions are far from "banal" - even if we don't always agree - and WWE hasn't tried to make Roman Reigns the next Steve Austin in ages.

The point - which indeed was poorly written - was more that people are stuck in mindsets from 5 to 6 years ago and often are parroting the same things. Everyone around here in Brazil is stuck in the past in unhealthy ways.

It's not just people saying that the Usos suck, but that Rock 'n' Sock Connection or Brothers of Destruction are vastly better.

People are saying Roman must be kept strong, which indeed was a point of discussion in 2016, but not in 2020. I wish that were the case! Dude's spent the last three years doing absolutely nothing!

[C.S.]

48 minutes ago, KawadaSmile said:

It's not just people saying that the Usos suck, but that Rock 'n' Sock Connection or Brothers of Destruction are vastly better. 

Well...

I would honestly rather see Rock 'n' Sock Connection or Brothers of Destruction. (I mean in their primes, not necessarily now.) They connect with me as characters, as acts, and in the ring. 

The Usos are completely insufferable and intolerable to me - horrid gear, obnoxious attitudes (even as faces), irritating catchphrases, I could go on and on...

Are they decent hands in the ring? Sure. Have I ever been given one single, solitary reason to care about any of their matches or them personally? Not at all. Part of that is WWE de-emphasizing the importance of tag team wrestling, sure, but the other part of it is that I simply cannot stand The Usos. 

[KawadaSmile]

16 minutes ago, C.S. said:

Well...

I would honestly rather see Rock 'n' Sock Connection or Brothers of Destruction. (I mean in their primes, not necessarily now.) They connect with me as characters, as acts, and in the ring. 

The Usos are completely insufferable and intolerable to me - horrid gear, obnoxious attitudes (even as faces), irritating catchphrases, I could go on and on...

Are they decent hands in the ring? Sure. Have I ever been given one single, solitary reason to care about any of their matches or them personally? Not at all. Part of that is WWE de-emphasizing the importance of tag team wrestling, sure, but the other part of it is that I simply cannot stand The Usos. 

This is all fair and all because you recognize The Usos' worth as wrestlers. That doesn't happen in what I mentioned.

RnS and BOD, before anything else, are well formed main eventers who eventually tagged together. They didn't really provide anything remotely close to high-end Uso matches in terms of tag team stuff, but breaking them down into singles? Give me The Rock or Foley anytime, but them tagging? I'd rather stick to The Usos, who despite only really working as a tag team, do have that formula down to a tee. Really wish they went back to using that Tequila Sunrise/Superkick combo, though.

[C.S.]

33 minutes ago, KawadaSmile said:

This is all fair and all because you recognize The Usos' worth as wrestlers. That doesn't happen in what I mentioned.

RnS and BOD, before anything else, are well formed main eventers who eventually tagged together. They didn't really provide anything remotely close to high-end Uso matches in terms of tag team stuff, but breaking them down into singles? Give me The Rock or Foley anytime, but them tagging? I'd rather stick to The Usos, who despite only really working as a tag team, do have that formula down to a tee. Really wish they went back to using that Tequila Sunrise/Superkick combo, though.

I agree with your assessment. I would not call RnS or BoD high-end tag teams like a Hart Foundation or British Bulldogs or E&C/Hardys/Dudleys or...I could name a hundred more teams, but you get the idea.

[NotJayTabb]

While working from home, I've been listening to a lot more podcasts, and for the most part, Cornette's Drive Thru is really good listening. As people have said before, when it comes to wrestling history or stories from the old days of wrestling, Cornette is hard to beat, and I've really enjoyed listening to him. 

When it comes to other matters though, you really wish he'd not be so quick to give his opinion. For example, his views on Becky Lynch being pregnant:

“You can’t always be on top of the wrestling business in a $1 million a year spot or more, but you can [have a baby] — what is she? Can she be 30? Well, still she’s got many more years before the f*cking Easy Bake Oven gets shut off. She can have all those problems like a descended stomach and stretch marks and hemorrhoids and hormones problems and mood swings and all those other joys of motherhood later on WHEN SHE AIN’T MAKING A MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR!!! She’s got plenty of time left. What would you do if your wife came home and said instead of making a million dollars next year I’m gonna basically just be a raging bitch for the next nine months and then give you more shit to worry about around the house?!”

I know this pales in comparison to other things Jim has said in the past, but man he comes across as an ignorant arsehole here. 

[MoS]

I love how he presumes the father had no agency or joy in the child being born. 

[daveprazak]

Or the fact that the mother and the father are already financially set for life, and the lives of the human beings involved in the situation are incredibly more important at this stage than what they choose to do to earn income.

[FMKK]

Who cares about your stupid relationships and pregnancies? Everyone's priorities should be da business.

[Petey]

3 hours ago, MoS said:

I love how he presumes the father had no agency or joy in the child being born. 

I think Jim's opinion is probably influenced, to a great deal, by the fact that he has no kids and I get the sense, doesn't really like them or understand why people would want them. I'm in my early 30s and don't have children but even I can understand why people want them. It's not out of the ordinary for someone, regardless of success level, to have children. What a weird thing to get bent out of shape about but everyone knows it's Corny.

[MoS]

It's so unnecessary. He might not get having kids but it was so obvious how much that meant to Becky. Plus, WWE today is not WWE in the late 90s - early 2000s. If Becky wants, she can come back full-time after having the kid - hell, if one of them has to be a stay-at-home parent, I would much rather Seth take that role and get off my TV. 

[rovert]

9 minutes ago, MoS said:

It's so unnecessary. He might not get having kids but it was so obvious how much that meant to Becky. Plus, WWE today is not WWE in the late 90s - early 2000s. If Becky wants, she can come back full-time after having the kid - hell, if one of them has to be a stay-at-home parent, I would much rather Seth take that role and get off my TV. 

Also, WWE wrestlers aren't paid on the house anymore like in Jim's day. They've downside guarantees in their contracts and WWE is in the TV/digital content business, not the traditional Pro Wrestling business.

[El-P]

I don't give a flying fuck about kids, people having kids, people congratulating each others for having kids (like they are accomplishing something special... helloooooo), and even I think Corny comes off like a total ignorant, petty and misogynistic douchebag here.

[Loss]

It was a baffling thing to say. And the idea that they should have worked an injury angle and hidden her pregnancy -- that might have worked 30 years ago, but there's no way it would in 2020 when information flows so freely. The world has changed, and he refuses to accept it. The things he loathes are a mix of the world changing and incompetence from people who produce pro wrestling, and he often conflates the two. Even the idea that they conceal that Seth Rollins isn't single so they don't hurt his appeal to women is such an outdated lens. You can debate whether it's for better or worse, but it's just not what wrestling is now.

So many of his criticisms about how modern wrestling is presented I agree with, but the idea that you can hide things from fans just doesn't fly anymore. You can bemoan that, which he has done, or you can come up with a paradigm shift that acknowledges that, which he is incapable of doing.