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3 hours ago, El-P said:

Does the NWA really have the money to throw around to get someone like Scurll, who's badly needed by ROH and whom AEW and WWE will probably go after ? Scurll would be right at home with the rest of the Elite, hopefully that's where he ends up. I really enjoy his work, but ROh really isn't on my radar at all.

I suspect NWA has more money than we think. They did manage to get Eli Drake and a couple of others you'd figure there'd be outside interest in. (Or is Drake a backstage headache or something?) 

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I'd be stunned if Scurll stayed with ROH. They had plenty of occasions to put the title on him and they didn't. Scurll would be better suited in AEW or the NWA than  in ROH.

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6 minutes ago, C.S. said:

They did manage to get Eli Drake and a couple of others you'd figure there'd be outside interest in. (Or is Drake a backstage headache or something?) 

Drake asked for his release from IMPACT because he did not want to work with Tessa and they let him go, so that's as much as they valued him (granted, they totally fucked up with Kross & Scarlett). I dunno, is there really that much interest for guys like James Storm, Aaron Stevens or Ken Anderson in 2019 ? Older TNA guys, WWE comedy guy… 

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On 11/10/2019 at 9:27 PM, WingedEagle said:

If I can't/won't sit through BJW death matches should I make the time for Omega/Moxley or skip it entirely?

Update: I made it until one of them broke out a piece of glass to cut the other with.  Just not what I watch wrestling for.

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6 hours ago, WingedEagle said:

Update: I made it until one of them broke out a piece of glass to cut the other with.  Just not what I watch wrestling for.

So you'll never watch the ultimate classic that is Headhunter A vs Headhunter B from IWA Japan, in Korakuen. Where the crowd is chanting B ! B ! B ! B ! B ! when A is cutting is own brother's forehead with glass, and believe me, that was actual glass, not the sugary stuff they probably used here (and again, good for them, the just need the visual effect). The 90's japanese sleaze was so awesome before everyone was bumping daily on a thousand lightbulbs...

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Omega-Mox was also more viscerally brutal and intense than most WWE street fights/hardcore matches in the last decade, which is one reason it felt a bit excessive, although it was also the reason it was so gripping for the people who were into it. 

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21 hours ago, C.S. said:

I feel no one is discussing the possibility of Marty Scurll ending up in the NWA. He and Nick Aldis are legitimately best friends, and they had a match for the NWA Worlds Heavyweight Title last year. 

Marty teased that at the end of a recent Vlog of his.

19 hours ago, Coffey said:

I wouldn't be surprised if, despite the Sinclair backings, ROH is dead in two years.

ROH has interesting plans in 2020. They haven't been announced yet so I will just say expect a lot of live TV specials. But yeah I have a lot of concerns.

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17 hours ago, SirEdger said:

I'd be stunned if Scurll stayed with ROH. They had plenty of occasions to put the title on him and they didn't. Scurll would be better suited in AEW or the NWA than  in ROH.

I strongly suggest not to be. They are offering talent a lot of money and their signing budget for 2020 is larger than the 2019 one.

Also, Marty has signed 3 month and 6 month length deals in the past. He probably will be worth more to AEW or NXT in March or June time say when both promotions are looking for something new or a boost. AEW and especially Cody are running though matches and feuds than they probably should be. If he joined "tomorrow" he could get lost in the mix. 

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The thing is, wrestling is supposed to be entertainment. I have no idea how someone with a healthy moral compass can find guys trying to mutilate each other with barbed wire and broken glass entertaining. When I made that argument on the F4W board, someone said that I couldn't find it objectionable because there was violence in the Iliad. No wonder society as a whole holds wrestling and its fans in such low regard.

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13 minutes ago, NintendoLogic said:

The thing is, wrestling is supposed to be entertainment. I have no idea how someone with a healthy moral compass can find guys trying to mutilate each other with barbed wire and broken glass entertaining. When I made that argument on the F4W board, someone said that I couldn't find it objectionable because there was violence in the Iliad. No wonder society as a whole holds wrestling and its fans in such low regard.

...he says with a black metal meme avatar.

My issues with the match lie in two parts: a) I really hate Kenny Omega and his stupid weeb schtick, and b) it fell into the same problem most deathmatches do where it goes from violent setpiece to violent setpiece without much connective tissue to keep things interesting.

To put it in musical terms, I love death metal and especially brutal/tech death metal, but I want more Suffocation or Dying Fetus and less Disgorge or Rings of Saturn. The formers use their ability and skills to craft bone-breaking soundscapes of violence with good flow and rhythm while the latters are just trying to show off.

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1 hour ago, rovert said:

I strongly suggest not to be. They are offering talent a lot of money and their signing budget for 2020 is larger than the 2019 one.

Also, Marty has signed 3 month and 6 month length deals in the past. He probably will be worth more to AEW or NXT in March or June time say when both promotions are looking for something new or a boost. AEW and especially Cody are running though matches and feuds than they probably should be. If he joined "tomorrow" he could get lost in the mix. 

In January or February, he could conceivably debut as the difference maker for The Elite in their feud with Inner Circle. That's still got plenty of juice so there's really no need to rush him in until that starts to lose a little steam.

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With Cody being reportedly out of the picture until January 2020 due to injury, I wonder if it wouldn't accelerate AEW's plans of bringing in Marty. But in hindsight, I think you're right. No need to rush him in until they really need to give viewers some drama in that rivalry.

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4 hours ago, NintendoLogic said:

I have no idea how someone with a healthy moral compass can find guys trying to mutilate each other with barbed wire and broken glass entertaining. 

They are not trying to mutilate each others. And what's the difference between this and the thousands blade jobs Dusty or Flair did in their careers ? Omega and Mox will most probably end up with much less ugly scars than these two when it's all said and done.

And really, pro-wrestling destroys bodies anyway. Hogan dropping the leg drop a thousand times destroyed his hips. The bumps, even the most basics ones, are destroying these guys bodies in the long run. Pro-wrestling isn't healthy. Most guys end up broken down. Tanahashi, probably one of the most brillant storyteller in the history of pro-wrestling, is completely shot at 40 some years old. Bumping on fake glass once of twice is not doing much more damage, really. Pro-wrestling conveys violence. So, here goes the moral compass to begin with… 

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I think the moral line between "trying to mutilate" someone with gimmicked weaponry and Jake Roberts putatively driving someone's head back into their shoulder blades with a DDT is mighty thin, if it exists at all. 

 

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Can someone please tell Earl Hebner to retire? Or at least AEW should stop booking him for their PPVs. I suppose Hebner would still be fine in a match with two veterans who do a "bullshit" match with 2 or 3 bumps, but please don't put him in with Joey Janella, who had to tell Hebner to get out of the way at least three times. There is only one thing, that Hebner should do for AEW: teach Aubrey Edwards how to dramatically throw a heel manager out of the arena.

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So I checked out Cody/Jericho, and it mostly delivered. Off the top of my head, the closest comparison I can think of is Flair/Luger with the way it combined classic wrestling with bells and whistles. It was far from perfect, but it was a near 30-minute match that kept my attention the whole time and never made me roll my eyes, which is a near miracle in this day and age. Definitely the second-best match in AEW history. Cody is looking like the clear wrestler of the year, which would have been inconceivable to me at the beginning of the year.

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On 11/12/2019 at 10:37 AM, rovert said:

I strongly suggest not to be. They are offering talent a lot of money and their signing budget for 2020 is larger than the 2019 one.

Also, Marty has signed 3 month and 6 month length deals in the past. He probably will be worth more to AEW or NXT in March or June time say when both promotions are looking for something new or a boost. AEW and especially Cody are running though matches and feuds than they probably should be. If he joined "tomorrow" he could get lost in the mix. 

 

ROH always seems to have plans for the future but not much seems to materialize.  I don't see Sinclair outbidding AEW or especially WWE if the interest is there from either side (and I would think it's a lock at least one of them have interest), and even if the money's close, I don't see any reason for someone with star potential to waste any significant time in ROH these days. If you're going to take big money from a morally questionable corporation only to not get used properly, might as well just go to to WWE where at least people will see you. 

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On 11/12/2019 at 11:17 AM, NintendoLogic said:

The thing is, wrestling is supposed to be entertainment. I have no idea how someone with a healthy moral compass can find guys trying to mutilate each other with barbed wire and broken glass entertaining. When I made that argument on the F4W board, someone said that I couldn't find it objectionable because there was violence in the Iliad. No wonder society as a whole holds wrestling and its fans in such low regard.

Pro wrestling is a bad form of entertainment to raise moral objections over violence. And, IMHO, so is making a judgment on a wrestling board saying fans of Mox vs Omega have unhealthy morals. It is similar to going on an MMA or boxing forum and crying "you evil men are supporting human cockfighting". Both men are consenting adults and have no ill-will to each other in real life. They discussed their limitations and lines were drawn beforehand. Kahn oversaw everything. It's similar to an bondage session. Moxley promised violence and fulfilled his advertisement. If the match was tame like Seth vs Bray, fans would be displeased and there would be real fallout.

Moxley-Omega was more bells + whistles and smoke + mirrors than infamous Japanese deathmatches or backyard wrestling stunts. 

Nothing compared to Funk vs Sabu in 1997 ECW where the barbed wire entangled their clothes and skin. FMW? CZW? I heard there were more dangerous matches last month. 

Those types of matches are not entertaining to me either, but I leave morality and judging others out of it. Mox and Omega was more comical and safe compared to the real nasty stuff.

You know that match you said was the second best in AEW history? Cody vs Jericho? It resulted in a separated rib and 8 stitches . Actual, real damage. Jericho went after the head and used the Liontamer on an injured opponent because he's a heel. Both men are considered professional for finishing the match, and Cody is considered courageous and tough. Cody refused to stop the match. Cody's stitches came out on Wed with worked punches, so certainly finishing the match did more damage than necessary.

 

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Totally agree with @War is Raw  

I’m surprised at the amount of pearl clutching I’m seeing over the Mox/Omega match. Guys are doing way worse to each other for a spot of a show that drew 20 people and a hot dog. These guys got paid well, and neither are in a position where the had to do the match. They obviously wanted to do that sort of thing. 

If you’re worried about maintaining a “healthy moral compass”, you may need to find a new hobby. In the grand scheme of “sketchy things a wrestling promotion has done”, I’d say that match is pretty fucking low on the list. 

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My main issue with deathmatch/garbage wrestling isn't the danger involved, although that is a concern. What it comes down to is that I find the use of things like barbed wire and mousetraps as weapons, even in gimmicked form, inherently barbaric. They're not items that would normally be at ringside, and the pain they inflict isn't the kind of incapacitating pain that would put someone down for a three-count. Wrestlers using them on each other is far removed from a simulated combat sport or even a simulated street fight. It's closer to a simulated human cockfight.

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3 hours ago, NintendoLogic said:

My main issue with deathmatch/garbage wrestling isn't the danger involved, although that is a concern. What it comes down to is that I find the use of things like barbed wire and mousetraps as weapons, even in gimmicked form, inherently barbaric. They're not items that would normally be at ringside, and the pain they inflict isn't the kind of incapacitating pain that would put someone down for a three-count. Wrestlers using them on each other is far removed from a simulated combat sport or even a simulated street fight. It's closer to a simulated human cockfight.

...and? The meta-narrative inherent to that brand of wrestling is "look how much pain we can stand," not "look how effective our moves are." While I'm with you in disliking it because it does stretch the suspension of disbelief (as no, a barbed wire broom is not going to win a legitimate street fight), the match was entirely built on Moxley's known deathmatch history and how he was going to use it to break Omega on live Pay-Per-View. The barbarity was the point.

Does this mean people who enjoyed it are of lower morality than those who enjoy more basic pro wrestling, when deathmatches have lower rates of both serious injury and even mortality than normal wrestling?

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