AEW Dynamite Week 10 - Dec 4, 2019

[MoS]

I understand people beong skeptical of too many cult orders, but I really enjoyed today's episode of Dynamite. I thought it did a great job of mixing excellent wrestling with promos and interviews that were not just entertaining but also led to meaningful consequences. I guess maybe because Dark Order is being made more and more self-conscious and are not being treated as seriously, I don't mind the Brandi and Kong act. 

[SirEdger]

I mean I can buy Brandi's explanation for their act (doing the dirty work no one wants to do) but it still feels too close to what The Dark Order is like. They should've found a way to work the pledge thing differently.

[Migs]

11 hours ago, Tim Evans said:

They should build the whole women's division around Kris Statlander now that she's signed. Such a star.

+1. She's great and didn't seem uncomfortable at all on the big stage. 

[Stiva]

The opening tag was absolutely great. Dustin coming to AEW and keeping step with everyone is a testament to just how good he is and he matched up brilliantly with Sammy Guevara. That's a singles I need to see more of. I'll admit to being the low vote on The Young Bucks prior to AEW but they really do work as a TV tag team where they can put together hot tags and get guys over.

[Blehschmidt]

I'm with you all on Statlander, but I wish they hadn't beat Shida to do it. She was the only other female on the roster that seemed to be gaining any momentum.

[Slasher]

Don't despair, I am sure she will make the rankings next week!

[SirEdger]

I hope that what they're trying to do is to build multiple options to challenge Riho for the next PPV, whether in February or March. I was as stunned as anyone to see Statlander go over Shida but if there's somebody they can build on in the Women's division, it's Kris Statlander. I think Shida will recover just fine.

[MoS]

So apparently, no one liked the Brandi Kong angle. I did not mind it, but it seems to be one angle that has absolutely fallen flat. Given they are already plugging Nightmare Collective's merchandise, I don't know if they can change plans but I'm hoping they listen to the feedback.

[sek69]

I didn't hate it, but I was surprised to see people comparing it to the Dark Order when it was like the Straight Edge Society with Brandi and Kong as Punk and Gallows. 

[SirEdger]

The comparison with Dark Order comes from the fact that it's both a cult-like mentality. Of course, The Nightmare Collective screamed Straight Edge Society but when you have something like Dark Order that took some time to get off the ground and is finally getting some momentum, don't slap a similar gimmick on TV. Hell, I think the mistake was to actually try creating a stable out of it. Brandi could've done the exact same promo, almost word for word, without mentioning The Nightmare Collective and I think it would've worked better. Just say that she and Kong are willing to do the dirty work no one else wants to do, period.

[SirEdger]

Ratings are in: AEW Dynamite got 851 000 viewers against 845 000 for NXT. Very interesting as opposed to last week.

[El-P]

So, last week meant zilch. Interesting.

About all those wacky cult gimmicks, you know what, I for one love the fact AEW already has moved clear away from "sports oriented" approach and embraces the sillier aspect of pro-wrestling. More Lucha Undergound/BTE, less Mid-South fetish ! Yay !

[gordi]

I read somewhere, someone joking that Dark Order, Nightmare Collective, and the Butcher the Blade & the Bunny all being dressed-in-black and goth-y was so that they would sell more t-shirts at Hot Topic.

That actually makes perfect sense to me. 

Maybe one group is goth, one is emo, and one is vampire? Down the road, they can start feuding by calling each other poseurs. 

[Blehschmidt]

8 hours ago, gordi said:

I read somewhere, someone joking that Dark Order, Nightmare Collective, and the Butcher the Blade & the Bunny all being dressed-in-black and goth-y was so that they would sell more t-shirts at Hot Topic.

That actually makes perfect sense to me. 

Maybe one group is goth, one is emo, and one is vampire? Down the road, they can start feuding by calling each other poseurs. 

So long as one of them are drinking Clamato Juice, I am totally in for this feud....per say

[El-P]

Ok. Now I want this feud to happen and Marko Stunt to play Butters.

[War is Raw]

Young Bucks & Dustin Rhodes vs. Santana & Ortiz & Sammy Guevara: Opened at 893,000  
Rey Fenix vs. Trent lost 76,000  
Cody promo gained 53,000  
Dark Order video/Nyla Rose vs. Leva Bates lost 76,000
Chris Jericho promo/beginning of Kris Statlander vs. Hikaru Shida gained 115,000  
End of Statlander vs. Shida/ the Kong & Brandi Rhodes angle lost 46,000 

Pentagon Jr. vs. Christopher Daniels lost 38,000 

Joey Janela vs. Jon Moxley gained 11,000 
Finished with 851,000 

[MoS]

They really need to kickstart the Cody-MJF feud. Cody has basically not been utilised at all since Full Gear, and now it's been 2 weeks since MJF has had a mic. MJF-Vodu segments will surely do more numbers than Dark Order vignettes. I really don't know why they are sticking with that group so loyally. 

The quarter numbers seem to confirm that Jericho is the only true star in AEW. Now that the Elite have put over so many wrestlers, they need to start putting themselves over and becoming stars as well. 

[Yo-Yo's Roomie]

It's really unforgivable to start running this Brandi recruiting people angle when they just started doing something similar with the Dark Order (and doing so in a cool way with those commercials). I'd be pissed if I was the Dark Order.

I enjoy this show, but I wish they had better wrestling, or at least more variety in the way people work. That Trent/Fenix match made me want to rip my eyes out. Utter dogshit. Even Dustin Rhodes is doing Canadian Destroyers for fuck's sake. 

[Slasher]

AEW seems to be booking entirely for the fanbase they see at indy shows, but with a better TV deal. So they're not making TNA type mistakes (WWE lite) but they are starting to feel like they are gonna be something possibly as bad. I've watched every week of AEW up til a week after Full Gear but now I've not seen an episode and I don't feel like I'm missing anything.

[War is Raw]

Just some random thoughts:

Cody and Khan believe in giving wrestlers a year to get over. Dusty himself said that is the time it takes for new acts. Well, in many ways everyone except Jericho, Moxley, and Cody are "new" to TV. Khan is not panicking. It's all about long term booking and building stars. We are 10 weeks in for casuals, with only 2 hours a week.

Everyone is learning on the fly in terms of production and booking. No one in the entire industry knows how to build a new star quickly, if it is possible. Riho and Darby have showed some potential even with inconsistent appearances. It could be argued that casual fans have seen Cody become a star after being an opening act in WWE.

AEW had around 400K fans based on BTE subs and Fyter Fest/Fight for the Fallen, so they have doubled the fanbase thanks to Dynamite. The new fans are the ones who are changing the channel, which is causing the volatility in ratings and the fact that "new" acts aren't getting over. They have been conditioned by WWE to watch established stars.

Sad part about all of this, is it seems Russo, Cornette, and Disco are right (so far): only the hardcore fans are left and they killed the industry by overvaluing workrate/highspots instead of valuing star power/looks/characters.

The good news is TNT just wanted 500K to start, and Dynamite is their best show on Wed. They will keep them. Demo is good.

Last week, Cody's squash lost viewers and so did MJF vs Page. I heard a rumor MLW would not let MJF on TV this week.

Moxley had more gains wrestling Darby than against Joey Janela.

Jericho's Thanksgiving bomb and his Darby match bomb puts Moxley ahead of him as the biggest draw IMHO, but it is splitting hairs. Yes, Jericho can carry the whole show at 9PM and 10PM but can can be overexposed with his silliness if not careful. Even Cody has had losses. Mox has been unbelievable.

For those who want "sports based", Khan tried giving straight matches in the first couple of episodes and everyone complained they needed more promos, videos, and angles. So he did that and now the accusation is that it's WCW/TNA. "Damned if they do, damned if they don't". Bottom line is the interviews and angles with the stars score big. The opening technical matches do well. Omega vs Pac later in the show last week did fantastic. But the star power isn't there yet outside a few.

I see the complaints about the Dark Order, Brandi, and Bunny stables as akin to the federal case made during the Fyter Fest Buy-In: the loyal fans will spit on any obvious sports-entertainment/cringe comedy/indie gimmick. I don't see all three as cults IMHO. Every league needs groups. Might as well form them now. Allie bombed as a face wrestler. New gimmick fits her better. Dark Order- although good in the ring- bombed with fans, so they are now cool for lonely people and gets social media attention. Brandi? I have no defense, save, it gives something for Kong to do since she is too beat up to wrestle frequently. Plus Brandi's frame of reference in wrestling is WWE in the 2010s.

NJPW is mostly matches with a sports presentation, yet I am sure it would be a ratings bomb on TNT. The thing about the high risk gimmicks and angles is that there is a fine line between WWE doing silly stuff, yet indies get away with murder doing silly stuff. I guess because it is "ironic" or "parody" or whatever. But...what's the difference between Chikara invisible grenades and Rusev-Lana-Lashley? Well, the 150 men in attendance pop for the invisible explosion, and the Youtube comments love it. The 4,500 fans boo the cuckold angle, yet they actually have gained viewers many times, and they get great Youtube views as well. IMHO both the grenade and cuckold stuff suck. But at least the AEW groups are more traditional once you get past the outfits and lack of star power.

Heck, I could hotshot a show which would give them over a million viewers using their big names and not even lose viewers for a segment, but it wouldn't help build for the future.

Just my two cents.

[El-P]

9 minutes ago, War is Raw said:

Brandi? I have no defense, save, it gives something for Kong to do since she is too beat up to wrestle frequently.

She was a great valet for Cody and absolutely helped him redefine himself and get over on the indies and NJPW. She's a terrific promo but a passable in-ring wrestler, so manager is her best role. She's also hot as fuck. Put that all together and put her with Kong, who is past her prime but was an amazing (pun intended) worker and just has IT in term of aura and charisma and you've got a winner act to me, as it's the best of both world. The whole kinda New Orleans witch image is also super cool. Gotta love that.

As far as I go, I will always prefer a promotion for the hardcores any day over any kind of mainstream appeal. Hulkamania and Attitude Era sucked in term of in-ring content.

[Slasher]

Well it is true they are doing better than TNT might have expected, so they're here to stay but it is also pretty apparent they have lost a lot of steam. I don't know what they can do to fix it but I'd probably start with not putting Joey Janela in the main event, even if its as a sacrificial lamb for Moxley. Moxley and Jericho (and Cody for a while) are the only guys who look like bonafide stars, and that is something you do need, whether its for the hardcores or mainstream audience (and by the way, by putting it on national television, you kinda have to make it mainstream appealing, you're deluding yourself if you think otherwise).

[rovert]

 

 

 

 

9 hours ago, MoS said:

They really need to kickstart the Cody-MJF feud. Cody has basically not been utilised at all since Full Gear, and now it's been 2 weeks since MJF has had a mic. MJF-Vodu segments will surely do more numbers than Dark Order vignettes. I really don't know why they are sticking with that group so loyally. 

I feel very badly for MJF this is/was the biggest break of his career and it has been largely bungled since his "turn". 

[El-P]

He'll cut a promo next week, he'll be fine.

BTW, two things I haven't seen talked about :

As Nyla was putting both the ref and my girl Shanna through a table, they cut to Dr. Baker in the crowd and Excalibur said in a very matter-of-factish way "That's Dr. Britt Baker. She's Adam Cole's girlfriend". That was pretty funny. 

Also, just as Jericho's hilarious promo was interrupted by the Jurassic Express, was he about to say "Marty Scurll" ? I swear he said "Marty". 

Also, as I am rewatching the Lord of the Ring trilogy, pretty much like every Xmas seasons now, it just hit me : Marko Stunt looks like Frodo.

And also, Luchasaurus namedropping Chretien de Troyes and Eleonore d'Aquitaine on a pro-wrestling show might be the most bizarre and awesome reference ever. What's up with all this French stuff on this show anyway ? (and I also have a master's degree in medieval history, so I have that in common with Luchasaurus, how cool is that ?)

[Stiva]

MJF has cut a promo, advancing the story, including revealing that he paid The Butcher and The Blade to attack Cody, and they only put it on social media. They REALLY need to put this shit on TV